Road accidents involving horses resulted in far more deaths than cars
ever did subsequently.
Seems so, I have a 80 W panel in a window upstairs, could keep my laptop battery full if needed.
Countries with the lowest overall government debt relative to the size of their economies include:
Brunei: ~1.5%
Afghanistan: ~8%
Kuwait: ~14.6%
Russia: ~17.2%
Paul--
--
The New Left are the people they warned you about.
The Natural Philosopher wrote on 10/7/2026 1:05 PM:
--
The New Left are the people they warned you about.
Yes but the New Right has destroyed them and installed a 1000 year
Reich. Sieg Heil! We are most fortunate.
On 07/10/2026 11:54, John Williamson wrote:
On 07/10/2026 11:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-10-07 12:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Hybrids are intended for use in traffic with frequent stops and
On 07/10/2026 09:00, JMB99 wrote:
On 06/10/2026 19:36, Carlos E. R. wrote:Of course not. Hybrids actually are practical and mostly work. And
Do you consider submarines as "Vehicles"? Because they have been
using batteries and continue to do so.
At least most are 'hybrids'. The Greenie purists don't like hybrids. >>>>
certainly reduce urban emissions mightily
And you get a good balance between massive acceleration for e,g,
overtaking and having fun, with decent fuel economy in a stop start
scenario, and no worse economy than a similar turbodiesel etc on a
long constant speed run.
That's the theory. I have been a fan of hybrids for decades. But they
have been perverted: huge cars with tiny batteries that drink gasoline
as cossacks, yet get the ECO label.
starts. The engine only needs enough power to keep it rolling at its
maximum speed. The battery only needs to hold enough energy to help
accelerate it away to the sped limit from a stop once or twice. As the
IC engine is small, it is working at close to its maximum efficiency
most of the time, as against the traditional vehicle engine which is
pretty close to idling except for a few seconds as you pull away for
the lights. This is why the early Toyota Prius taxis could get up to
50 mpg round town and still pull away very quickly. Small engine, big
motor and a battery that was almost fully cycled at every junction.
A well designed hybrid will also recover kinetic energy when you slow
down.
"Plug in" hybrids are, basically, an electric vehicle with a range
extender. They use the IC engine at high speed out of town and the
electric motor in town to reduce local emissions.
For long fast trips out of town, you still need a big engine, and the
battery is more or less a waste of space. A bus company I used to work
for discovered this the expensive way when they bought a batch of
hybrid buses for a new inter town route, The engines were over worked
when they were out of town so they were using more fuel than the
normal ones, and the overload also caused problems witn reliability.
People I know with hybrids say the economy is *no worse* with the hybrid
on a long trip, at fairly steady legal speeds, than an equivalent turbodiesel. It just isn't any *better*.
Where it scores is in town where the regen braking and the ability to
run off the battery alone for stop start crawl until the battery is depleted, when the engine cuts in to recharge the battery.
Typically halving fuel used
Regen braking and no idling is the key
On 07/10/2026 11:06, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-10-07 10:00, JMB99 wrote:You would be surprised how much diesel it takes to sow, weed, fertilise,
On 06/10/2026 19:36, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Do you consider submarines as "Vehicles"? Because they have been
using batteries and continue to do so.
At least most are 'hybrids'. The Greenie purists don't like hybrids.
The Spanish S80 series uses bioethanol :-p
harvest and process a gallon of biodiesel.
chrisv wrote:
Jan Panteltje wrote:
It does.
Not if the supply chain is absolutely owned by China, it doesn't.
Why is this always forgotten? It's the same thing for humanoid robots
and such. Show me that we can make them in our country (or, at least,
a friendly country). *Then* we'll talk.
Well, to me, China is a friendly country,
they make good to very good stuff and cheap.
People I know with hybrids say the economy is *no worse* with the
hybrid on a long trip, at fairly steady legal speeds, than an
equivalent turbodiesel. It just isn't any *better*.
Where it scores is in town where the regen braking and the ability to
run off the battery alone for stop start crawl until the battery is
depleted, when the engine cuts in to recharge the battery.
Some types should do well in hilly country.
--
Typically halving fuel used
Regen braking and no idling is the key
chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid>wrote:
Jan Panteltje wrote:
chrisv wrote:
Jan Panteltje wrote:
It does.
Not if the supply chain is absolutely owned by China, it doesn't.
Why is this always forgotten? It's the same thing for humanoid robots >>>and such. Show me that we can make them in our country (or, at least,
a friendly country). *Then* we'll talk.
Well, to me, China is a friendly country,
they make good to very good stuff and cheap.
Yeah, I know they do. But can't you see the problem in being so
dependant upon one country? An aggressive, communist-ruled country at
that?
The Natural Philosopher wrote:Provided you've got sufficient fertile land for fuel crops left, after
You would be surprised how much diesel it takes to sow, weed,
fertilise, harvest and process a gallon of biodiesel.
By contrast, biomethane could be virtually free.
Graham J wrote:There was a recent article on declining soil quality on farms.
The Natural Philosopher wrote:Provided you've got sufficient fertile land for fuel crops left, after you've grown all your food crops.
You would be surprised how much diesel it takes to sow, weed, fertilise, harvest and process a gallon of biodiesel.
By contrast, biomethane could be virtually free.
And assuming you don't damage soil quality by doing this.
On 27/09/2026 9:52 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 27/09/2026 10:58, Daniel70 wrote:Sorry, I didn't read that into it. ;-)
But isn't 'wire' a form of 'cable'??
In *this* context cable was coaxial RF, wire tended to me more twisted
pair
On 08/10/2026 12:51, Carlos E. R. wrote:[someone else wrote]
Only if you need to use the brakes a lotWhere it scores is in town where the regen braking and the ability to
run off the battery alone for stop start crawl until the battery is
depleted, when the engine cuts in to recharge the battery.
Some types should do well in hilly country.
Typically halving fuel used
Regen braking and no idling is the key
On 2026/10/8 13:4:33, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/10/2026 12:51, Carlos E. R. wrote:[someone else wrote]
If your journey involves about the same amount of uphill and downhill,Only if you need to use the brakes a lotWhere it scores is in town where the regen braking and the ability to
run off the battery alone for stop start crawl until the battery is
depleted, when the engine cuts in to recharge the battery.
Some types should do well in hilly country.
and you're _not_ using the brakes, where is the downhill energy going?
Either engine braking (which is another form of "using the brakes", but
even worse in that it might actually use fuel), or you're accelerating
on the downhill parts and using the speed thus gained to help you on the uphill - makes you a bit dangerous in the valleys.
Typically halving fuel used
Regen braking and no idling is the key
Graham J wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:Provided you've got sufficient fertile land for fuel crops left, after you've grown all your food crops.
You would be surprised how much diesel it takes to sow, weed,
fertilise, harvest and process a gallon of biodiesel.
By contrast, biomethane could be virtually free.
On 01/10/2026 02:36, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2026/9/30 14:58:33, John Williamson wrote:Precisely. You'd think that the fairest approach would be for every work
The official reason is to provide an income for any surviving familyBut surely they've benefited from the earlier works already, and/or
members.
could benefit from the later ones; I agree with NY, it seems illogical
to go from the death rather than the creation.
to be in copyright for the same length of time, during which time sales generate royalties, rather than works produced earlier in life to be in copyright for longer.
The other change I'd like to see to copyright laws is that they lapse if supplies of the work cease because it has gone out of print: ie they
exist to protect sales, and if there are no sales, there is no copyright
to protect and generate royalties from those sales. That is very
different from "moral right to be identified as author" which should
last forever. It would end the "dog-in-a-manger" situation where a book
goes out of print and the copyright holder does not want to make any
more copies, but no-one else is allowed to make copies of it to satisfy
any demand, even if those copies generate royalties to the copyright holder.
At least Crown Copyright on OS maps only lasts 50 years so National
Library of Scotland can publish and maps from 1976 or earlier, which is virtually "yesterday" to my brain ;-)
If he's talking of "free" biomethane, I don't think he's talking about growing (whatever is needed to make) it, I think he's talking about the natural methane from rotting, which otherwise goes to waste (it's made anyway, whether you want it or not). Whether there's enough from that
source to make any difference in the scheme of things, I'm dubious,
though as long as collecting it doesn't actually cost more than it
yields, I think it should be collected.
Jan Panteltje wrote:
chrisv wrote:
Jan Panteltje wrote:
It does.
Not if the supply chain is absolutely owned by China, it doesn't.
Why is this always forgotten? It's the same thing for humanoid robots
and such. Show me that we can make them in our country (or, at least,
a friendly country). *Then* we'll talk.
Well, to me, China is a friendly country,
they make good to very good stuff and cheap.
Yeah, I know they do. But can't you see the problem in being so
dependant upon one country? An aggressive, communist-ruled country at
that?
If communism is such a terrible thing, how come they don't crash?
chrisv wrote:
But can't you see the problem in being so
dependant upon one country? An aggressive, communist-ruled country at
that?
Aggressive? What war have they started? Or gotten into?
Communist? So what? You can raise capitals over there, that's not very >communist.
If communism is such a terrible thing, how come they don't crash?
chrisv wrote:
Jan Panteltje wrote:
Well, to me, China is a friendly country,
they make good to very good stuff and cheap.
Yeah, I know they do. But can't you see the problem in being so
dependant upon one country? An aggressive, communist-ruled country at >>that?
Communist system is a lot better than being ruled by a lunatic
who tries to get countries making war with each other
to fill his own pockets
Communist systems are for the people
(kookery snipped)
chrisv wrote:
Jan Panteltje wrote:
chrisv wrote:Yeah, I know they do. But can't you see the problem in being so
Jan Panteltje wrote:
It does.
Not if the supply chain is absolutely owned by China, it doesn't.
Why is this always forgotten? It's the same thing for humanoid
robots and such. Show me that we can make them in our country (or,
at least, a friendly country). *Then* we'll talk.
Well, to me, China is a friendly country,
they make good to very good stuff and cheap.
dependant upon one country? An aggressive, communist-ruled country at
that?
Aggressive? What war have they started? Or gotten into?
On 08/10/2026 12:51, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Only if you need to use the brakes a lotPeople I know with hybrids say the economy is *no worse* with the
hybrid on a long trip, at fairly steady legal speeds, than an
equivalent turbodiesel. It just isn't any *better*.
Where it scores is in town where the regen braking and the ability to
run off the battery alone for stop start crawl until the battery is
depleted, when the engine cuts in to recharge the battery.
Some types should do well in hilly country.
Typically halving fuel used
Regen braking and no idling is the key
On 08/10/2026 22:02, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2026/10/8 13:4:33, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/10/2026 12:51, Carlos E. R. wrote:[someone else wrote]
If your journey involves about the same amount of uphill and downhill,Only if you need to use the brakes a lotWhere it scores is in town where the regen braking and the ability to >>>>> run off the battery alone for stop start crawl until the battery is
depleted, when the engine cuts in to recharge the battery.
Some types should do well in hilly country.
and you're _not_ using the brakes, where is the downhill energy going?
Do you really not have an answer for that?
You are coasting. The energy goes into the drag just the same as if it
was an EV
I do it all the time.
Either engine braking (which is another form of "using the brakes", butNo. You are coasting. On a manual in neutral, On an auto, it does it 'automatically' (sic!)
even worse in that it might actually use fuel), or you're accelerating
on the downhill parts and using the speed thus gained to help you on the
uphill - makes you a bit dangerous in the valleys.
Typically halving fuel used
Regen braking and no idling is the key
On 07/10/2026 10:42, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-10-07 09:24, c186282 wrote:
On 10/7/26 03:08, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 06/10/2026 19:31, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2026-10-06, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:But just think of all the horse shit
On 06/10/2026 11:33, Paul wrote:
Unlike older vessels, it has a backup power system.
Indeed. Going through e.g. the panama or suez canals would be
impossible
without it
Not really - you just hook up the teams of horses that the
canal administration has standing by to pull you through.
FERTILIZER !!! :-)
Keeping horses in city houses was a pain. My father told me about it.
You have to feed it everyday, even if you are ill and not going
anywhere. Then shovel the shit. Brush it. Then hook it to something
with wheels, or ride it; took sometime to prepare. The horse could
slip in the cobbles and maim itself.
Then the streets were full of shit into which you could tread and smell.
Nah, electric or gasoline cars were a great thing (there were electric
cars before gasoline ones).
Some people complained of the fumes, though. Ugly, noisy, smelly things.
You can never be happy.
Indeed.
Dealing with horseshit in London was a major industry .
Road accidents involving horses resulted in far more deaths than cars
ever did subsequently.
The most common name in London was 'Smith' . From all the farriers and blacksmiths showing the bloody animals
Cars succeeded despite their drawbacks because they were cheaper and
more reliable.
AND NEITHER HORSES NOR CARS WERE MADE MANDATORY OR SUBSIDISED BY THE EU
TO 'PROTECT JOBS' OR 'PROTECT THE ENVIRONMENT'
What worked better succeeded what didn't
Carlos E. R. wrote:
chrisv wrote:
But can't you see the problem in being so
dependant upon one country? An aggressive, communist-ruled country at
that?
Aggressive? What war have they started? Or gotten into?
Communist? So what? You can raise capitals over there, that's not very
communist.
If communism is such a terrible thing, how come they don't crash?
OMG. Every line a master class of ignorance. Hopeless.
Even if they weren't communist, it's still a foreign country that owns
you.
Have fun bowing-down to the CCP. No decent will be allowed.
"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> writes:
chrisv wrote:
Jan Panteltje wrote:
chrisv wrote:Yeah, I know they do. But can't you see the problem in being so
Jan Panteltje wrote:
It does.
Not if the supply chain is absolutely owned by China, it doesn't.
Why is this always forgotten? It's the same thing for humanoid
robots and such. Show me that we can make them in our country (or,
at least, a friendly country). *Then* we'll talk.
Well, to me, China is a friendly country,
they make good to very good stuff and cheap.
dependant upon one country? An aggressive, communist-ruled country at
that?
Aggressive? What war have they started? Or gotten into?
The question was about supply chain risk, and China has shown itself
very willing to exploit its dominance in certain supply chains against
other countries. The rare earth restrictions in particular were widely reported, you’d have to be living under a rock not to be aware of them.
Hopefully the lesson learned is not to depend on any single supplied for
any given resource, rather than to avoid depending solely on China in particular.
On 09/10/2026 11:07, Carlos E. R. wrote:
If communism is such a terrible thing, how come they don't crash?
They did, several years ago, but, being communist, they didn't tell
anyone about it...
Have fun bowing-down to the CCP. No decent will be allowed.
chrisv wrote:
Even if they weren't communist, it's still a foreign country that owns
you.
Have fun bowing-down to the CCP. No dissent will be allowed.
Why should bowing to the USA be better that bowing to to China?
The USA is no longer friendly.
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
If communism is such a terrible thing, how come they don't crash?
They did, several years ago, but, being communist, they didn't tell
anyone about it...
Usually communist countries fail when they are massively attacked by the >USA, not on their own.
On 2026-10-08 14:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:In an automatic car, you do not
Only if you need to use the brakes a lot
No.
In hilly country you first use the motor as a brake,
Here, if you try to coast, you crash eventually.
Coasting on neutral on down slopes is strongly discouraged in driving school. Very, very dangerous.
On 2026-10-09 12:17, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/10/2026 11:07, Carlos E. R. wrote:
If communism is such a terrible thing, how come they don't crash?
They did, several years ago, but, being communist, they didn't tell
anyone about it...
Usually communist countries fail when they are massively attacked by the USA, not on their own.
Richard Kettlewell wrote:
The question was about supply chain risk, and China has shown itself
very willing to exploit its dominance in certain supply chains against
other countries. The rare earth restrictions in particular were widely
reported, youd have to be living under a rock not to be aware of them.
Usually they apply that to countries that are aggressive to them, in >response, not attack.
Hopefully the lesson learned is not to depend on any single supplied for
any given resource, rather than to avoid depending solely on China in
particular.
That's a lost game.
On 09/10/2026 21:20, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-10-08 14:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Only if you need to use the brakes a lot
No.
In hilly country you first use the motor as a brake,
In an automatic car, you do not
On 2026-10-09 12:17, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/10/2026 11:07, Carlos E. R. wrote:
If communism is such a terrible thing, how come they don't crash?
They did, several years ago, but, being communist, they didn't tell
anyone about it...
Usually communist countries fail when they are massively attacked by the
USA, not on their own.
Carlos E. R. wrote:
Hopefully the lesson learned is not to depend on any single supplied
for any given resource, rather than to avoid depending solely on China
in particular.
That's a lost game.
"Nice" attitude.
Coasting on neutral on down slopes is strongly discouraged in driving
school. Very, very dangerous.
On 09/10/2026 21:20, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-10-08 14:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:In an automatic car, you do not
Only if you need to use the brakes a lot
No.
In hilly country you first use the motor as a brake,
End of your thesis.
J. P. Gilliver wrote:
[snip]
If he's talking of "free" biomethane, I don't think he's talking about
growing (whatever is needed to make) it, I think he's talking about the
natural methane from rotting, which otherwise goes to waste (it's made
anyway, whether you want it or not). Whether there's enough from that
source to make any difference in the scheme of things, I'm dubious,
though as long as collecting it doesn't actually cost more than it
yields, I think it should be collected.
We already pay for the collection and disposal (often in landfill) of
this material. That - in the UK - is paid for out of your Council Tax
and the sewage component of your water bill.
Collection and processing in an anaerobic digester to generate methane
could well cost less than what we pay already, so the methane would, in effect, be free.
Carlos E. R. wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
If communism is such a terrible thing, how come they don't crash?
They did, several years ago, but, being communist, they didn't tell
anyone about it...
Usually communist countries fail when they are massively attacked by the
USA, not on their own.
There is no option to attack China.
We won't even be able to stop them from taking Taiwan.
Even if we
could physically stop them, we won't because we are too dependant upon
what they provide for us. Then they'll have the advanced chip
production in their control as well. Even more power over everyone.
Good luck keeping up them in technolgy, or anything else, then!
Carlos E. R. wrote:
chrisv wrote:
Even if they weren't communist, it's still a foreign country that owns
you.
Have fun bowing-down to the CCP. No dissent will be allowed.
Why should bowing to the USA be better that bowing to to China?
If you don't already know the answer to that, you're beyond help.
The USA is no longer friendly.
China is worse. By far.
And they're getting into a position where they have far more leverage
to control other countries than the US ever did. Never before have so
many countries been so dependant upon one. It's already fscking
ridiculous and only getting worse.
I think we're on the same side here. Some local authorities - and I
_think_ it's an increasing number - do already have facilities to
collect that methane; most of the ones I've heard of, use it to make electricity. Whether that produces much surplus once they've used some
of it to run the refuse facilities, I don't know - but, as I said,
unless it actually costs /more/, I'm in favour of doing it; as you say,
why not take something free (or free once you've done what you're
obliged to do anyway)?
But, short of a very nasty 'global reset', what
to DO about it ??? These kinds of thing used to
be solved with regional/world wars. Can't HAVE
those anymore.
Anyway, very SCARY bit ... FAR too many now think
that the most totalitarian rulers would be "better"
in some way shape or form. Where does such STUPIDITY
come from
Carlos E. R. wrote:Not all automatics are slushboxes ...
In hilly country you first use the motor as a brake,
In an automatic car, you do not
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:Not all automatics are slushboxes ...
In hilly country you first use the motor as a brake,
In an automatic car, you do not
On 09/10/2026 21:22, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Here, if you try to coast, you crash eventually.
Coasting on neutral on down slopes is strongly discouraged in driving
school. Very, very dangerous.
Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men
On 09/10/2026 21:20, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-10-08 14:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:In an automatic car, you do not
Only if you need to use the brakes a lot
No.
In hilly country you first use the motor as a brake,
End of your thesis.
On 2026-10-09, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 09/10/2026 21:20, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-10-08 14:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Only if you need to use the brakes a lot
No.
In hilly country you first use the motor as a brake,
In an automatic car, you do not
You can if you want. I often downshift an automatic
on a downhill grade.
On 2026/10/9 22:32:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/10/2026 21:20, Carlos E. R. wrote:No, you snipped the part of his reply about regenerative braking (which
On 2026-10-08 14:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:In an automatic car, you do not
Only if you need to use the brakes a lot
No.
In hilly country you first use the motor as a brake,
End of your thesis.
most petrol/Diesel cars (whether automatic or manual) don't have, or
don't have sufficient battery capacity to use).
Carlos E. R. wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
If communism is such a terrible thing, how come they don't crash?
They did, several years ago, but, being communist, they didn't tell
anyone about it...
Usually communist countries fail when they are massively attacked by the
USA, not on their own.
There is no option to attack China.
We won't even be able to stop them from taking Taiwan. Even if we
could physically stop them, we won't because we are too dependant upon
what they provide for us. Then they'll have the advanced chip
production in their control as well. Even more power over everyone.
Good luck keeping up them in technolgy, or anything else, then!
On 09/10/2026 21:48, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-10-09 12:17, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Not really. Cuba is still going strong. So is Russia, So is North korea.
On 09/10/2026 11:07, Carlos E. R. wrote:
If communism is such a terrible thing, how come they don't crash?
They did, several years ago, but, being communist, they didn't tell
anyone about it...
Usually communist countries fail when they are massively attacked by
the USA, not on their own.
USA hasn't got around to Spain yet so you might be OK
Anyway, very SCARY bit ... FAR too many now think
that the most totalitarian rulers would be "better"
in some way shape or form. Where does such STUPIDITY
come from ??? DID someone dose the water supply in
the 60s ???
On 10/10/2026 12:44, Andy Burns wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:The last one I owned locked the torque converter as soon as the engine exceeded a certain speed.
Carlos E. R. wrote:Not all automatics are slushboxes ...
In hilly country you first use the motor as a brake,
In an automatic car, you do not
On 10/10/26 08:29, John Williamson wrote:
On 10/10/2026 12:44, Andy Burns wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
In hilly country you first use the motor as a brake,
In an automatic car, you do not
Not all automatics are slushboxes ...
The last one I owned locked the torque converter as soon as the engine
exceeded a certain speed.
Well, that's the logical tact. I'd design 'em
to do that. Engines are expensive !
Admittedly, for very hilly areas, manual transmissions
are still maybe still the best solution.
Plus Gen-Z/A2 can't figure out manual trannies :-)
On 10/10/2026 12:44, Andy Burns wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:The last one I owned locked the torque converter as soon as the engine exceeded a certain speed.
Carlos E. R. wrote:Not all automatics are slushboxes ...
In hilly country you first use the motor as a brake,
In an automatic car, you do not
On 2026-10-10, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
Anyway, very SCARY bit ... FAR too many now think
that the most totalitarian rulers would be "better"
in some way shape or form. Where does such STUPIDITY
come from ??? DID someone dose the water supply in
the 60s ???
It goes back way before that. "Mussolini made the trains
run on time."
Admittedly, for very hilly areas, manual transmissions
are still maybe still the best solution.
On 10/10/2026 13:29, John Williamson wrote:
On 10/10/2026 12:44, Andy Burns wrote:But only in one direction
The Natural Philosopher wrote:The last one I owned locked the torque converter as soon as the engine
Carlos E. R. wrote:Not all automatics are slushboxes ...
In hilly country you first use the motor as a brake,
In an automatic car, you do not
exceeded a certain speed.
On 11/10/2026 09:30, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/10/2026 13:29, John Williamson wrote:It locked the flywheel to the gearbox input. If you took your foot off
On 10/10/2026 12:44, Andy Burns wrote:But only in one direction
The Natural Philosopher wrote:The last one I owned locked the torque converter as soon as the engine
Carlos E. R. wrote:Not all automatics are slushboxes ...
In hilly country you first use the motor as a brake,
In an automatic car, you do not
exceeded a certain speed.
the throttle, you got limited engine braking.
On 2026-10-10 01:08, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2026-10-09, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 09/10/2026 21:20, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-10-08 14:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Only if you need to use the brakes a lot
No.
In hilly country you first use the motor as a brake,
In an automatic car, you do not
You can if you want. I often downshift an automatic
on a downhill grade.
The only automatic car I have driven was recently a Fiat 600e that I
rented. Electric. The regenerative brake is brutal.
You can set the cruise controller to 90km/h on a 2000 thousand meter
high sierra, and it will keep the speed both going up or down. I tested it.
The only automatic car I have driven was recently a Fiat 600e that IAre you sure, Carlos??
rented. Electric. The regenerative brake is brutal.
You can set the cruise controller to 90km/h on a 2000 thousand meter
high sierra, and it will keep the speed both going up or down. I
tested it.
DuckDuckGo suggests Mount Everest (highest point on Earth) is only 8,849 mtrs high .... somewhat less than your "2000 thousand meter high
sierra". 😜
Or are you meaning "2000 thousand meter on the high sierra"??
On 11/10/2026 11:15, Daniel70 wrote:
That's not fair! English is not his first language.The only automatic car I have driven was recently a Fiat 600e that IAre you sure, Carlos??
rented. Electric. The regenerative brake is brutal.
You can set the cruise controller to 90km/h on a 2000 thousand meter
high sierra, and it will keep the speed both going up or down. I
tested it.
DuckDuckGo suggests Mount Everest (highest point on Earth) is only
8,849 mtrs high .... somewhat less than your "2000 thousand meter high
sierra". 😜
BUT daily I set my cruise control to 30mph and the only hill within
miles will have the car at 35mph with the engine idling every time I go
down it
Or are you meaning "2000 thousand meter on the high sierra"??
You know what he means: 2000 metre high Sierra
And a typical meter is only about 4cm high and comes with a red lead and
a black lead. :-)
On 2026-10-05 17:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/10/2026 14:19, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Nope. We just remember Chernobyl and Fukushima. Can happen again elsewhere. >> Which had almost no effect on anything.
It had an effect on public opinion.
Details are irrelevant.
On 11/10/2026 4:34 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-10-10 01:08, Charlie Gibbs wrote:Are you sure, Carlos??
On 2026-10-09, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 09/10/2026 21:20, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-10-08 14:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Only if you need to use the brakes a lot
No.
In hilly country you first use the motor as a brake,
In an automatic car, you do not
You can if you want. I often downshift an automatic
on a downhill grade.
The only automatic car I have driven was recently a Fiat 600e that I
rented. Electric. The regenerative brake is brutal.
You can set the cruise controller to 90km/h on a 2000 thousand meter
high sierra, and it will keep the speed both going up or down. I
tested it.
DuckDuckGo suggests Mount Everest (highest point on Earth) is only 8,849 mtrs high .... somewhat less than your "2000 thousand meter high
sierra". ;-P
Or are you meaning "2000 thousand meter on the high sierra"??
On 11/10/2026 9:23 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/10/2026 11:15, Daniel70 wrote:
That's not fair! English is not his first language.The only automatic car I have driven was recently a Fiat 600e that IAre you sure, Carlos??
rented. Electric. The regenerative brake is brutal.
You can set the cruise controller to 90km/h on a 2000 thousand meter
high sierra, and it will keep the speed both going up or down. I
tested it.
DuckDuckGo suggests Mount Everest (highest point on Earth) is only
8,849 mtrs high .... somewhat less than your "2000 thousand meter
high sierra". 😜
Correct .... and the only way he/one can improve themselves is to be corrected when they make an error. Isn't that what Teachers are paid to
do .... Oh, and Parents, too, although their Pay might not be so good. ;-)
BUT daily I set my cruise control to 30mph and the only hill within
miles will have the car at 35mph with the engine idling every time I
go down it
Yeap, I've noticed that as well .... and my car struggles to maintain
the set speed on the way up.
--Or are you meaning "2000 thousand meter on the high sierra"??
You know what he means: 2000 metre high Sierra
And a typical meter is only about 4cm high and comes with a red lead
and a black lead. :-)
Oh!! That must be Modern Tech .... when I used AVO meters (thirty-odd
years ago) they were six cm or more deep. ;-P
But the Red and Black leads were pretty common. (I think I had a Green
lead at one stage.)
On 2026-10-11 12:15, Daniel70 wrote:
On 11/10/2026 4:34 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-10-10 01:08, Charlie Gibbs wrote:Are you sure, Carlos??
On 2026-10-09, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 09/10/2026 21:20, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-10-08 14:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Only if you need to use the brakes a lot
No.
In hilly country you first use the motor as a brake,
In an automatic car, you do not
You can if you want. I often downshift an automatic
on a downhill grade.
The only automatic car I have driven was recently a Fiat 600e that I
rented. Electric. The regenerative brake is brutal.
You can set the cruise controller to 90km/h on a 2000 thousand meter
high sierra, and it will keep the speed both going up or down. I
tested it.
DuckDuckGo suggests Mount Everest (highest point on Earth) is only
8,849 mtrs high .... somewhat less than your "2000 thousand meter high
sierra". ;-P
Or are you meaning "2000 thousand meter on the high sierra"??
Oops. Typo.
Two thousand meters. Or 2000 meters.
On 11/10/2026 9:23 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/10/2026 11:15, Daniel70 wrote:
That's not fair! English is not his first language.The only automatic car I have driven was recently a Fiat 600e that IAre you sure, Carlos??
rented. Electric. The regenerative brake is brutal.
You can set the cruise controller to 90km/h on a 2000 thousand meter
high sierra, and it will keep the speed both going up or down. I
tested it.
DuckDuckGo suggests Mount Everest (highest point on Earth) is only
8,849 mtrs high .... somewhat less than your "2000 thousand meter high
sierra". 😜
Correct .... and the only way he/one can improve themselves is to be corrected when they make an error. Isn't that what Teachers are paid to
do .... Oh, and Parents, too, although their Pay might not be so good. ;-)
And a typical meter is only about 4cm high and comes with a red lead and
a black lead. :-)
Oh!! That must be Modern Tech .... when I used AVO meters (thirty-odd
years ago) they were six cm or more deep. ;-P
But the Red and Black leads were pretty common. (I think I had a Green
lead at one stage.)
On 10/10/2026 13:29, John Williamson wrote:
On 10/10/2026 12:44, Andy Burns wrote:But only in one direction
The Natural Philosopher wrote:The last one I owned locked the torque converter as soon as the engine
Carlos E. R. wrote:Not all automatics are slushboxes ...
In hilly country you first use the motor as a brake,
In an automatic car, you do not
exceeded a certain speed.
On 2026-10-11, Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:[]
On 11/10/2026 9:23 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
That's not fair! English is not his first language.
Correct .... and the only way he/one can improve themselves is to be
corrected when they make an error. Isn't that what Teachers are paid to
do .... Oh, and Parents, too, although their Pay might not be so good. ;-)
Still, the best teachers manage to point out errors without
making someone feel like an idiot. Abusive language may be
satisfying, but only for the abuser. It certainly doesn't
accomplish the goal.
And a typical meter is only about 4cm high and comes with a red lead and >>> a black lead. :-)
Oh!! That must be Modern Tech .... when I used AVO meters (thirty-odd
years ago) they were six cm or more deep. ;-P
But the Red and Black leads were pretty common. (I think I had a Green
lead at one stage.)
Red to red and black to black
Switch it on and stand well back
On 2026/10/11 16:54:43, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2026-10-11, Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:[]
On 11/10/2026 9:23 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
That's not fair! English is not his first language.
Yes, and I try to make allowances. Sometimes, however, the
non-native-speaker _does_ speak English so well that it's easy to forget
- Carlos being a good example. (I think the "2000 thousand" was just a
slip of the mind, the sort that we native-speakers also make.)
Correct .... and the only way he/one can improve themselves is to be
corrected when they make an error. Isn't that what Teachers are paid to
That I do agree with. Any correction I make - unless the error-er is
being particularly obnoxious - is made with educational intent, to help
the error-maker get it right, and thus get less disrespect, in future.
(And anyone else reading who might also be prone to make that error, especially if it's a common type.)
do .... Oh, and Parents, too, although their Pay might not be so good. ;-)
:-)
Still, the best teachers manage to point out errors without
making someone feel like an idiot. Abusive language may be
satisfying, but only for the abuser. It certainly doesn't
accomplish the goal.
I try to show _why_ the error is wrong - with humour, if possible, in
the hope that that will _help_ anyone remember.
And a typical meter is only about 4cm high and comes with a red lead and >>>> a black lead. :-)
Oh!! That must be Modern Tech .... when I used AVO meters (thirty-odd
years ago) they were six cm or more deep. ;-P
More like 10-15 IME!
Not heard that one!
But the Red and Black leads were pretty common. (I think I had a Green
lead at one stage.)
Red to red and black to black
Switch it on and stand well back
green to green or red to red - proceed with caution, slow ahead;
red to green or green to red - perfect safety, go ahead.
Running lights for boats/ships - I think I got it from my father, who
spend a little time in the navy. Unfortunately, I'm never sure whether
I've got it the right way round! (I _think_ I have - if contrasting
colours, then the other vessel is going in the same direction as you, so collision would be less catastrophic.)
On 11/10/2026 18:35, J. P. Gilliver wrote:[]
On 2026/10/11 16:54:43, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
When boats ahead, show your red.Red to red and black to blackNot heard that one!
Switch it on and stand well back
green to green or red to red - proceed with caution, slow ahead;
red to green or green to red - perfect safety, go ahead.
Running lights for boats/ships - I think I got it from my father, who
spend a little time in the navy. Unfortunately, I'm never sure whether
I've got it the right way round! (I _think_ I have - if contrasting
colours, then the other vessel is going in the same direction as you, so
collision would be less catastrophic.)
The full rules are 21 pages of legalese...
On 11/10/2026 14:18, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-10-11 12:15, Daniel70 wrote:That;s a lot of red and black wires... :-)
On 11/10/2026 4:34 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-10-10 01:08, Charlie Gibbs wrote:Are you sure, Carlos??
On 2026-10-09, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>> On 09/10/2026 21:20, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-10-08 14:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Only if you need to use the brakes a lot
No.
In hilly country you first use the motor as a brake,
In an automatic car, you do not
You can if you want. I often downshift an automatic
on a downhill grade.
The only automatic car I have driven was recently a Fiat 600e that I
rented. Electric. The regenerative brake is brutal.
You can set the cruise controller to 90km/h on a 2000 thousand meter
high sierra, and it will keep the speed both going up or down. I
tested it.
DuckDuckGo suggests Mount Everest (highest point on Earth) is only
8,849 mtrs high .... somewhat less than your "2000 thousand meter
high sierra". ;-P
Or are you meaning "2000 thousand meter on the high sierra"??
Oops. Typo.
Two thousand meters. Or 2000 meters.
On Mo 05 Okt 2026 at 19:32, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-10-05 17:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/10/2026 14:19, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Nope. We just remember Chernobyl and Fukushima. Can happen again elsewhere.Which had almost no effect on anything.
It had an effect on public opinion.
Details are irrelevant.
Thousands of the people that had to clean ☝️ Chernobyl died because of it. Some earlier, some later. That's not what I'd call no effect.
listed various short international signals and what they mean. My
favourite one meant: "Stop. Stop engines. Do not lower boats. If you
disobey, I will open fire."
At a certain level dictatorships are efficient,. The problem is the >dictators, who cannot know what's going on a few layers down in the >hierarchy,
I'm not talking of the device to measure volts, but of the distance
measure called "meter" or "metre". I'm unsure which, but the dictionary insists it is "meter" in American English.
Please do not set "Followup-To: poster". It is highly impolite.
On 2026/10/11 16:54:43, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Still, the best teachers manage to point out errors without
making someone feel like an idiot. Abusive language may be
satisfying, but only for the abuser. It certainly doesn't
accomplish the goal.
I try to show _why_ the error is wrong - with humour, if possible, in
the hope that that will _help_ anyone remember.
And a typical meter is only about 4cm high and comes with a red lead and >>>> a black lead. :-)
Oh!! That must be Modern Tech .... when I used AVO meters (thirty-odd
years ago) they were six cm or more deep. ;-P
More like 10-15 IME!
Not heard that one!But the Red and Black leads were pretty common. (I think I had a Green
lead at one stage.)
Red to red and black to black
Switch it on and stand well back
green to green or red to red - proceed with caution, slow ahead;
red to green or green to red - perfect safety, go ahead.
Running lights for boats/ships - I think I got it from my father, who
spend a little time in the navy. Unfortunately, I'm never sure whether
I've got it the right way round! (I _think_ I have - if contrasting
colours, then the other vessel is going in the same direction as you, so collision would be less catastrophic.)
I remember AVO meters. Beautiful things.
It took me a minute to realize you had switched to running lights.
(They're the same for aircraft too.)
Maybe it's time to start a new thread on mnemonic phrases. :-)
On 2026-10-11, Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
On 11/10/2026 9:23 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/10/2026 11:15, Daniel70 wrote:
That's not fair! English is not his first language.The only automatic car I have driven was recently a Fiat 600e that I >>>>> rented. Electric. The regenerative brake is brutal.Are you sure, Carlos??
You can set the cruise controller to 90km/h on a 2000 thousand meter >>>>> high sierra, and it will keep the speed both going up or down. I
tested it.
DuckDuckGo suggests Mount Everest (highest point on Earth) is only
8,849 mtrs high .... somewhat less than your "2000 thousand meter high >>>> sierra". 😜
Correct .... and the only way he/one can improve themselves is to be
corrected when they make an error. Isn't that what Teachers are paid to
do .... Oh, and Parents, too, although their Pay might not be so good. ;-)
Still, the best teachers manage to point out errors without
making someone feel like an idiot. Abusive language may be
satisfying, but only for the abuser. It certainly doesn't
accomplish the goal.
And a typical meter is only about 4cm high and comes with a red lead and >>> a black lead. :-)
Oh!! That must be Modern Tech .... when I used AVO meters (thirty-odd
years ago) they were six cm or more deep. ;-P
But the Red and Black leads were pretty common. (I think I had a Green
lead at one stage.)
Red to red and black to black
Switch it on and stand well back
On 2026/10/11 16:54:43, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2026-10-11, Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
Not heard that one!But the Red and Black leads were pretty common. (I think I had a Green
lead at one stage.)
Red to red and black to black
Switch it on and stand well back
green to green or red to red - proceed with caution, slow ahead;
red to green or green to red - perfect safety, go ahead.
Running lights for boats/ships - I think I got it from my father, who
spend a little time in the navy. Unfortunately, I'm never sure whether
I've got it the right way round! (I _think_ I have - if contrasting
colours, then the other vessel is going in the same direction as you, so collision would be less catastrophic.)
On 2026/10/11 18:52:44, John Williamson wrote:
On 11/10/2026 18:35, J. P. Gilliver wrote:[]
On 2026/10/11 16:54:43, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
When boats ahead, show your red.Red to red and black to blackNot heard that one!
Switch it on and stand well back
green to green or red to red - proceed with caution, slow ahead;
red to green or green to red - perfect safety, go ahead.
Running lights for boats/ships - I think I got it from my father, who
spend a little time in the navy. Unfortunately, I'm never sure whether
I've got it the right way round! (I _think_ I have - if contrasting
colours, then the other vessel is going in the same direction as you, so >>> collision would be less catastrophic.)
I think we're talking about different lights; the ones I have in mind
show which _side_ of a boat/ship is which - green on one side, red the
other.
The full rules are 21 pages of legalese...My dad had a book called "the military Eitzen", which among other things listed various short international signals and what they mean. My
favourite one meant: "Stop. Stop engines. Do not lower boats. If you
disobey, I will open fire."
On 2026/10/12 3:24:9, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
[]
I remember AVO meters. Beautiful things.
Yes, there was something rather pleasing about them. One snag though -
they were made from Bakelite, or something very similar. We had a test equipment rack, accessible from both sides; someone once pushed a piece
of equipment onto it, which pushed an AVO off the other side, from about chest height; it shattered into sufficiently many parts that we had to
decide that sadly it could only be used for parts! (They also used an
unusual battery.)
[]
It took me a minute to realize you had switched to running lights.
(They're the same for aircraft too.)
Aircraft lights - when I was single digits - 6 yo 9 or so - my Dad would sometimes take us to the local airport (Düsseldorf) so we could watch 'planes coming in and out (a not uncommon activity for little boys in
the 1960s, I think).
Anyway, I'd just learnt the function of indicators
on cars - a blinking orange light on the left meant that the car was
going to turn left. So it seemed perfectly logical that airliners had a blinking orange light on top, which I interpreted as meaning they were
going to go up!
[]
Maybe it's time to start a new thread on mnemonic phrases. :-)The planets (before Pluto was demoted): "Men very easily make jugs serve useful nocturnal purposes." :-)
On 2026-10-11, J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
On 2026/10/11 16:54:43, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Still, the best teachers manage to point out errors without
making someone feel like an idiot. Abusive language may be
satisfying, but only for the abuser. It certainly doesn't
accomplish the goal.
I try to show _why_ the error is wrong - with humour, if possible,
in the hope that that will _help_ anyone remember.
That's the best way IMHO.
And a typical meter is only about 4cm high and comes with a
red lead and a black lead. :-)
Oh!! That must be Modern Tech .... when I used AVO meters
(thirty-odd years ago) they were six cm or more deep. ;-P
More like 10-15 IME!
I remember AVO meters. Beautiful things.
Op 27-9-2026 om 14:13 schreef Daniel70:
On 27/09/2026 9:52 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 27/09/2026 10:58, Daniel70 wrote:Sorry, I didn't read that into it. ;-)
But isn't 'wire' a form of 'cable'??
In *this* context cable was coaxial RF, wire tended to me more
twisted pair
That's correct.
Wire (Draadomroepsystemen) was POTS, Plain-Old-Telephony-System.
In NL you got 4 wires -> 2 for telephony + 2 for Draadomroep.
Rink
On 2026-10-11 15:59, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/10/2026 14:18, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-10-11 12:15, Daniel70 wrote:That;s a lot of red and black wires... :-)
On 11/10/2026 4:34 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-10-10 01:08, Charlie Gibbs wrote:Are you sure, Carlos??
On 2026-10-09, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>> On 09/10/2026 21:20, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-10-08 14:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Only if you need to use the brakes a lot
No.
In hilly country you first use the motor as a brake,
In an automatic car, you do not
You can if you want. I often downshift an automatic
on a downhill grade.
The only automatic car I have driven was recently a Fiat 600e that
I rented. Electric. The regenerative brake is brutal.
You can set the cruise controller to 90km/h on a 2000 thousand
meter high sierra, and it will keep the speed both going up or
down. I tested it.
DuckDuckGo suggests Mount Everest (highest point on Earth) is only
8,849 mtrs high .... somewhat less than your "2000 thousand meter
high sierra". ;-P
Or are you meaning "2000 thousand meter on the high sierra"??
Oops. Typo.
Two thousand meters. Or 2000 meters.
I'm not talking of the device to measure volts, but of the distance
measure called "meter" or "metre". I'm unsure which, but the dictionary insists it is "meter" in American English.
(I'm not sure where the difference in words ending -or/-our,Webster understood how dumb his countrymen were and set about
like honour and colour, comes from.)
I remember AVO meters. Beautiful things.
On 2026/10/12 3:24:9, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
[]
I remember AVO meters. Beautiful things.
Yes, there was something rather pleasing about them. One snag though -
they were made from Bakelite, or something very similar. We had a test equipment rack, accessible from both sides; someone once pushed a piece
of equipment onto it, which pushed an AVO off the other side, from about chest height; it shattered into sufficiently many parts that we had to
decide that sadly it could only be used for parts! (They also used an
unusual battery.)
[]
It took me a minute to realize you had switched to running lights.
(They're the same for aircraft too.)
Aircraft lights - when I was single digits - 6 yo 9 or so - my Dad would sometimes take us to the local airport (Düsseldorf) so we could watch 'planes coming in and out (a not uncommon activity for little boys in
the 1960s, I think).
Anyway, I'd just learnt the function of indicators
on cars - a blinking orange light on the left meant that the car was
going to turn left. So it seemed perfectly logical that airliners had a blinking orange light on top, which I interpreted as meaning they were
going to go up!
[]
Maybe it's time to start a new thread on mnemonic phrases. :-)The planets (before Pluto was demoted): "Men very easily make jugs serve useful nocturnal purposes." :-)
On 2026-10-11 12:15, Daniel70 wrote:
On 11/10/2026 4:34 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-10-10 01:08, Charlie Gibbs wrote:Are you sure, Carlos??
On 2026-10-09, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 09/10/2026 21:20, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-10-08 14:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Only if you need to use the brakes a lot
No.
In hilly country you first use the motor as a brake,
In an automatic car, you do not
You can if you want. I often downshift an automatic
on a downhill grade.
The only automatic car I have driven was recently a Fiat 600e that I
rented. Electric. The regenerative brake is brutal.
You can set the cruise controller to 90km/h on a 2000 thousand meter
high sierra, and it will keep the speed both going up or down. I
tested it.
DuckDuckGo suggests Mount Everest (highest point on Earth) is only
8,849 mtrs high .... somewhat less than your "2000 thousand meter high
sierra". ;-P
Or are you meaning "2000 thousand meter on the high sierra"??
Oops. Typo.
Two thousand meters. Or 2000 meters.
On 11/10/2026 20:29, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-10-11 15:59, The Natural Philosopher wrote:You are not American
On 11/10/2026 14:18, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-10-11 12:15, Daniel70 wrote:That;s a lot of red and black wires... :-)
On 11/10/2026 4:34 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:Oops. Typo.
On 2026-10-10 01:08, Charlie Gibbs wrote:Are you sure, Carlos??
On 2026-10-09, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>> On 09/10/2026 21:20, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-10-08 14:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Only if you need to use the brakes a lot
No.
In hilly country you first use the motor as a brake,
In an automatic car, you do not
You can if you want. I often downshift an automatic
on a downhill grade.
The only automatic car I have driven was recently a Fiat 600e that >>>>>> I rented. Electric. The regenerative brake is brutal.
You can set the cruise controller to 90km/h on a 2000 thousand
meter high sierra, and it will keep the speed both going up or
down. I tested it.
DuckDuckGo suggests Mount Everest (highest point on Earth) is only
8,849 mtrs high .... somewhat less than your "2000 thousand meter
high sierra". ;-P
Or are you meaning "2000 thousand meter on the high sierra"??
Two thousand meters. Or 2000 meters.
I'm not talking of the device to measure volts, but of the distance
measure called "meter" or "metre". I'm unsure which, but the
dictionary insists it is "meter" in American English.
On 10/10/26 08:29, John Williamson wrote:
On 10/10/2026 12:44, Andy Burns wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:The last one I owned locked the torque converter as soon as the engine
Carlos E. R. wrote:Not all automatics are slushboxes ...
In hilly country you first use the motor as a brake,
In an automatic car, you do not
exceeded a certain speed.
Well, that's the logical tact. I'd design 'em
to do that. Engines are expensive !
Admittedly, for very hilly areas, manual transmissions
are still maybe still the best solution.
Plus Gen-Z/A2 can't figure out manual trannies :-)
On 2026-10-11, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
On 10/10/26 08:29, John Williamson wrote:
On 10/10/2026 12:44, Andy Burns wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
In hilly country you first use the motor as a brake,
In an automatic car, you do not
Not all automatics are slushboxes ...
The last one I owned locked the torque converter as soon as the engine
exceeded a certain speed.
Well, that's the logical tact. I'd design 'em
to do that. Engines are expensive !
Admittedly, for very hilly areas, manual transmissions
are still maybe still the best solution.
Plus Gen-Z/A2 can't figure out manual trannies :-)
I recently saw a car with an externally-mounted spare tire
on whose cover was printed "This vehicle is equipped with an
anti-theft device" - plus a diagram of a gearshift pattern.
On 2026/10/11 9:30:25, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/10/2026 13:29, John Williamson wrote:If you're reversing that fast, I'll get out of your way ...
On 10/10/2026 12:44, Andy Burns wrote:But only in one direction
The Natural Philosopher wrote:The last one I owned locked the torque converter as soon as the engine
Carlos E. R. wrote:Not all automatics are slushboxes ...
In hilly country you first use the motor as a brake,
In an automatic car, you do not
exceeded a certain speed.
Please do not set "Followup-To: poster". It is highly impolite.
On 2026-10-11 14:14, Andreas Eder wrote:
On Mo 05 Okt 2026 at 19:32, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-10-05 17:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/10/2026 14:19, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Nope. We just remember Chernobyl and Fukushima. Can happen againWhich had almost no effect on anything.
elsewhere.
It had an effect on public opinion.
Details are irrelevant.
Thousands of the people that had to clean ☝️ Chernobyl died because of >> it. Some earlier, some later. That's not what I'd call no effect.
Yes, it is true. Very sad.
On 2026/10/11 20:33:39, Carlos E.R. wrote:No,
Does it even _work_ with most clients?
Please do not set "Followup-To: poster". It is highly impolite.
On 9/10/2026 6:51 am, Rink wrote:
Op 27-9-2026 om 14:13 schreef Daniel70:
On 27/09/2026 9:52 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 27/09/2026 10:58, Daniel70 wrote:Sorry, I didn't read that into it. ;-)
But isn't 'wire' a form of 'cable'??
In *this* context cable was coaxial RF, wire tended to me more
twisted pair
That's correct.
Wire (Draadomroepsystemen) was POTS, Plain-Old-Telephony-System.
In NL you got 4 wires -> 2 for telephony + 2 for Draadomroep.
Rink
"Plain-Old-Telephony-System"?? Is THAT what "POTS" stood for?? I thought
it was "Post Office Telephone System" because the Post Office ran the Switchboards.
On 9/10/2026 6:51 am, Rink wrote:
Op 27-9-2026 om 14:13 schreef Daniel70:
On 27/09/2026 9:52 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 27/09/2026 10:58, Daniel70 wrote:Sorry, I didn't read that into it. ;-)
But isn't 'wire' a form of 'cable'??
In *this* context cable was coaxial RF, wire tended to me more
twisted pair
That's correct.
Wire (Draadomroepsystemen) was POTS, Plain-Old-Telephony-System.
In NL you got 4 wires -> 2 for telephony + 2 for Draadomroep.
Rink
"Plain-Old-Telephony-System"?? Is THAT what "POTS" stood for?? I thought
it was "Post Office Telephone System" because the Post Office ran the Switchboards.
On 2026/10/5 6:27:38, c186282 wrote:
[]
AM looking to make a semi-decent DC power storage[]
unit - probably solar charged. Doesn't have to be
I don't think you have to specify the "DC" part; AC storage is either
pumped water, or flywheels, neither of which are within the reach of
most home users!
On 12/10/2026 8:45 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/10/2026 20:29, Carlos E.R. wrote:.... and Carlos is discussing a French (sort of 'European') unit of
On 2026-10-11 15:59, The Natural Philosopher wrote:You are not American
On 11/10/2026 14:18, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-10-11 12:15, Daniel70 wrote:That;s a lot of red and black wires... :-)
On 11/10/2026 4:34 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:Oops. Typo.
On 2026-10-10 01:08, Charlie Gibbs wrote:Are you sure, Carlos??
On 2026-10-09, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 09/10/2026 21:20, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-10-08 14:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Only if you need to use the brakes a lot
No.
In hilly country you first use the motor as a brake,
In an automatic car, you do not
You can if you want. I often downshift an automatic
on a downhill grade.
The only automatic car I have driven was recently a Fiat 600e
that I rented. Electric. The regenerative brake is brutal.
You can set the cruise controller to 90km/h on a 2000 thousand
meter high sierra, and it will keep the speed both going up or
down. I tested it.
DuckDuckGo suggests Mount Everest (highest point on Earth) is only >>>>>> 8,849 mtrs high .... somewhat less than your "2000 thousand meter >>>>>> high sierra". ;-P
Or are you meaning "2000 thousand meter on the high sierra"??
Two thousand meters. Or 2000 meters.
I'm not talking of the device to measure volts, but of the distance
measure called "meter" or "metre". I'm unsure which, but the
dictionary insists it is "meter" in American English.
measure. ;-P
On 2026/10/11 20:29:10, Carlos E.R. wrote:
[]
I'm not talking of the device to measure volts, but of the distance
They knew very well what you meant; they were just teasing you!
measure called "meter" or "metre". I'm unsure which, but the dictionaryYes, American English uses the German spelling (also for many other
insists it is "meter" in American English.
words, like theat*, cent*, etcetera). British English uses the French spelling. (I'm not sure where the difference in words ending -or/-our,
like honour and colour, comes from.)
American _pronunciation_ is also weird for the kilo- prefix when applied
to meters/metres, though it does for grammes/grams or watts.
On 12/10/2026 12:18 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-10-11 12:15, Daniel70 wrote:Don't you just Hate it when the fingers work faster than the brain?? ;-P
On 11/10/2026 4:34 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-10-10 01:08, Charlie Gibbs wrote:Are you sure, Carlos??
On 2026-10-09, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>> On 09/10/2026 21:20, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-10-08 14:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Only if you need to use the brakes a lot
No.
In hilly country you first use the motor as a brake,
In an automatic car, you do not
You can if you want. I often downshift an automatic
on a downhill grade.
The only automatic car I have driven was recently a Fiat 600e that I
rented. Electric. The regenerative brake is brutal.
You can set the cruise controller to 90km/h on a 2000 thousand meter
high sierra, and it will keep the speed both going up or down. I
tested it.
DuckDuckGo suggests Mount Everest (highest point on Earth) is only
8,849 mtrs high .... somewhat less than your "2000 thousand meter
high sierra". ;-P
Or are you meaning "2000 thousand meter on the high sierra"??
Oops. Typo.
Two thousand meters. Or 2000 meters.
On 12/10/2026 8:45 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/10/2026 20:29, Carlos E.R. wrote:.... and Carlos is discussing a French (sort of 'European') unit of
On 2026-10-11 15:59, The Natural Philosopher wrote:You are not American
On 11/10/2026 14:18, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-10-11 12:15, Daniel70 wrote:That;s a lot of red and black wires... :-)
On 11/10/2026 4:34 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:Oops. Typo.
On 2026-10-10 01:08, Charlie Gibbs wrote:Are you sure, Carlos??
On 2026-10-09, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 09/10/2026 21:20, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-10-08 14:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Only if you need to use the brakes a lot
No.
In hilly country you first use the motor as a brake,
In an automatic car, you do not
You can if you want. I often downshift an automatic
on a downhill grade.
The only automatic car I have driven was recently a Fiat 600e
that I rented. Electric. The regenerative brake is brutal.
You can set the cruise controller to 90km/h on a 2000 thousand
meter high sierra, and it will keep the speed both going up or
down. I tested it.
DuckDuckGo suggests Mount Everest (highest point on Earth) is only >>>>>> 8,849 mtrs high .... somewhat less than your "2000 thousand meter >>>>>> high sierra". ;-P
Or are you meaning "2000 thousand meter on the high sierra"??
Two thousand meters. Or 2000 meters.
I'm not talking of the device to measure volts, but of the distance
measure called "meter" or "metre". I'm unsure which, but the
dictionary insists it is "meter" in American English.
measure. ;-P
On 2026/10/11 20:33:39, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Does it even _work_ with most clients?
Please do not set "Followup-To: poster". It is highly impolite.
[]
On 12/10/2026 08:47, Daniel70 wrote:
On 9/10/2026 6:51 am, Rink wrote:The Post Office Telephone System was a Plain Old Telephone System, and I have used the acronym to mean both depending on context.
Op 27-9-2026 om 14:13 schreef Daniel70:
On 27/09/2026 9:52 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 27/09/2026 10:58, Daniel70 wrote:Sorry, I didn't read that into it. ;-)
But isn't 'wire' a form of 'cable'??
In *this* context cable was coaxial RF, wire tended to me more
twisted pair
That's correct.
Wire (Draadomroepsystemen) was POTS, Plain-Old-Telephony-System.
In NL you got 4 wires -> 2 for telephony + 2 for Draadomroep.
Rink
"Plain-Old-Telephony-System"?? Is THAT what "POTS" stood for?? I thought
it was "Post Office Telephone System" because the Post Office ran the
Switchboards.
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
At a certain level dictatorships are efficient,. The problem is the
dictators, who cannot know what's going on a few layers down in the
hierarchy,
It must be said, though, that the Chinese model is working shockingly
well. While getting something done in the West can take years and
years and bickering and lawsuits, they just get it done, if it serves
the national interest.
On 11/10/2026 20:33, Carlos E.R. wrote:
No. Its a lie.
Please do not set "Followup-To: poster". It is highly impolite.
On 2026-10-11 14:14, Andreas Eder wrote:
On Mo 05 Okt 2026 at 19:32, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-10-05 17:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/10/2026 14:19, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Nope. We just remember Chernobyl and Fukushima. Can happen againWhich had almost no effect on anything.
elsewhere.
It had an effect on public opinion.
Details are irrelevant.
Thousands of the people that had to clean ☝️ Chernobyl died because of >>> it. Some earlier, some later. That's not what I'd call no effect.
Yes, it is true. Very sad.
WHO said.
"Immediate deaths: *31 people* died directly from the explosion, thermal/radiation burns, and Acute Radiation Syndrome (ARS) within the
first few months.
Long-term *projected deaths:* The 2005/2006 WHO and UN report projected
that up to 4,000 people among the roughly 600,000 emergency workers ("liquidators") and high-exposure residents *could* eventually die from radiation-induced cancers"
On 2026-10-12 12:14, Daniel70 wrote:
On 12/10/2026 8:45 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/10/2026 20:29, Carlos E.R. wrote:
.... and Carlos is discussing a French (sort of 'European') unit ofI'm not talking of the device to measure volts, but of the distanceYou are not American
measure called "meter" or "metre". I'm unsure which, but the
dictionary insists it is "meter" in American English.
measure. ;-P
Actually, international, consensual. :-p
On 2026-10-11 23:32, chrisv wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
At a certain level dictatorships are efficient,. The problem is the
dictators, who cannot know what's going on a few layers down in the
hierarchy,
It must be said, though, that the Chinese model is working shockingly
well. While getting something done in the West can take years and
years and bickering and lawsuits, they just get it done, if it serves
the national interest.
Indeed.
Their civil engineering, for instant, is amazing.
On 12/10/2026 10:27 pm, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-10-12 12:14, Daniel70 wrote:
On 12/10/2026 8:45 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/10/2026 20:29, Carlos E.R. wrote:
<Snip>
Yes, .... depending which system of Units you use. ;-).... and Carlos is discussing a French (sort of 'European') unit ofI'm not talking of the device to measure volts, but of the distance >>>>> measure called "meter" or "metre". I'm unsure which, but theYou are not American
dictionary insists it is "meter" in American English.
measure. ;-P
Actually, international, consensual. :-p
The Post Office Telephone System was a Plain Old Telephone System, andHmmm! Yeah, O.K., we (Aussies) have a Government run Post Office, Pomms
I have used the acronym to mean both depending on context.
have a Government run Post Office.
Do Yanks actually have Government run Post Offices?? Or is it all
Private Companies/Contractors that handle the Mail??
On 12/10/2026 12:36, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-10-11 23:32, chrisv wrote:Especially when it falls down
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
At a certain level dictatorships are efficient,. The problem is the
dictators, who cannot know what's going on a few layers down in the
hierarchy,
It must be said, though, that the Chinese model is working shockingly
well. While getting something done in the West can take years and
years and bickering and lawsuits, they just get it done, if it serves
the national interest.
Indeed.
Their civil engineering, for instant, is amazing.
My company days are done, don't need code or big stats and would not
TRUST it with too much of my personal or financial shit. NOT gonna
'chat'.
On 2026-10-12 12:39, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/10/2026 20:33, Carlos E.R. wrote:
No. Its a lie.
Please do not set "Followup-To: poster". It is highly impolite.
On 2026-10-11 14:14, Andreas Eder wrote:
On Mo 05 Okt 2026 at 19:32, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-10-05 17:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/10/2026 14:19, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Nope. We just remember Chernobyl and Fukushima. Can happen again >>>>>>> elsewhere.Which had almost no effect on anything.
It had an effect on public opinion.
Details are irrelevant.
Thousands of the people that had to clean ☝️ Chernobyl died because of >>>> it. Some earlier, some later. That's not what I'd call no effect.
Yes, it is true. Very sad.
WHO said.
"Immediate deaths: *31 people* died directly from the explosion,
thermal/radiation burns, and Acute Radiation Syndrome (ARS) within the
first few months.
Long-term *projected deaths:* The 2005/2006 WHO and UN report
projected that up to 4,000 people among the roughly 600,000 emergency
workers ("liquidators") and high-exposure residents *could* eventually
die from radiation-induced cancers"
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_due_to_the_Chernobyl_disaster>
The Chernobyl disaster, considered the worst nuclear disaster in
history, occurred on 26 April 1986 at the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant
in the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, then part of the Soviet
Union, now in Ukraine. From 1986 onward, the total death toll of the disaster has lacked consensus; as peer-reviewed medical journal The
Lancet and other sources have noted, it remains contested.[1] There is consensus that a total of approximately 30 people died from immediate
blast trauma and acute radiation syndrome (ARS) in the seconds to months after the disaster respectively, with 60 in total in the decades since, inclusive of later radiation induced cancer.[2][3][4] However, there is considerable debate concerning the accurate number of projected deaths
that have yet to occur due to the disaster's long-term health effects; long-term death estimates range from 4,000 up to 9,000 (per the 2005 and updated 2006 conclusions of a joint consortium of the United Nations)
for the most exposed people of Ukraine, Belarus, and Russia, to 16,000
cases in total for all those exposed on the entire continent of Europe,
with figures as high as 60,000 when including the relatively minor
effects around the globe. Such numbers are based on the heavily
contested linear no-threshold model.[5]
On 12/10/2026 5:23 pm, J. P. Gilliver wrote:[]
On 2026/10/12 3:24:9, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
[]Not the mnemonic I learnt .... back in the day (early 70's) when I hadMaybe it's time to start a new thread on mnemonic phrases. :-)The planets (before Pluto was demoted): "Men very easily make jugs serve
useful nocturnal purposes." :-)
On 11/10/2026 23:46, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
(I'm not sure where the difference in words ending -or/-our,Webster understood how dumb his countrymen were and set about
like honour and colour, comes from.)
'simplifying' English as well as going polysyllabic to feed their egos
On 6/10/2026 10:23 am, J. P. Gilliver wrote:Yes: DC storage (you actually said it yourself - "DC Batteries"),
On 2026/10/5 6:27:38, c186282 wrote:Hmm! My Solar Panels generate DC power which is stored in DC Batteries
[]
AM looking to make a semi-decent DC power storage[]
unit - probably solar charged. Doesn't have to be
I don't think you have to specify the "DC" part; AC storage is either
pumped water, or flywheels, neither of which are within the reach of
most home users!
and then converted into AC to power my house or to be fed into the
external Mains system.
No need, in this case, for Water or Flywheels.
On 2026/10/12 10:48:7, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/10/2026 23:46, J. P. Gilliver wrote:George Orwell had a go at the simplifying, in 1984: definitely a
(I'm not sure where the difference in words ending -or/-our,Webster understood how dumb his countrymen were and set about
like honour and colour, comes from.)
'simplifying' English as well as going polysyllabic to feed their egos
double-plus un-good thing to do.
So Webster is the reason for transportation for transport, and elevator
for lift, is he?
here are very few automatic cars in Spain.
On 10/10/2026 18:30, Carlos E.R. wrote:
here are very few automatic cars in Spain.
Surprising, I thought car manufacturers were switching to only making automatics and of course there are Battery Vehicles.
On 10/10/2026 18:30, Carlos E.R. wrote:
here are very few automatic cars in Spain.
Surprising, I thought car manufacturers were switching to only making automatics and of course there are Battery Vehicles.
JMB99 wrote:Most (but not all) hybrids use a planetary gearbox to allow combining
I thought car manufacturers were switching to only making
automatics and of course there are Battery Vehicles.
That certainly isn't the case in UK; even new petrol/diesel vehicles,
for the home market, are mostly manuals - many Brits prefer them. Yes,
pure electrics are in effect automatics (at least they have no gearbox/"transmission"); I'm not sure about hybrids.
On 12/10/2026 12:35, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-10-12 12:39, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/10/2026 20:33, Carlos E.R. wrote:
No. Its a lie.
Please do not set "Followup-To: poster". It is highly impolite.
On 2026-10-11 14:14, Andreas Eder wrote:
On Mo 05 Okt 2026 at 19:32, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-10-05 17:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/10/2026 14:19, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Nope. We just remember Chernobyl and Fukushima. Can happen again >>>>>>>> elsewhere.Which had almost no effect on anything.
It had an effect on public opinion.
Details are irrelevant.
Thousands of the people that had to clean ☝️ Chernobyl died because of
it. Some earlier, some later. That's not what I'd call no effect.
Yes, it is true. Very sad.
WHO said.
"Immediate deaths: *31 people* died directly from the explosion,
thermal/radiation burns, and Acute Radiation Syndrome (ARS) within
the first few months.
Long-term *projected deaths:* The 2005/2006 WHO and UN report
projected that up to 4,000 people among the roughly 600,000 emergency
workers ("liquidators") and high-exposure residents *could*
eventually die from radiation-induced cancers"
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_due_to_the_Chernobyl_disaster>
The Chernobyl disaster, considered the worst nuclear disaster in
history, occurred on 26 April 1986 at the Chernobyl Nuclear Power
Plant in the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, then part of the
Soviet Union, now in Ukraine. From 1986 onward, the total death toll
of the disaster has lacked consensus; as peer-reviewed medical journal
The Lancet and other sources have noted, it remains contested.[1]
There is consensus that a total of approximately 30 people died from
immediate blast trauma and acute radiation syndrome (ARS) in the
seconds to months after the disaster respectively, with 60 in total in
the decades since, inclusive of later radiation induced cancer.[2][3]
[4] However, there is considerable debate concerning the accurate
number of projected deaths that have yet to occur due to the
disaster's long-term health effects; long-term death estimates range
from 4,000 up to 9,000 (per the 2005 and updated 2006 conclusions of a
joint consortium of the United Nations) for the most exposed people of
Ukraine, Belarus, and Russia, to 16,000 cases in total for all those
exposed on the entire continent of Europe, with figures as high as
60,000 when including the relatively minor effects around the globe.
Such numbers are based on the heavily contested linear no-threshold
model.[5]
Exactly what I said. Such numbers are based on the 'heavily contested' linear no-threshold model (LNT)
They are not facts, They are models, estimates based on 'science' that
is *known* to be wrong. LNT isn't contested, it's thoroughly debunked
but real science.
On 10/10/2026 18:30, Carlos E.R. wrote:
here are very few automatic cars in Spain.
Surprising, I thought car manufacturers were switching to only making automatics and of course there are Battery Vehicles.
On 2026/10/12 10:48:7, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/10/2026 23:46, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
(I'm not sure where the difference in words ending -or/-our,
like honour and colour, comes from.)
Webster understood how dumb his countrymen were and set about
'simplifying' English as well as going polysyllabic to feed their egos
George Orwell had a go at the simplifying, in 1984: definitely a
double-plus un-good thing to do.
So Webster is the reason for transportation for transport, and elevator
for lift, is he?
On 2026-10-12, J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:[]
On 2026/10/12 10:48:7, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Webster understood how dumb his countrymen were and set about
'simplifying' English as well as going polysyllabic to feed their egos
George Orwell had a go at the simplifying, in 1984: definitely a
double-plus un-good thing to do.
So Webster is the reason for transportation for transport, and elevator
for lift, is he?
"'Orientate' is an example of the trend toward polysyllabificationizing."
On 2026/10/12 23:35:56, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2026-10-12, J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:[]
On 2026/10/12 10:48:7, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Transport(ation) is the example I usually use. But it's not always extra syllables, though I think it is commoner; however, sometimes the US wordWebster understood how dumb his countrymen were and set about
'simplifying' English as well as going polysyllabic to feed their egos
George Orwell had a go at the simplifying, in 1984: definitely a
double-plus un-good thing to do.
So Webster is the reason for transportation for transport, and elevator
for lift, is he?
"'Orientate' is an example of the trend toward polysyllabificationizing."
is shorter, just to throw us - I always feel, for example, that the word "intern" (for a sort of apprentice, usually in a medical context) has
been truncated somehow, though from what I don't know.
Yes,Well they do genarally have gearboxes and transmissions, even if the
pure electrics are in effect automatics (at least they have no gearbox/"transmission"); I'm not sure about hybrids.
On 2026-10-12 14:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/10/2026 12:35, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-10-12 12:39, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/10/2026 20:33, Carlos E.R. wrote:
No. Its a lie.
Please do not set "Followup-To: poster". It is highly impolite.
On 2026-10-11 14:14, Andreas Eder wrote:
On Mo 05 Okt 2026 at 19:32, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-10-05 17:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/10/2026 14:19, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Nope. We just remember Chernobyl and Fukushima. Can happenWhich had almost no effect on anything.
again elsewhere.
It had an effect on public opinion.
Details are irrelevant.
Thousands of the people that had to clean ☝️ Chernobyl died because of
it. Some earlier, some later. That's not what I'd call no effect.
Yes, it is true. Very sad.
WHO said.
"Immediate deaths: *31 people* died directly from the explosion,
thermal/radiation burns, and Acute Radiation Syndrome (ARS) within
the first few months.
Long-term *projected deaths:* The 2005/2006 WHO and UN report
projected that up to 4,000 people among the roughly 600,000
emergency workers ("liquidators") and high-exposure residents
*could* eventually die from radiation-induced cancers"
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_due_to_the_Chernobyl_disaster>
The Chernobyl disaster, considered the worst nuclear disaster in
history, occurred on 26 April 1986 at the Chernobyl Nuclear Power
Plant in the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, then part of the
Soviet Union, now in Ukraine. From 1986 onward, the total death toll
of the disaster has lacked consensus; as peer-reviewed medical
journal The Lancet and other sources have noted, it remains
contested.[1] There is consensus that a total of approximately 30
people died from immediate blast trauma and acute radiation syndrome
(ARS) in the seconds to months after the disaster respectively, with
60 in total in the decades since, inclusive of later radiation
induced cancer.[2][3] [4] However, there is considerable debate
concerning the accurate number of projected deaths that have yet to
occur due to the disaster's long-term health effects; long-term death
estimates range from 4,000 up to 9,000 (per the 2005 and updated 2006
conclusions of a joint consortium of the United Nations) for the most
exposed people of Ukraine, Belarus, and Russia, to 16,000 cases in
total for all those exposed on the entire continent of Europe, with
figures as high as 60,000 when including the relatively minor effects
around the globe. Such numbers are based on the heavily contested
linear no-threshold model.[5]
Exactly what I said. Such numbers are based on the 'heavily
contested' linear no-threshold model (LNT)
They are not facts, They are models, estimates based on 'science' that
is *known* to be wrong. LNT isn't contested, it's thoroughly debunked
but real science.
Minimum 4000, maximum 9000. So at least 4000 deaths. Accepted by the UN. Good enough for me.
Transport(ation) is the example I usually use. But it's not always extra syllables, though I think it is commoner; however, sometimes the US word
is shorter, just to throw us - I always feel, for example, that the word "intern" (for a sort of apprentice, usually in a medical context) has
been truncated somehow, though from what I don't know.
On 2026-10-13, J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
On 2026/10/12 23:35:56, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2026-10-12, J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:[]
On 2026/10/12 10:48:7, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Transport(ation) is the example I usually use. But it's not always extraWebster understood how dumb his countrymen were and set aboutGeorge Orwell had a go at the simplifying, in 1984: definitely a
'simplifying' English as well as going polysyllabic to feed their egos >>>>
double-plus un-good thing to do.
So Webster is the reason for transportation for transport, and elevator >>>> for lift, is he?
"'Orientate' is an example of the trend toward polysyllabificationizing." >>>
syllables, though I think it is commoner; however, sometimes the US word
is shorter, just to throw us - I always feel, for example, that the word
"intern" (for a sort of apprentice, usually in a medical context) has
been truncated somehow, though from what I don't know.
My pet peeve is "preventative". Why not just "preventive"?
(I know, gotta get the syllable count up to look impressive...)
On 12/10/2026 19:45, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
Yes,Well they do genarally have gearboxes and transmissions, even if the ratio is fixed...
pure electrics are in effect automatics (at least they have no
gearbox/"transmission"); I'm not sure about hybrids.
the motor in each wheel is fairly rare
the default is manual except for luxury vehicles.
Then there is the new/old mix; we certainly don't change our cars that
often, and I imagine Spain is similar.
This seems to confirm what I thought
"AI Overview
About 92 percent of new cars ordered in the UK are automatic
transmissions, while manual cars make up only about 7.9 percent of
delivered new vehicles."
Many new drivers are taught on automatics so would need a further test
to drive a manual car.
On 2026/10/11 20:29:10, Carlos E.R. wrote:
measure called "meter" or "metre". I'm unsure which, but the dictionaryYes, American English uses the German spelling
insists it is "meter" in American English.
(also for many other
words, like theat*, cent*, etcetera).
This seems to confirm what I thought
"AI Overview
About 92 percent of new cars ordered in the UK are automatic
transmissions, while manual cars make up only about 7.9 percent of
delivered new vehicles."
Many new drivers are taught on automatics so would need a further test
to drive a manual car.
On 2026/10/12 11:7:20, Daniel70 wrote:
On 12/10/2026 5:23 pm, J. P. Gilliver wrote:[]
On 2026/10/12 3:24:9, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
[] Was that "mother very thoughtfully made some jelly sandwichesNot the mnemonic I learnt .... back in the day (early 70's) when IMaybe it's time to start a new thread on mnemonic phrases.The planets (before Pluto was demoted): "Men very easily make
:-)
jugs serve useful nocturnal purposes." :-)
had
under no persuasion"?
Trouble with that one is (a) you have to use Terra instead of Earth
(b) "jelly sandwiches" is an American concept (jelly in British
English means what I think is called Jello in US)
[I suppose we could have said jam sandwiches, but that would then not
work in US].
Personally, I never had any problem remembering the sequence of the
planets anyway
- to the extent that I had more difficulty remembering the
mnemonics!
- but then I was always what would now be called a nerd.-- J. P.
Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
"...told me to connect with the electorate, and I did!" John
Prescott on having punched the man who threw an egg at him (Top Gear, 2011-2-28)
On 12/10/2026 19:40, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
the default is manual except for luxury vehicles.
That is not what I found when I changed my car earlier this year.
On 12/10/2026 19:45, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
Then there is the new/old mix; we certainly don't change our cars that
often, and I imagine Spain is similar.
Aren't a significant proportion of new vehicles for fleet use, I suspect most hire cars will be automatic.
"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>
wrote in news:11ah3ja$32r3i$1@dont-email.me:
On 2026/10/11 20:29:10, Carlos E.R. wrote:
measure called "meter" or "metre". I'm unsure which, but the dictionaryYes, American English uses the German spelling
insists it is "meter" in American English.
I don't think we're to blame. The Americans wanted to be different, but
they didn't need German as a role model for that. "Metre" wouldn't work according to German pronunciation rules.
(also for many other
words, like theat*, cent*, etcetera).
German for "centre" is "Zentrum" though. It was borrowed directly from
Latin, not through French.
On 13/10/2026 12:21, wolfgang s wrote:
"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>I am pretty sure that the international spelling is metre and Germany is
wrote in news:11ah3ja$32r3i$1@dont-email.me:
On 2026/10/11 20:29:10, Carlos E.R. wrote:
measure called "meter" or "metre". I'm unsure which, but theYes, American English uses the German spelling
dictionary insists it is "meter" in American English.
I don't think we're to blame. The Americans wanted to be different, but
they didn't need German as a role model for that. "Metre" wouldn't work
according to German pronunciation rules.
very keen on international standards,
I would hope not. I am surprised it was from Latin though, as Germanic languages are a branch of their won separate from Romance ones.(also for many other words, like theat*, cent*, etcetera).
German for "centre" is "Zentrum" though. It was borrowed directly from
Latin, not through French.
Britain being originally Celtic replaced by Germanic and then colonised
by the viking-french
On 2026-10-12, J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
On 2026/10/12 10:48:7, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/10/2026 23:46, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
(I'm not sure where the difference in words ending -or/-our,
like honour and colour, comes from.)
Webster understood how dumb his countrymen were and set about
'simplifying' English as well as going polysyllabic to feed their egos
George Orwell had a go at the simplifying, in 1984: definitely a
double-plus un-good thing to do.
So Webster is the reason for transportation for transport, and elevator
for lift, is he?
"'Orientate' is an example of the trend toward polysyllabificationizing."
On 12/10/2026 19:40, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
the default is manual except for luxury vehicles.
That is not what I found when I changed my car earlier this year.
On 13/10/2026 01:26, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
Transport(ation) is the example I usually use. But it's not always
extra syllables, though I think it is commoner; however, sometimes the
US word is shorter, just to throw us - I always feel, for example, that
the word "intern" (for a sort of apprentice, usually in a medical
context) has been truncated somehow, though from what I don't know.
I think its just been invented. Like 'burglarise' and 'copacetic'
"First used in American English to describe an "assistant resident
physician" living and training inside a hospital. By 1963, the term
expanded to cover trainees in other fields like teaching"
So its from the French actually, and means more or less 'insider'
On 13/10/2026 07:16, Charlie Gibbs wrote:[Why am I the only one who snios? (I leave enough to give context, and
My pet peeve is "preventative". Why not just "preventive"?Or simply use prophylactic...?
(I know, gotta get the syllable count up to look impressive...)
This seems to confirm what I thought
"AI Overview
About 92 percent of new cars ordered in the UK are automatic
transmissions, while manual cars make up only about 7.9 percent of
delivered new vehicles."
Many new drivers are taught on automatics so would need a further test
to drive a manual car.
On 2026/10/13 12:8:51, JMB99 wrote:
This seems to confirm what I thought
"AI Overview
About 92 percent of new cars ordered in the UK are automatic
transmissions, while manual cars make up only about 7.9 percent of
delivered new vehicles."
Coul you re-ask the AI, specifying fuel-only cars?
On 2026/10/13 12:8:51, JMB99 wrote:
This seems to confirm what I thoughtCoul you re-ask the AI, specifying fuel-only cars?
"AI Overview
About 92 percent of new cars ordered in the UK are automatic
transmissions, while manual cars make up only about 7.9 percent of
delivered new vehicles."
Well it is for sure that you cant drive a manual without passing a testReally? I thought automatic-only test-sitting - whatever it is intended eventually to drive - was (in England) the exception rather than the
Many new drivers are taught on automatics so would need a further test
to drive a manual car.
rule, used mainly by those who find driving _at all_ difficult.>
On 2026-10-13, J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
On 2026/10/13 12:8:51, JMB99 wrote:
This seems to confirm what I thought
"AI Overview
About 92 percent of new cars ordered in the UK are automatic
transmissions, while manual cars make up only about 7.9 percent of
delivered new vehicles."
Coul you re-ask the AI, specifying fuel-only cars?
This implies, I presume, that results of searches that
do not involve AI are inadmissable to this discussion. ;-)
On 2026/10/13 8:27:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/10/2026 07:16, Charlie Gibbs wrote:[Why am I the only one who snios? (I leave enough to give context, and
keep the attribution lines correct if possible.)]
On 2026-10-13 19:40, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2026/10/13 8:27:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/10/2026 07:16, Charlie Gibbs wrote:[Why am I the only one who snios? (I leave enough to give context, and
keep the attribution lines correct if possible.)]
No idea what snios is, and I googled.
On 2026/10/13 12:8:51, JMB99 wrote:
This seems to confirm what I thoughtCoul you re-ask the AI, specifying fuel-only cars?
"AI Overview
About 92 percent of new cars ordered in the UK are automatic
transmissions, while manual cars make up only about 7.9 percent of
delivered new vehicles."
Really? I thought automatic-only test-sitting - whatever it is intended eventually to drive - was (in England) the exception rather than the
Many new drivers are taught on automatics so would need a further test
to drive a manual car.
rule, used mainly by those who find driving _at all_ difficult.>
An interesting wrinkle: when I started driving, although_new_
automatics carried the price premium mentioned,_second-hand_ ones were
often cheaper, presumably because nobody wanted them;
On 2026-10-13 19:40, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2026/10/13 8:27:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/10/2026 07:16, Charlie Gibbs wrote:[Why am I the only one who snios? (I leave enough to give context, and
keep the attribution lines correct if possible.)]
No idea what snios is, and I googled.
On 13/10/2026 18:52, J. P. Gilliver wrote:[SNIP]
On 2026/10/13 12:8:51, JMB99 wrote:
Well it is for sure that you cant drive a manual without passing a testMany new drivers are taught on automatics so would need a further testReally? I thought automatic-only test-sitting - whatever it is intended
to drive a manual car.
eventually to drive - was (in England) the exception rather than the
rule, used mainly by those who find driving _at all_ difficult.>
in one
Or an HGV or PSV...
But as far as manual transmissions go, software multi ratio boxes, and
the demise of torque converters have made automatics almost as good as manuals on performance and price...the Ford Focus comes with an 8 speed
auto box these days, although even that may be out of date - most are
now Hybrids
"Carlos E.R." wrote:
On 2026-10-13 19:40, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2026/10/13 8:27:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/10/2026 07:16, Charlie Gibbs wrote:[Why am I the only one who snios? (I leave enough to give context, and
keep the attribution lines correct if possible.)]
No idea what snios is, and I googled.
Think typo.
I just noticed a driving school car that stopped to let me cross the
street at a designated crossing. I noticed that when I passed it
stalled, something that is typical of novices with a manual shift :-)
My guess is that driving students choose to learn with a manual, because
the license allows them to drive any car. More useful. And possibly
manual cars are smaller and cheaper.
On 2026-10-13 19:40, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2026/10/13 8:27:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/10/2026 07:16, Charlie Gibbs wrote:[Why am I the only one who snios? (I leave enough to give context, and
keep the attribution lines correct if possible.)]
No idea what snios is, and I googled.
On 13/10/2026 19:47, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
An interesting wrinkle: when I started driving, although_new_
automatics carried the price premium mentioned,_second-hand_ ones were
often cheaper, presumably because nobody wanted them;
The thing is, a luxury car - Mercedes, or Jaguar, is worthless when old.
It chews fuel compared with a tinplate shopping trolley and it cots a
fair bit to keep on the road. And its lost the swank factor.
No one wants them, except people like us who can pick up a really good
deal on a 10 year old auto luxury car for far less than a clapped out 5
year old shopping trolley. And have money left over to fix it and feed
it with fuel
On 2026/10/13 19:54:23, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-10-13 19:40, J. P. Gilliver wrote:Sorry - mistyle for "snips". I'm mistyping (!) a lot more these days!
On 2026/10/13 8:27:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/10/2026 07:16, Charlie Gibbs wrote:[Why am I the only one who snios? (I leave enough to give context, and
keep the attribution lines correct if possible.)]
No idea what snios is, and I googled.
On 2026/10/13 19:59:15, Carlos E.R. wrote:
[]
I just noticed a driving school car that stopped to let me cross the
street at a designated crossing. I noticed that when I passed it
stalled, something that is typical of novices with a manual shift :-)
My guess is that driving students choose to learn with a manual, because
the license allows them to drive any car. More useful. And possibly
I'm sure you are right for someone learning to drive, for that licence reason; but there are (or were? Not sure if still) models that turn off
the engine whenever the car is stationary for more than a preset short period. they have bigger batteries for all the extra starts, and I think _may_ have regen. braking to help keep it charged - so could be (and no
doubt are) called hybrids, but they aren't really, in that there is no electric _propulsion_ involved. [Are those what are/were called "mild hybrids"?]
--manual cars are smaller and cheaper.I think so, still, at least for basic models. Though
tariffs/quotas/whatever may change that, if it hasn't already.
On 2026-10-13, J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
On 2026/10/13 12:8:51, JMB99 wrote:
This seems to confirm what I thought
"AI Overview
About 92 percent of new cars ordered in the UK are automatic
transmissions, while manual cars make up only about 7.9 percent of
delivered new vehicles."
Coul you re-ask the AI, specifying fuel-only cars?
This implies, I presume, that results of searches that
do not involve AI are inadmissable to this discussion. ;-)
On 2026-10-13 21:21, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2026/10/13 19:54:23, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-10-13 19:40, J. P. Gilliver wrote:Sorry - mistyle for "snips". I'm mistyping (!) a lot more these days!
On 2026/10/13 8:27:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/10/2026 07:16, Charlie Gibbs wrote:[Why am I the only one who snios? (I leave enough to give context, and >>>> keep the attribution lines correct if possible.)]
No idea what snios is, and I googled.
Ah! :-)
Yes, I try to snip when the post is too long.
start-stop system. I had one, and I liked it; an Opel Corsa diesel. It
saves some fuel on city traffic. It just stops the motor when you are stopped in neutral. Mine restarted the motor after a few minutes, or of course, when footing the clutch. It is not an hybrid.
I saw another model from Peugeot that used a secondary battery for this system.
Some cars use the alternator to start.
"Carlos E.R." wrote:
start-stop system. I had one, and I liked it; an Opel Corsa diesel. It
saves some fuel on city traffic. It just stops the motor when you are
stopped in neutral. Mine restarted the motor after a few minutes, or of
course, when footing the clutch. It is not an hybrid.
I saw another model from Peugeot that used a secondary battery for this
system.
Some cars use the alternator to start.
My last one did that, needed a larger battery than normal.
Had to have a new fan belt and pulley tensioner at 2 years old (warranty replacement)
On 2026-10-13, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
"Carlos E.R." wrote:
start-stop system. I had one, and I liked it; an Opel Corsa diesel. It
saves some fuel on city traffic. It just stops the motor when you are
stopped in neutral. Mine restarted the motor after a few minutes, or of >>> course, when footing the clutch. It is not an hybrid.
I saw another model from Peugeot that used a secondary battery for this >>> system.
Some cars use the alternator to start.
My last one did that, needed a larger battery than normal.
Had to have a new fan belt and pulley tensioner at 2 years old (warranty
replacement)
Just out of curiosity, how's the starter life on these cars?
The starter is being used probably 10 times as much as
cars that don't stop and start at every light.
A mechanic friend pointed out that there is also 10 times
as great a probability that you're going to break a tooth
on the flywheel. That would get into big bucks.
On 2026/10/13 20:0:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/10/2026 19:47, J. P. Gilliver wrote:There's a lot in what you say! That Ventora - not, to me, a known luxury model, but _any_ 3.3 litre car in Britain was (still is, somewhat) a
An interesting wrinkle: when I started driving, although_new_
automatics carried the price premium mentioned,_second-hand_ ones were
often cheaper, presumably because nobody wanted them;
The thing is, a luxury car - Mercedes, or Jaguar, is worthless when old.
It chews fuel compared with a tinplate shopping trolley and it cots a
fair bit to keep on the road. And its lost the swank factor.
No one wants them, except people like us who can pick up a really good
deal on a 10 year old auto luxury car for far less than a clapped out 5
year old shopping trolley. And have money left over to fix it and feed
it with fuel
luxury car - and, as you say, I had enough to maintain and feed it. (It certainly was _comfortable_.) Wasn't hard to maintain - K reg, so old
enough to have nothing fancy (except automatic choke, which was a
pain!), and that straight six engine - same as a Bedford truck, someone
told me - was such that a small person could have stood in the engine compartment next to it. (The car was vaguely Capri-shaped, but longer bonnet.)
On Tue, 10/13/2026 7:52 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2026-10-13, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
"Carlos E.R." wrote:
start-stop system. I had one, and I liked it; an Opel Corsa diesel. It >>>> saves some fuel on city traffic. It just stops the motor when you are >>>> stopped in neutral. Mine restarted the motor after a few minutes, or of >>>> course, when footing the clutch. It is not an hybrid.
I saw another model from Peugeot that used a secondary battery for this >>>> system.
Some cars use the alternator to start.
My last one did that, needed a larger battery than normal.
Had to have a new fan belt and pulley tensioner at 2 years old (warranty >>> replacement)
Just out of curiosity, how's the starter life on these cars?
The starter is being used probably 10 times as much as
cars that don't stop and start at every light.
A mechanic friend pointed out that there is also 10 times
as great a probability that you're going to break a tooth
on the flywheel. That would get into big bucks.
Various bits get redesigned.
https://www.powerelectronictips.com/understanding-stop-start-automobile-engine-design-part-4-mechanical-wear-issues/
No; if you're willing to do the hard slog yourself, go ahead! And yes, I
do appreciate that AI results can be misleading.
On 10/13/26 15:28, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2026/10/13 20:0:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/10/2026 19:47, J. P. Gilliver wrote:There's a lot in what you say! That Ventora - not, to me, a known luxury
An interesting wrinkle: when I started driving, although_new_
automatics carried the price premium mentioned,_second-hand_ ones were >>>> often cheaper, presumably because nobody wanted them;
The thing is, a luxury car - Mercedes, or Jaguar, is worthless when old. >>> It chews fuel compared with a tinplate shopping trolley and it cots a
fair bit to keep on the road. And its lost the swank factor.
No one wants them, except people like us who can pick up a really good
deal on a 10 year old auto luxury car for far less than a clapped out 5
year old shopping trolley. And have money left over to fix it and feed
it with fuel
model, but _any_ 3.3 litre car in Britain was (still is, somewhat) a
luxury car - and, as you say, I had enough to maintain and feed it. (It
certainly was _comfortable_.) Wasn't hard to maintain - K reg, so old
enough to have nothing fancy (except automatic choke, which was a
pain!), and that straight six engine - same as a Bedford truck, someone
told me - was such that a small person could have stood in the engine
compartment next to it. (The car was vaguely Capri-shaped, but longer
bonnet.)
DID like the cars with the long bonnets. The
modern 'snub-nosed', not nearly as aesthetic.
And try to WORK on the packed-in engines !
Intentional ?
3.3 is "luxury" in the UK ??? Considered
a 'mid-sized' in the USA :-)
The thing is, a luxury car - Mercedes, or Jaguar, is worthless when old.
It chews fuel compared with a tinplate shopping trolley and it cots a
fair bit to keep on the road. And its lost the swank factor.
There's a lot in what you say! That Ventora - not, to me, a known luxury model, but _any_ 3.3 litre car in Britain was (still is, somewhat) a
luxury car - and, as you say, I had enough to maintain and feed it. (It certainly was _comfortable_.) Wasn't hard to maintain - K reg, so old
enough to have nothing fancy (except automatic choke, which was a
pain!),
and that straight six engine - same as a Bedford truck, someone told me
-
was such that a small person could have stood in the engine compartment
next to it. (The car was vaguely Capri-shaped, but longer bonnet.)
In UK. I don't _think_ US has the two types of licence - I can't speak
for other countries. I think a US visitor to UK can legally drive a
manual, even if has never done so - for as long as their licence remains valid in the UK (2 or 3 years, I think). Whether they can get
_insurance_, I don't know - I would _hope_ hire companies, for example,
ask the question, but how easy it is for them to check the honesty of
the answer, I don't know.>
I'm sure you are right for someone learning to drive, for that licence reason; but there are (or were? Not sure if still) models that turn off
the engine whenever the car is stationary for more than a preset short period. they have bigger batteries for all the extra starts, and I think _may_ have regen. braking to help keep it charged - so could be (and no
doubt are) called hybrids, but they aren't really, in that there is no electric _propulsion_ involved. [Are those what are/were called "mild hybrids"?]
On 2026-10-14, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
On Tue, 10/13/2026 7:52 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2026-10-13, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
"Carlos E.R." wrote:
start-stop system. I had one, and I liked it; an Opel Corsa diesel. It >>>>> saves some fuel on city traffic. It just stops the motor when you are >>>>> stopped in neutral. Mine restarted the motor after a few minutes, or of >>>>> course, when footing the clutch. It is not an hybrid.
I saw another model from Peugeot that used a secondary battery for this >>>>> system.
Some cars use the alternator to start.
My last one did that, needed a larger battery than normal.
Had to have a new fan belt and pulley tensioner at 2 years old (warranty >>>> replacement)
Just out of curiosity, how's the starter life on these cars?
The starter is being used probably 10 times as much as
cars that don't stop and start at every light.
A mechanic friend pointed out that there is also 10 times
as great a probability that you're going to break a tooth
on the flywheel. That would get into big bucks.
Various bits get redesigned.
https://www.powerelectronictips.com/understanding-stop-start-automobile-engine-design-part-4-mechanical-wear-issues/
Wow. Looks like some people have actually been giving this
some thought. I guess I've just become too jaded by decades
of exposure to shitty software design. I'm saving those
references for when I have time to read more of them.
I am gratified to see that my 10x estimate is on the money.
Looks like my brain's SWAG (scientific wild-assed guess)
mechanism is still in good working order.
On Tue, 10/13/2026 10:51 PM, c186282 wrote:
On 10/13/26 15:28, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2026/10/13 20:0:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/10/2026 19:47, J. P. Gilliver wrote:There's a lot in what you say! That Ventora - not, to me, a known luxury >>> model, but _any_ 3.3 litre car in Britain was (still is, somewhat) a
An interesting wrinkle: when I started driving, although_new_
automatics carried the price premium mentioned,_second-hand_ ones were >>>>> often cheaper, presumably because nobody wanted them;
The thing is, a luxury car - Mercedes, or Jaguar, is worthless when old. >>>> It chews fuel compared with a tinplate shopping trolley and it cots a
fair bit to keep on the road. And its lost the swank factor.
No one wants them, except people like us who can pick up a really good >>>> deal on a 10 year old auto luxury car for far less than a clapped out 5 >>>> year old shopping trolley. And have money left over to fix it and feed >>>> it with fuel
luxury car - and, as you say, I had enough to maintain and feed it. (It
certainly was _comfortable_.) Wasn't hard to maintain - K reg, so old
enough to have nothing fancy (except automatic choke, which was a
pain!), and that straight six engine - same as a Bedford truck, someone
told me - was such that a small person could have stood in the engine
compartment next to it. (The car was vaguely Capri-shaped, but longer
bonnet.)
DID like the cars with the long bonnets. The
modern 'snub-nosed', not nearly as aesthetic.
And try to WORK on the packed-in engines !
Intentional ?
3.3 is "luxury" in the UK ??? Considered
a 'mid-sized' in the USA :-)
Well, petrol is expensive there, so there's no particular
advantage to "driving a boat". You'd just end up leaving it
at home.
Just out of curiosity, how's the starter life on these cars?
The starter is being used probably 10 times as much as
cars that don't stop and start at every light.
A mechanic friend pointed out that there is also 10 times
as great a probability that you're going to break a tooth
on the flywheel. That would get into big bucks.
DID like the cars with the long bonnets. The
modern 'snub-nosed', not nearly as aesthetic.
And try to WORK on the packed-in engines !
Intentional ?
On Tue, 10/13/2026 10:51 PM, c186282 wrote:
On 10/13/26 15:28, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2026/10/13 20:0:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/10/2026 19:47, J. P. Gilliver wrote:There's a lot in what you say! That Ventora - not, to me, a known luxury >>> model, but _any_ 3.3 litre car in Britain was (still is, somewhat) a
An interesting wrinkle: when I started driving, although_new_
automatics carried the price premium mentioned,_second-hand_ ones were >>>>> often cheaper, presumably because nobody wanted them;
The thing is, a luxury car - Mercedes, or Jaguar, is worthless when old. >>>> It chews fuel compared with a tinplate shopping trolley and it cots a
fair bit to keep on the road. And its lost the swank factor.
No one wants them, except people like us who can pick up a really good >>>> deal on a 10 year old auto luxury car for far less than a clapped out 5 >>>> year old shopping trolley. And have money left over to fix it and feed >>>> it with fuel
luxury car - and, as you say, I had enough to maintain and feed it. (It
certainly was _comfortable_.) Wasn't hard to maintain - K reg, so old
enough to have nothing fancy (except automatic choke, which was a
pain!), and that straight six engine - same as a Bedford truck, someone
told me - was such that a small person could have stood in the engine
compartment next to it. (The car was vaguely Capri-shaped, but longer
bonnet.)
DID like the cars with the long bonnets. The
modern 'snub-nosed', not nearly as aesthetic.
And try to WORK on the packed-in engines !
Intentional ?
3.3 is "luxury" in the UK ??? Considered
a 'mid-sized' in the USA :-)
Well, petrol is expensive there, so there's no particular
advantage to "driving a boat". You'd just end up leaving it
at home.
A mechanic friend pointed out that there is also 10 times
as great a probability that you're going to break a tooth
on the flywheel.
Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Just out of curiosity, how's the starter life on these cars?
The starter is being used probably 10 times as much as
cars that don't stop and start at every light.
I had the car for 8 years, it was ok for that time, which I'd expect, I don't aim to own cars for long enough for them to start going wrong.
A mechanic friend pointed out that there is also 10 times
as great a probability that you're going to break a tooth
on the flywheel. That would get into big bucks.
It had a 'normal' pinion starter (i.e. with teeth) but when it did the stop/start trick, it used the alternator as a secondary starter, and the start was much quicker than a cold start, so it turned the engine via
the ribbed 'fan' belt, therefore no teeth to break.
It had rules for when it would use stop/start (oil temp not too cold, battery charge not too low, aircon not working too hard, etc)
German for "centre" is "Zentrum" though. It was borrowed directly fromI would hope not. I am surprised it was from Latin though, as Germanic languages are a branch of their won separate from Romance ones.
Latin, not through French.
On 2026/10/13 12:8:51, JMB99 wrote:
Many new drivers are taught on automatics so would need a further testReally? I thought automatic-only test-sitting - whatever it is intended eventually to drive - was (in England) the exception rather than the
to drive a manual car.
rule, used mainly by those who find driving _at all_ difficult.>
On 2026-10-13, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
"Carlos E.R." wrote:
start-stop system. I had one, and I liked it; an Opel Corsa diesel. It
saves some fuel on city traffic. It just stops the motor when you are
stopped in neutral. Mine restarted the motor after a few minutes, or of
course, when footing the clutch. It is not an hybrid.
I saw another model from Peugeot that used a secondary battery for this
system.
Some cars use the alternator to start.
My last one did that, needed a larger battery than normal.
Had to have a new fan belt and pulley tensioner at 2 years old (warranty
replacement)
Just out of curiosity, how's the starter life on these cars?
The starter is being used probably 10 times as much as
cars that don't stop and start at every light.
A mechanic friend pointed out that there is also 10 times
as great a probability that you're going to break a tooth
on the flywheel. That would get into big bucks.
"Carlos E.R." wrote:
start-stop system. I had one, and I liked it; an Opel Corsa diesel. It
saves some fuel on city traffic. It just stops the motor when you are
stopped in neutral. Mine restarted the motor after a few minutes, or
of course, when footing the clutch. It is not an hybrid.
I saw another model from Peugeot that used a secondary battery for
this system.
Some cars use the alternator to start.
My last one did that, needed a larger battery than normal.
Had to have a new fan belt and pulley tensioner at 2 years old (warranty replacement)
On Tue, 10/13/2026 7:52 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2026-10-13, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
"Carlos E.R." wrote:
start-stop system. I had one, and I liked it; an Opel Corsa diesel. It >>>> saves some fuel on city traffic. It just stops the motor when you are
stopped in neutral. Mine restarted the motor after a few minutes, or of >>>> course, when footing the clutch. It is not an hybrid.
I saw another model from Peugeot that used a secondary battery for this >>>> system.
Some cars use the alternator to start.
My last one did that, needed a larger battery than normal.
Had to have a new fan belt and pulley tensioner at 2 years old (warranty >>> replacement)
Just out of curiosity, how's the starter life on these cars?
The starter is being used probably 10 times as much as
cars that don't stop and start at every light.
A mechanic friend pointed out that there is also 10 times
as great a probability that you're going to break a tooth
on the flywheel. That would get into big bucks.
Various bits get redesigned.
https://www.powerelectronictips.com/understanding-stop-start-automobile-engine-design-part-4-mechanical-wear-issues/
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
wrote in news:11alc8j$iamu$9@dont-email.me:
German for "centre" is "Zentrum" though. It was borrowed directly fromI would hope not. I am surprised it was from Latin though, as Germanic
Latin, not through French.
languages are a branch of their won separate from Romance ones.
All European languages borrowed heavily from Greek, Latin and French, regardless how closely related.
On 2026-10-14 00:15, Andy Burns wrote:
"Carlos E.R." wrote:
start-stop system. I had one, and I liked it; an Opel Corsa diesel.
It saves some fuel on city traffic. It just stops the motor when you
are stopped in neutral. Mine restarted the motor after a few minutes,
or of course, when footing the clutch. It is not an hybrid.
I saw another model from Peugeot that used a secondary battery for
this system.
Some cars use the alternator to start.
My last one did that, needed a larger battery than normal.
Had to have a new fan belt and pulley tensioner at 2 years old
(warranty replacement)
Fan belt? You actually had a fan moved by a belt? I have not seen that
in forty years, here (AFAIK) all the fans are electric.
Unless "fan belt" is just the name.
Typically the belt moves the alternator, the water pump, maybe the air conditioner compressor...
Some brands had the bright idea of having a cam shaft rubber belt
submerged in oil (groan).
Carlos E.R. wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
Had to have a new fan belt and pulley tensioner at 2 years old
(warranty replacement)
Fan belt? You actually had a fan moved by a belt? I have not seen that
in forty years, here (AFAIK) all the fans are electric.
Unless "fan belt" is just the name.
we tend to call it a fan belt even when its really an auxiliiary drive belt
On 2026/10/12 10:48:7, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/10/2026 23:46, J. P. Gilliver wrote:George Orwell had a go at the simplifying, in 1984: definitely a
(I'm not sure where the difference in words ending -or/-our,Webster understood how dumb his countrymen were and set about
like honour and colour, comes from.)
'simplifying' English as well as going polysyllabic to feed their egos
double-plus un-good thing to do.
So Webster is the reason for transportation for transport, and elevator
for lift, is he?
On 2026-10-13 20:57, Andy Burns wrote:
"Carlos E.R." wrote:
On 2026-10-13 19:40, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2026/10/13 8:27:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/10/2026 07:16, Charlie Gibbs wrote:[Why am I the only one who snios? (I leave enough to give context, and >>>> keep the attribution lines correct if possible.)]
No idea what snios is, and I googled.
Think typo.
My single neuron on duty comes out empty.
On 10/14/26 00:32, Paul wrote:
On Tue, 10/13/2026 10:51 PM, c186282 wrote:
On 10/13/26 15:28, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2026/10/13 20:0:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/10/2026 19:47, J. P. Gilliver wrote:There's a lot in what you say! That Ventora - not, to me, a known luxury >>>> model, but _any_ 3.3 litre car in Britain was (still is, somewhat) a
An interesting wrinkle: when I started driving, although_new_
automatics carried the price premium mentioned,_second-hand_ ones were >>>>>> often cheaper, presumably because nobody wanted them;
The thing is, a luxury car - Mercedes, or Jaguar, is worthless when old. >>>>> It chews fuel compared with a tinplate shopping trolley and it cots a >>>>> fair bit to keep on the road. And its lost the swank factor.
No one wants them, except people like us who can pick up a really good >>>>> deal on a 10 year old auto luxury car for far less than a clapped out 5 >>>>> year old shopping trolley. And have money left over to fix it and feed >>>>> it with fuel
luxury car - and, as you say, I had enough to maintain and feed it. (It >>>> certainly was _comfortable_.) Wasn't hard to maintain - K reg, so old
enough to have nothing fancy (except automatic choke, which was a
pain!), and that straight six engine - same as a Bedford truck, someone >>>> told me - was such that a small person could have stood in the engine
compartment next to it. (The car was vaguely Capri-shaped, but longer
bonnet.)
DID like the cars with the long bonnets. The
modern 'snub-nosed', not nearly as aesthetic.
And try to WORK on the packed-in engines !
Intentional ?
I think it's been true to say that for some years, most models widely
3.3 is "luxury" in the UK ??? Considered
a 'mid-sized' in the USA :-)
Well, petrol is expensive there, so there's no particular
advantage to "driving a boat". You'd just end up leaving it
at home.
In USA we often call boats "a hole in the ocean
into which you pour money" :-)
On 2026/10/13 21:9:56, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-10-13 21:21, J. P. Gilliver wrote:Judging by this thread alone, you and I are very much in the minority.
On 2026/10/13 19:54:23, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-10-13 19:40, J. P. Gilliver wrote:Sorry - mistyle for "snips". I'm mistyping (!) a lot more these days!
On 2026/10/13 8:27:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/10/2026 07:16, Charlie Gibbs wrote:[Why am I the only one who snios? (I leave enough to give context, and >>>>> keep the attribution lines correct if possible.)]
No idea what snios is, and I googled.
Ah! :-)
Yes, I try to snip when the post is too long.
Andy Burns wrote:
I don't aim to own cars for long enough for them to start going wrong.
There is some logic in that.
However it'd sure be NICE to have a car
that'd hold up really well for 200k miles
or so. Toyotas ? Maybe worth the extra $$$.
A mechanic friend pointed out that there is also 10 times
as great a probability that you're going to break a tooth
on the flywheel. That would get into big bucks.
What, with modern design/engineering they can't
make a robust flywheel ????????
Bullshit !
USA cars, 1959, WORKED. The flywheels would not
fall apart. The valve train would not fall apart.
Even the damned starter motor - it could be
replaced quick cheap and easy.
What the fuck HAPPENED - and WHY did we put
up with it ???????
Past time for a new American brand - something
truly "robust" and dead functional.
This seems to confirm what I thought
"AI Overview
About 92 percent of new cars ordered in the UK are automatic
transmissions, while manual cars make up only about 7.9 percent of
delivered new vehicles."
Many new drivers are taught on automatics so would need a further test
to drive a manual car.
On 14/10/2026 8:02 am, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2026/10/13 21:9:56, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-10-13 21:21, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2026/10/13 19:54:23, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-10-13 19:40, J. P. Gilliver wrote:Sorry - mistyle for "snips". I'm mistyping (!) a lot more these days!
On 2026/10/13 8:27:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/10/2026 07:16, Charlie Gibbs wrote:[Why am I the only one who snios? (I leave enough to give context, and >>>>>> keep the attribution lines correct if possible.)]
No idea what snios is, and I googled.
Ah! :-)
Yes, I try to snip when the post is too long.
I think the problem might be with "too long"!Judging by this thread alone, you and I are very much in the minority.
Your "too long" could be my "just getting started"!! ;-p
On 10/14/26 03:02, Andy Burns wrote:[SNIP]
USA cars, 1959, WORKED. The flywheels would not
fall apart. The valve train would not fall apart.
Even the damned starter motor - it could be
replaced quick cheap and easy.
What the fuck HAPPENED - and WHY did we put
up with it ???????
Past time for a new American brand - something
truly "robust" and dead functional.
The Natural Philosopher wrote:[]
we tend to call it a fan belt even when its really an auxiliiary drive belt
I thought I'd written fan in scare quotes ...
On 10/13/26 15:28, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2026/10/13 20:0:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/10/2026 19:47, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
DID like the cars with the long bonnets. The
modern 'snub-nosed', not nearly as aesthetic.
And try to WORK on the packed-in engines !
Intentional ?
3.3 is "luxury" in the UK ??? Considered
a 'mid-sized' in the USA :-)
On 2026/10/14 9:42:31, c186282 wrote:
On 10/14/26 03:02, Andy Burns wrote:[SNIP]
USA cars, 1959, WORKED. The flywheels would notTrouble is, because of the extra metal, and the design effort needing to
fall apart. The valve train would not fall apart.
Even the damned starter motor - it could be
replaced quick cheap and easy.
What the fuck HAPPENED - and WHY did we put
up with it ???????
Past time for a new American brand - something
truly "robust" and dead functional.
be paid for, you'd end up with something costing more for the same
(possibly even slightly worse because heavier) performance - which
wouldn't sell. Sure, people'd get their money back eventually - but
would have to keep the car (or other consumer product) long enough to
see it, and many can't look that far ahead - and that's before the
modern obsession with always having the latest. ("I don't change my
'phone every time the bell rings" - Sir David Attenborough.)
(You can leave the "American" out - same applies everywhere.)
So there's little incentive for the manufacturers to develop such a
product. There _would_ be a market - but not big enough to get the
economies of scale. (Plus, the manufacturers _like_ us to buy new every
X years, of course.)
My guess is that driving students choose to learn with a manual, because
the license allows them to drive any car.
On 13/10/2026 4:28 am, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2026/10/12 10:48:7, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Just as well we both speak English!!
On 11/10/2026 23:46, J. P. Gilliver wrote:George Orwell had a go at the simplifying, in 1984: definitely a
(I'm not sure where the difference in words ending -or/-our,Webster understood how dumb his countrymen were and set about
like honour and colour, comes from.)
'simplifying' English as well as going polysyllabic to feed their egos
double-plus un-good thing to do.
So Webster is the reason for transportation for transport, and elevator
for lift, is he?
On 13/10/2026 4:28 am, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2026/10/12 10:48:7, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Just as well we both speak English!!
On 11/10/2026 23:46, J. P. Gilliver wrote:George Orwell had a go at the simplifying, in 1984: definitely a
(I'm not sure where the difference in words ending -or/-our,Webster understood how dumb his countrymen were and set about
like honour and colour, comes from.)
'simplifying' English as well as going polysyllabic to feed their egos
double-plus un-good thing to do.
So Webster is the reason for transportation for transport, and elevator
for lift, is he?
On 14/10/2026 14:01, Daniel70 wrote:
On 13/10/2026 4:28 am, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2026/10/12 10:48:7, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Just as well we both speak English!!
On 11/10/2026 23:46, J. P. Gilliver wrote:George Orwell had a go at the simplifying, in 1984: definitely a
(I'm not sure where the difference in words ending -or/-our,Webster understood how dumb his countrymen were and set about
like honour and colour, comes from.)
'simplifying' English as well as going polysyllabic to feed their
egos
double-plus un-good thing to do.
So Webster is the reason for transportation for transport, and
elevator for lift, is he?
No. That is American inferiority complex.
It took me over a year to decide which type of 'compact' SUV to buy,
it's so nice to just step in and have the seat naturally be at
arse-height, and step out and have the ground naturally be at the level
my feet reach.
I still haven't got used to the different visibility from the snub nose
and slab sides though.
European cars mostly can GO ROUND CORNERS because roads follow old
droving tracks that wove in and out of trees and streams long after the
trees and streams were gone.
I had basically the same car, but with just a 1.1 L engine, 42 "horses".
They could put 3 engines like that in the same space. So with just one
engine there was space for a full litter of kittens and another of dogs,
2 month old, with room to spare.
Fan belt? You actually had a fan moved by a belt? I have not seen that
in forty years, here (AFAIK) all the fans are electric.
yes, Cam belts are quiet, in oil they are even quieter, They have even
more limited life
Though I did discover (I think it was on my current one, which isn't
really a snub-nose) that the packed-in appearance you see when you lift
the bonnet (hood) is at least partly because there's a moulded piece of
black plastic which makes the whole underbonnet area look neat, and full
(and _may_ have some effect on airflow, though I doubt it); when you
remove that, what's underneath looks much as I expected a car engine to
look.
It's for people who thing that clutch control/gear changing is the most difficult part of driving, when it's just a mechanical/muscular process
that, once learnt is never forgotten, whereas the difficult part of
driving is working out what other road users are doing and avoiding
crashing into people/vehicles/objects.
On Wed, 14 Oct 2026 11:34:20 +0100, Max Demian wrote:
It's for people who thing that clutch control/gear changing is the most
difficult part of driving, when it's just a mechanical/muscular process
that, once learnt is never forgotten, whereas the difficult part of
driving is working out what other road users are doing and avoiding
crashing into people/vehicles/objects.
A Volvo White truck I drove had a 9 speed overdrive transmission. The
basic shift pattern was
1 2
3 4
I put over 100,000 on that truck and still would blow shifts if I wasn't paying attention. Muscle memory isn't always a good thing.
On 14/10/2026 10:57, wolfgang s wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>In fact they don't
wrote in news:11alc8j$iamu$9@dont-email.me:
German for "centre" is "Zentrum" though. It was borrowed directlyI would hope not. I am surprised it was from Latin though, as
from Latin, not through French.
Germanic languages are a branch of their won separate from Romance
ones.
All European languages borrowed heavily from Greek, Latin and French,
regardless how closely related.
That is simply one branch of the Indo European tree.
Not only are there other branches but there are even other trees.
Almost no language is based on Greek
That in modern times the default second language is English and words
get borrowed to augment existing vocabularies is neither here nor there
Le weekend, schadenfreude, Weltanschauung, zeitgeist, are NOT borrowed
from Latin Greek or French
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
wrote in news:11alc8j$iamu$9@dont-email.me:
German for "centre" is "Zentrum" though. It was borrowed directly fromI would hope not. I am surprised it was from Latin though, as Germanic
Latin, not through French.
languages are a branch of their won separate from Romance ones.
All European languages borrowed heavily from Greek, Latin and French, regardless how closely related.
Heard once, but not SURE, that the Basque language
seems unique, independent.
On 10/14/26 05:57, wolfgang s wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
wrote in news:11alc8j$iamu$9@dont-email.me:
German for "centre" is "Zentrum" though. It was borrowed directly from >>>> Latin, not through French.I would hope not. I am surprised it was from Latin though, as Germanic
languages are a branch of their won separate from Romance ones.
All European languages borrowed heavily from Greek, Latin and French,
regardless how closely related.
They were biggie cultures, so they had widespread
influence. There are also mutant terms from Iran
and even India mixed-in early on. It's why they
call the whole mess the "Indo-European" language
family.
Heard once, but not SURE, that the Basque language
seems unique, independent.
On 2026-10-15 05:14, c186282 wrote:
On 10/14/26 05:57, wolfgang s wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
wrote in news:11alc8j$iamu$9@dont-email.me:
German for "centre" is "Zentrum" though. It was borrowed directly from >>>>> Latin, not through French.I would hope not. I am surprised it was from Latin though, as Germanic >>>> languages are a branch of their won separate from Romance ones.
All European languages borrowed heavily from Greek, Latin and French,
regardless how closely related.
They were biggie cultures, so they had widespread
influence. There are also mutant terms from Iran
and even India mixed-in early on. It's why they
call the whole mess the "Indo-European" language
family.
Heard once, but not SURE, that the Basque language
seems unique, independent.
That's the claim, yes. The issue is not certain. Its origins are not
really known.
On 15/10/2026 14:32, Carlos E.R. wrote:[]
On 2026-10-15 05:14, c186282 wrote:
On 10/14/26 05:57, wolfgang s wrote:
All European languages borrowed heavily from Greek, Latin and French,
regardless how closely related.
They were biggie cultures, so they had widespread
influence. There are also mutant terms from Iran
and even India mixed-in early on. It's why they
call the whole mess the "Indo-European" language
family.
Heard once, but not SURE, that the Basque language
seems unique, independent.
That's the claim, yes. The issue is not certain. Its origins are not
really known.
Its not soi much a claim as an observation that none of it bears any resemblance to any indo European language whatsoever. Or indeed any
other language in existence.
The Basques might as well have arrived on a spaceship 1000 years ago...escaping a mutant star-goat*
*From Golgafrincham
The Golgafrinchans realised that were three types of beings on the
planet of Golgafrincham: the leaders (or thinkers), the workers (or
doers), and the middlemen.
The leaders contained the artists and "achievers". The workers were the people who "did all the actual work", and who made and did things. The middle management was comprised of hairdressers, telephone sanitisers,
and other such "worthless jobs."
The group of leaders built a ship and convinced the middlemen to leave Golgafrincham by telling them several different reasons, including: that
the planet was going to crash into the sun (or perhaps the moon was
going to crash into the planet), that the planet was being invaded by a gigantic swarm of twelve foot piranha bees, and that "the entire planet
was in imminent danger of being eaten by an enormous mutant star goat
On 10/14/26 05:57, wolfgang s wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
wrote in news:11alc8j$iamu$9@dont-email.me:
German for "centre" is "Zentrum" though. It was borrowed directly from >>>> Latin, not through French.I would hope not. I am surprised it was from Latin though, as Germanic
languages are a branch of their won separate from Romance ones.
All European languages borrowed heavily from Greek, Latin and French,
regardless how closely related.
They were biggie cultures, so they had widespread
influence. There are also mutant terms from Iran
and even India mixed-in early on. It's why they
call the whole mess the "Indo-European" language
family.
On 2026/10/15 14:57:0, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/10/2026 14:32, Carlos E.R. wrote:[]
On 2026-10-15 05:14, c186282 wrote:
On 10/14/26 05:57, wolfgang s wrote:
All European languages borrowed heavily from Greek, Latin and French, >>>>> regardless how closely related.
They were biggie cultures, so they had widespread
influence. There are also mutant terms from Iran
and even India mixed-in early on. It's why they
call the whole mess the "Indo-European" language
family.
Heard once, but not SURE, that the Basque language
seems unique, independent.
That's the claim, yes. The issue is not certain. Its origins are not
really known.
I've heard a similar claim about Welsh - or rather, that there is one language it _does_ have some commonality with, but it's not one used in
any of the neighbouring countries.
though looking at the two of them now, I can see very little
commonality, so I might be remembering that wrong[ly]. [I don't actually speak either of them.])
Nut they made sure that the middle tranche were shipped off the planetIts not soi much a claim as an observation that none of it bears any
resemblance to any indo European language whatsoever. Or indeed any
other language in existence.
The Basques might as well have arrived on a spaceship 1000 years
ago...escaping a mutant star-goat*
*From Golgafrincham
The Golgafrinchans realised that were three types of beings on the
planet of Golgafrincham: the leaders (or thinkers), the workers (or
doers), and the middlemen.
The leaders contained the artists and "achievers". The workers were the
people who "did all the actual work", and who made and did things. The
middle management was comprised of hairdressers, telephone sanitisers,
and other such "worthless jobs."
The group of leaders built a ship and convinced the middlemen to leave
Golgafrincham by telling them several different reasons, including: that
the planet was going to crash into the sun (or perhaps the moon was
going to crash into the planet), that the planet was being invaded by a
gigantic swarm of twelve foot piranha bees, and that "the entire planet
was in imminent danger of being eaten by an enormous mutant star goat
first - in the "B ark".
Once they'd done that, they sat back and relaxed, having rid themselves
of an entire useless third of the population. Until they were wiped out
by a plague caught from an unexpectedly dirty telephone.
DNA was taken from us far too soon. (And Victoria Wood.)
On 15/10/2026 04:14, c186282 wrote:
On 10/14/26 05:57, wolfgang s wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
wrote in news:11alc8j$iamu$9@dont-email.me:
German for "centre" is "Zentrum" though. It was borrowed directly from >>>>> Latin, not through French.I would hope not. I am surprised it was from Latin though, as Germanic >>>> languages are a branch of their won separate from Romance ones.
All European languages borrowed heavily from Greek, Latin and French,
regardless how closely related.
They were biggie cultures, so they had widespread
influence. There are also mutant terms from Iran
and even India mixed-in early on. It's why they
call the whole mess the "Indo-European" language
family.
Formerly known as the "Aryan Mother Tongue".
On 15/10/2026 17:24, Max Demian wrote:
On 15/10/2026 04:14, c186282 wrote:That's actually a lot more true than most other NaziBollocks™
On 10/14/26 05:57, wolfgang s wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
wrote in news:11alc8j$iamu$9@dont-email.me:
German for "centre" is "Zentrum" though. It was borrowed directly >>>>>> fromI would hope not. I am surprised it was from Latin though, as Germanic >>>>> languages are a branch of their won separate from Romance ones.
Latin, not through French.
All European languages borrowed heavily from Greek, Latin and French,
regardless how closely related.
They were biggie cultures, so they had widespread
influence. There are also mutant terms from Iran
and even India mixed-in early on. It's why they
call the whole mess the "Indo-European" language
family.
Formerly known as the "Aryan Mother Tongue".
They were biggie cultures, so they had widespread
influence. There are also mutant terms from Iran
and even India mixed-in early on. It's why they
call the whole mess the "Indo-European" language
family.
Formerly known as the "Aryan Mother Tongue".
In article <11aqunk$2ibri$1@dont-email.me>,
Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:
They were biggie cultures, so they had widespread
influence. There are also mutant terms from Iran
and even India mixed-in early on. It's why they
call the whole mess the "Indo-European" language
family.
Formerly known as the "Aryan Mother Tongue".
The words "Iran" and "Aryan" have the same origin.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Iran#Etymology_of_Iran
-- Richard--
Nothing Nazi. I read the expression in a dictionary by someone called
Wilde, collected by my parents in fortnightly instalments in the 1930s. Common at the time: you returned them to the publisher who bound them
and sent them back to you: they just looked like a regular bound book.
On 12/10/2026 19:45, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
Yes,Well they do genarally have gearboxes and transmissions, even if the
pure electrics are in effect automatics (at least they have no
gearbox/"transmission"); I'm not sure about hybrids.
ratio is fixed...
the motor in each wheel is fairly rare
On 12/10/2026 19:40, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
the default is manual except for luxury vehicles.
That is not what I found when I changed my car earlier this year.
JMB99 wrote:
On 12/10/2026 19:40, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
the default is manual except for luxury vehicles.
That is not what I found when I changed my car earlier this year.
Because it's no longer true.
On 2026/10/16 14:4:47, Max Demian wrote:
[]
Nothing Nazi. I read the expression in a dictionary by someone called
Wilde, collected by my parents in fortnightly instalments in the 1930s.
Common at the time: you returned them to the publisher who bound them
and sent them back to you: they just looked like a regular bound book.
You mean they posted the parts to you fortnightly, you then posted them
back, and they then posted them back to you agaun?
On 2026/10/16 14:4:47, Max Demian wrote:
[]
Nothing Nazi. I read the expression in a dictionary by someone called
Wilde, collected by my parents in fortnightly instalments in the 1930s.
Common at the time: you returned them to the publisher who bound them
and sent them back to you: they just looked like a regular bound book.
You mean they posted the parts to you fortnightly, you then posted them
back, and they then posted them back to you agaun?
The Natural Philosopher wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_xCssR8qQI
On 12/10/2026 19:45, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
Yes,Well they do genarally have gearboxes and transmissions, even if the
pure electrics are in effect automatics (at least they have no
gearbox/"transmission"); I'm not sure about hybrids.
ratio is fixed...
No. Check into Toyota's system.
On 10/14/26 05:57, wolfgang s wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
wrote in news:11alc8j$iamu$9@dont-email.me:
German for "centre" is "Zentrum" though. It was borrowed directly from >>>> Latin, not through French.I would hope not. I am surprised it was from Latin though, as Germanic
languages are a branch of their won separate from Romance ones.
All European languages borrowed heavily from Greek, Latin and French,
regardless how closely related.
They were biggie cultures, so they had widespread
influence. There are also mutant terms from Iran
and even India mixed-in early on. It's why they
call the whole mess the "Indo-European" language
family.
Heard once, but not SURE, that the Basque language--
seems unique, independent.
On 15/10/2026 2:14 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 10/14/26 05:57, wolfgang s wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
wrote in news:11alc8j$iamu$9@dont-email.me:
German for "centre" is "Zentrum" though. It was borrowed directly from >>>>> Latin, not through French.I would hope not. I am surprised it was from Latin though, as Germanic >>>> languages are a branch of their won separate from Romance ones.
All European languages borrowed heavily from Greek, Latin and French,
regardless how closely related.
They were biggie cultures, so they had widespread
influence. There are also mutant terms from Iran
and even India mixed-in early on. It's why they
call the whole mess the "Indo-European" language
family.
When people spoke of "Indo-European", I thought the 'Indo' was from a
little further east than India, .... like "Indonesia".
Transgender people, like Tinkerbelle, exist because people *believe in them*.
On 6/10/2026 6:02 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
<Snip>
Transgender people, like Tinkerbelle, exist because people *believe
in them*.
WHAT?? Tinkerbelle is/was Transgender!! Really??
The kids story doesn't mention THAT!!
On 6/10/2026 6:02 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
<Snip>
Transgender people, like Tinkerbelle, exist because people *believe in
them*.
WHAT?? Tinkerbelle is/was Transgender!! Really??
The kids story doesn't mention THAT!!
On 18/10/2026 12:00, Daniel70 wrote:
On 6/10/2026 6:02 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
<Snip>
Transgender people, like Tinkerbelle, exist because people *believe
in them*.
WHAT?? Tinkerbelle is/was Transgender!! Really??
The kids story doesn't mention THAT!!
I didn't actually say that. but I am sure that the left will make a case
for it.
The fey were traditionally asexual, bisexual or of either sex depending
on who was writing the stories
On 18/10/2026 11:24 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/10/2026 12:00, Daniel70 wrote:
On 6/10/2026 6:02 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
<Snip>
Transgender people, like Tinkerbelle, exist because people *believe >>>> in them*.
WHAT?? Tinkerbelle is/was Transgender!! Really??
The kids story doesn't mention THAT!!
I didn't actually say that. but I am sure that the left will make a
case for it.
Sorry, four words .... "Transgender people, like Tinkerbelle"?? What
other interpretation are people supposed to make??
The fey were traditionally asexual, bisexual or of either sexhttps://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fey
depending on who was writing the stories
1 a chiefly Scotland : fated to die : doomed
b : marked by a foreboding of death or calamity
(2)
: effeminate … a fey young lad … with his nose buried in fashion magazines, putting on fashion shows in the attic with his sister, garbed
in their mum's clothes.
Daniel70 wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Transgender people, like Tinkerbelle, exist because people *believe in
them*.
WHAT?? Tinkerbelle is/was Transgender!! Really??
The kids story doesn't mention THAT!!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ >Peter_Pan_(1954_musical)#Television_productions
Was Peter Pan transgender? The TV show was my exposure to the story.
On 19/10/2026 10:00, Daniel70 wrote:
On 18/10/2026 11:24 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/10/2026 12:00, Daniel70 wrote:
On 6/10/2026 6:02 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
<Snip>
Transgender people, like Tinkerbelle, exist because people *believe >>>>> in them*.
WHAT?? Tinkerbelle is/was Transgender!! Really??
The kids story doesn't mention THAT!!
I didn't actually say that. but I am sure that the left will make a
case for it.
Sorry, four words .... "Transgender people, like Tinkerbelle"?? What
other interpretation are people supposed to make??
Are you really so illiterate?
There is a difference between
Dead men, like Trump, always begin to smell
and
Dead men like Trump, always begin to smell
I suggest you buy the book 'eats shoots and leaves' and learn about punctuation
The fey were traditionally asexual, bisexual or of either sex
depending on who was writing the stories
My mother used to say someone was "a bit fey" if she thought he was -
gay, I suppose, or at least behaving in an unconventional manner.
On 2026/10/19 12:35:43, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I suggest you buy the book 'eats shoots and leaves' and learn about
punctuation
I'd second that - it's a fun book, too, not _just_ about punctuation and
the like.
A more fun example: "Have you finished eating, Grandma?" gains a
completely different meaning if you leave out the comma!
On 2026-10-19, J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
On 2026/10/19 12:35:43, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I suggest you buy the book 'eats shoots and leaves' and learn about
punctuation
I'd second that - it's a fun book, too, not _just_ about punctuation and
the like.
A more fun example: "Have you finished eating, Grandma?" gains a
completely different meaning if you leave out the comma!
"Avoid commas, that are not necessary."
-- William Safire
On 19/10/2026 10:00, Daniel70 wrote:
On 18/10/2026 11:24 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Are you really so illiterate?
On 18/10/2026 12:00, Daniel70 wrote:
On 6/10/2026 6:02 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
<Snip>
Transgender people, like Tinkerbelle, exist because people
*believe in them*.
WHAT?? Tinkerbelle is/was Transgender!! Really??
The kids story doesn't mention THAT!!
I didn't actually say that. but I am sure that the left will make a
case for it.
Sorry, four words .... "Transgender people, like Tinkerbelle"?? What
other interpretation are people supposed to make??
There is a difference between
Dead men, like Trump, always begin to smell
and
Dead men like Trump, always begin to smell
I suggest you buy the book 'eats shoots and leaves' and learn about punctuation
Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>wrote:
"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>wrote:
In the early sixties of last century I got hold of an old round CRT with 70 degrees deflection tube.
I think round ones survived longer in USA; I've certainly seen (pictures >>> of) colour (or rather color!) ones that were. Not sure why. Even pre-war >>> ones (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lhfs7FjKspw for Gerry
demonstrating one) here weren't round, though some of them had very
rounded corners!
Nice video, yes, the round one ! in a rectangular housing!
One thing I want to mention about those very old CRT TVs:
The extra thick glass screen in front was not so much against radiation,
but to protect people from 'imploding' CRTs
You could else accidently hit the front, and the CRT would implode,
then spit out pieces of glass all over the place.
The Natural Philosopher wrote:That must be a special Aussie edition?
I suggest you buy the book 'eats shoots and leaves' and learn about
punctuation
Is this a different book compared to the one I came across yonks
ago .... "Eats, ROOTS, Shoots and Leaves"??
On 2026-10-06 09:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/10/2026 23:44, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
The Dutch used them for pumping, and the English for milling, for
centuries. (As did other nations, but those are the stereotypes.)
And both abandoned them the moment steam engines came along, and the
same with wind powered ships.
But wind powered ships were not abandoned.
On 6/10/2026 9:09 pm, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-10-06 09:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/10/2026 23:44, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
<Snip>
The Dutch used them for pumping, and the English for milling, for
centuries. (As did other nations, but those are the stereotypes.)
And both abandoned them the moment steam engines came along, and the
same with wind powered ships.
But wind powered ships were not abandoned.
Yeah .... I thought they were called Yachts.
On 19/10/2026 10:35 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:[]
On 19/10/2026 10:00, Daniel70 wrote:
On 18/10/2026 11:24 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Are you really so illiterate?
On 18/10/2026 12:00, Daniel70 wrote:
On 6/10/2026 6:02 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
<Snip>
Transgender people, like Tinkerbelle, exist because people
*believe in them*.
WHAT?? Tinkerbelle is/was Transgender!! Really??
The kids story doesn't mention THAT!!
I didn't actually say that. but I am sure that the left will make a
case for it.
Sorry, four words .... "Transgender people, like Tinkerbelle"?? What
other interpretation are people supposed to make??
No, I don't think I am illiterate .... just reading the words YOU typed
and trying to make sense of them and this is the first time I've read
the suggestion that Tinkerball might have been transgender.
On 6/10/2026 9:09 pm, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-10-06 09:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/10/2026 23:44, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
<Snip>
The Dutch used them for pumping, and the English for milling, for
centuries. (As did other nations, but those are the stereotypes.)
And both abandoned them the moment steam engines came along, and the
same with wind powered ships.
But wind powered ships were not abandoned.
Yeah .... I thought they were called Yachts.
On 2026/10/20 12:40:8, Daniel70 wrote:
On 6/10/2026 9:09 pm, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-10-06 09:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/10/2026 23:44, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
<Snip>
The Dutch used them for pumping, and the English for milling, for
centuries. (As did other nations, but those are the stereotypes.)
And both abandoned them the moment steam engines came along, and the
same with wind powered ships.
But wind powered ships were not abandoned.
Yeah .... I thought they were called Yachts.
For pleasure, yes. I think Carlos meant goods ships. Which, indeed, did suffer a _decline_ when steamships more or less replaced them - but have recently started a resurgence, not as sole source of power (which would
be daft as it's not always there), but auxiliary. Even by Maersk, one of
the more hard-headed freight companies.
On 20/10/2026 19:12, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2026/10/20 12:40:8, Daniel70 wrote:
On 6/10/2026 9:09 pm, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-10-06 09:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/10/2026 23:44, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
<Snip>
The Dutch used them for pumping, and the English for milling, for
centuries. (As did other nations, but those are the stereotypes.)
And both abandoned them the moment steam engines came along, and the >>>>> same with wind powered ships.
But wind powered ships were not abandoned.
Yeah .... I thought they were called Yachts.
For pleasure, yes. I think Carlos meant goods ships. Which, indeed, did
suffer a _decline_ when steamships more or less replaced them - but have
recently started a resurgence, not as sole source of power (which would
be daft as it's not always there), but auxiliary. Even by Maersk, one of
the more hard-headed freight companies.
They are merely testing them out. They have also concluded that, other things being equal, nuclear ships would be better than either.
The great advantage to nuclear is that there is very little advantage to going slower
You can trade slightly greater maintenance costs for many more tonne
miles per interest repayment
Fuel costs are practically nil
They are merely testing them out. They have also concluded that, other
things being equal, nuclear ships would be better than either.
Insurance, port permissions... plus finding trained personnel.
On 20/10/2026 12:40, Daniel70 wrote:
On 6/10/2026 9:09 pm, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2026-10-06 09:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/10/2026 23:44, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
<Snip>
The Dutch used them for pumping, and the English for milling, for
centuries. (As did other nations, but those are the stereotypes.)
And both abandoned them the moment steam engines came along, and the
same with wind powered ships.
But wind powered ships were not abandoned.
Yeah .... I thought they were called Yachts.
I assumed you would understand (a great leap of faith admittedly) that
the context was *commercial* shipping
People still drive a horse and cart. And shoot arrows with bows. Too.--
On 21/10/2026 10:24, Carlos E.R. wrote:
They are merely testing them out. They have also concluded that,
other things being equal, nuclear ships would be better than either.
Insurance, port permissions... plus finding trained personnel.
"Other things being equal"
No need for 'trained personnel' to operate them beyond a simple set of rules. My god if such were the way of the world there would be no one driving on America's roads at all
More than likely they would have 'user serviceable parts' inside either. Sealed for life non refuellable small reactors that you simply crane out
if they go wrong or run low on fuel and return to manufacturers fore an exchange unit
Carlos E. R. wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
If communism is such a terrible thing, how come they don't
crash?
They did, several years ago, but, being communist, they didn't
tell anyone about it...
Usually communist countries fail when they are massively attacked
by the USA, not on their own.
There is no option to attack China.
We won't even be able to stop them from taking Taiwan.
Even if we could physically stop them, we won't because we are too--
dependant upon what they provide for us. Then they'll have the
advanced chip production in their control as well. Even more power
over everyone.
Good luck keeping up them in technolgy, or anything else, then!
On 10/10/2026 8:23 am, chrisv wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
If communism is such a terrible thing, how come they don't
crash?
They did, several years ago, but, being communist, they didn't
tell anyone about it...
Usually communist countries fail when they are massively attacked
by the USA, not on their own.
There is no option to attack China.
We won't even be able to stop them from taking Taiwan.
I thought Taiwan was supposed to be handed back to China at some time in
the future ... maybe 2050'ish after a Century of Independence.
Can't find any mention of it on ....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan
On 2026-10-21 13:28, Daniel70 wrote:
On 10/10/2026 8:23 am, chrisv wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
If communism is such a terrible thing, how come they don't
crash?
They did, several years ago, but, being communist, they didn't
tell anyone about it...
Usually communist countries fail when they are massively attacked
by the USA, not on their own.
There is no option to attack China.
We won't even be able to stop them from taking Taiwan.
I thought Taiwan was supposed to be handed back to China at some time in
the future ... maybe 2050'ish after a Century of Independence.
Can't find any mention of it on ....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan
No, that was Hongkong.
rbowman <bowman@montana.com>wrote:
On Tue, 06 Oct 2026 18:17:59 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:
More and more houses also have solar panels.
That works? Amsterdam is 5 degrees north of where I am and daylight
here is shrinking fast.
Seems so, I have a 80 W panel in a window upstairs, could keep my
laptop battery full if needed.
In the street: left neighbor has big solar panels installed across
the road several houses have those. They feed back into the
power-net, There is some political turmoil now as normally people
with panels would get money back from their electricity bills for the
amount they were feeding back, but that feedback money is ever
decreasing:
https://nltimes.nl/2026/06/30/dutch-solar-owners-told-rethink-energy-use-net-metering-end-nears
That is the reason I do not have those on the roof. I do have some
flexible solar panels I can lay out in the garden and my own 230V
pure sinewavve converter and batteries, so once the (overloaded here)
mains goes down, or because of war, I can at least keep the fridge
and radio and TV working. Tested that last year.
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>wrote:
There is also a lot of scare mongering going around Fear sells
(all sort of stuff).
There certainly is no other reason for windmills
Do not 'simplify' the issue
In my opinion / experience we need REDUNDANCY
Example, when all cars go electric and the power fails,
it is good to have petrol or diesel fueled emergency vehicles.
Electricity sources like windmills, solar panels, water, nuclear,--
oil, coal, gas, etc etc, that 'diversity' makes us less vulnerable,
Here in the Netherlands the electric grid is now so 'full' that
there are cases where new connections to the grid are not possible: https://nltimes.nl/2026/09/20/overloaded-dutch-power-grid-delays-new-homes-raising-costs-wait-times
Taking out the electric grid either by solar storms, AI or humans
hacking it, or in war with bombs also needs backups, local ones at
that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrington_Event
I have sixteen panels (4kW)($4,500) up on my roof (for about five years)
and a 5kW Battery ($4,500 again) as well (for a couple of years).
Still, once my battery is full, the electricity gets feed into the
System and I get $0.01 (yes, one cent) for ever kWh I feed into the
System .... for which my next door neighbour, maybe, might have to pay
$0.40 per kWh.
https://nltimes.nl/2026/06/30/dutch-solar-owners-told-rethink-energy-use-net-metering-end-nearsAt this stage, as soon as I loose Mains, I'm without power .... even if
That is the reason I do not have those on the roof. I do have some
flexible solar panels I can lay out in the garden and my own 230V
pure sinewavve converter and batteries, so once the (overloaded here)
mains goes down, or because of war, I can at least keep the fridge
and radio and TV working. Tested that last year.
the Battery is full! ;-(
On 2026-10-05, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
I've swallowed medical radioactivity, had more x rays and CT scans than
I can remember
viz:
"Radioactive tracers: Doctors attach a radioactive isotope to a chemical
compound to form a radiopharmaceutical, which patients swallow or
receive via injection.
PET and SPECT scans: Scanners detect the gamma rays or radiation emitted
by the tracer inside the body to create 3D images of internal organs.
Identifying hot and cold spots: Diseased or cancerous tissues absorb
tracers differently than healthy tissue, revealing tumors or poor blood
flow.
Common isotopes: Technetium-99m is widely used for heart, bone, and
brain scans, while Iodine isotopes assess thyroid health"
After I had my bone scan they gave me a card that I could show
customs agents or others with scanners to show that their detectors
were going off due to the Technetium-99 they had shot into me.
When my PSA levels started climbing again seven years after my
prostatectomy, I spent 33 sessions in a linear accelerator that
pumped about a sievert into me (which didn't hurt the cancer cells
as much as we had hoped, alas). For a PSMA PET scan I got shot
full of a radioisotope (I forget which one but it had a half-life
short enough that the cyclotron that made it was next door) before
I went through a scanner donut about three times as thick as your
typical scanner. (Fortunately I don't get claustrophobia - I think
I fell asleep inside the machine.) There was at least one other
instance where I got my heart cranked right up on a treadmill while
getting shot up with a radioisotope to check my heart function.
Throw in various other things like dental X-rays, etc.
So I don't worry too much about radiation; I'm doing pretty
well - aside from my prostate cancer cells, and they can
go to hell for all I care.
On 21/10/2026 9:01 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/10/2026 10:24, Carlos E.R. wrote:Yes, the Australian Government are in the process of purchasing these
They are merely testing them out. They have also concluded that,
other things being equal, nuclear ships would be better than either.
Insurance, port permissions... plus finding trained personnel.
"Other things being equal"
No need for 'trained personnel' to operate them beyond a simple set of
rules. My god if such were the way of the world there would be no one
driving on America's roads at all
More than likely they would have 'user serviceable parts' inside
either. Sealed for life non refuellable small reactors that you simply
crane out if they go wrong or run low on fuel and return to
manufacturers fore an exchange unit
types of Submarines from U.S. of A. and Britain over the next thirty
years or so.
Pull into Port, extract the reactor unit and stick a new reactor unit
in. Good to Go.
I don't know what 'they' will do with the used reactor Units. Dump/Recycle/Something.
We have something similar in UK; the reason I've heard given is thatThere is a more compelling reason, and that is that an inverter designed
they don't want any possibility that power company workers, working on a section of the supply they thought was off, getting a shock from a
user's system. Surely a proper changeover/isolation switch ought to
handle this, but I suppose better safe than sorry - for now; hopefully
it will be fixed in time. (The rules/legislation I mean.)
On 2026-10-21 13:28, Daniel70 wrote:
On 10/10/2026 8:23 am, chrisv wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
If communism is such a terrible thing, how come they don't
crash?
They did, several years ago, but, being communist, they didn't
tell anyone about it...
Usually communist countries fail when they are massively attacked
by the USA, not on their own.
There is no option to attack China.
We won't even be able to stop them from taking Taiwan.
I thought Taiwan was supposed to be handed back to China at some time in
the future ... maybe 2050'ish after a Century of Independence.
Can't find any mention of it on ....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan
No, that was Hongkong.
On 6/10/2026 2:52 pm, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
So I don't worry too much about radiation; I'm doing prettyDo you glow in the dark, yet?? ;-P
well - aside from my prostate cancer cells, and they can
go to hell for all I care.
On 21/10/2026 13:41, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
We have something similar in UK; the reason I've heard given is thatThere is a more compelling reason, and that is that an inverter designed
they don't want any possibility that power company workers, working on a
section of the supply they thought was off, getting a shock from a
user's system. Surely a proper changeover/isolation switch ought to
handle this, but I suppose better safe than sorry - for now; hopefully
it will be fixed in time. (The rules/legislation I mean.)
to follow and synchronise to an existing mains frequency is a different animal to one that can self generate it.
So a unit that can do both is (even) more expensive
Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org>wrote:
On 7/10/2026 5:55 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com>wrote:
On Tue, 06 Oct 2026 18:17:59 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:
More and more houses also have solar panels.
That works? Amsterdam is 5 degrees north of where I am and daylight
here is shrinking fast.
Seems so, I have a 80 W panel in a window upstairs, could keep my
laptop battery full if needed.
In the street: left neighbor has big solar panels installed across
the road several houses have those. They feed back into the
power-net, There is some political turmoil now as normally people
with panels would get money back from their electricity bills for the
amount they were feeding back, but that feedback money is ever
decreasing:
I have sixteen panels (4kW)($4,500) up on my roof (for about five years)
and a 5kW Battery ($4,500 again) as well (for a couple of years).
Still, once my battery is full, the electricity gets feed into the
System and I get $0.01 (yes, one cent) for ever kWh I feed into the
System .... for which my next door neighbour, maybe, might have to pay
$0.40 per kWh.
https://nltimes.nl/2026/06/30/dutch-solar-owners-told-rethink-energy-use-net-metering-end-nearsAt this stage, as soon as I loose Mains, I'm without power .... even if
That is the reason I do not have those on the roof. I do have some
flexible solar panels I can lay out in the garden and my own 230V
pure sinewavve converter and batteries, so once the (overloaded here)
mains goes down, or because of war, I can at least keep the fridge
and radio and TV working. Tested that last year.
the Battery is full! ;-(
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>wrote:
On 21/10/2026 13:41, Daniel70 wrote:
On 6/10/2026 2:52 pm, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
So I don't worry too much about radiation; I'm doing prettyDo you glow in the dark, yet?? ;-P
well - aside from my prostate cancer cells, and they can
go to hell for all I care.
Course not. Only radium does that, apart from Cherenkov radiation
IIRC medical radiation is about as much as we receive from 'natural' >sources.
On 6/10/2026 5:57 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>wrote:
<Snip>
There is also a lot of scare mongering going around Fear sells (all sort of stuff).
There certainly is no other reason for windmills
Do not 'simplify' the issue
In my opinion / experience we need REDUNDANCY
Example, when all cars go electric and the power fails,
I don't know if it's usual but, here in Australia, if you have an
Electric Car, and the Mains power to your house fails, you can run your House, for some time, off your Car Battery.
I'm guessing only for a couple of hours, maybe!!
it is good to have petrol or diesel fueled emergency vehicles.
Yeap, gives certainty!!
On 2026/10/21 13:25:18, Daniel70 wrote:
[]
I have sixteen panels (4kW)($4,500) up on my roof (for about five years)
and a 5kW Battery ($4,500 again) as well (for a couple of years).
Still, once my battery is full, the electricity gets feed into the
System and I get $0.01 (yes, one cent) for ever kWh I feed into the
System .... for which my next door neighbour, maybe, might have to pay
$0.40 per kWh.
Nice for the power company!
We have something similar in UK; the reason I've heard given is that
https://nltimes.nl/2026/06/30/dutch-solar-owners-told-rethink-energy-use-net-metering-end-nearsAt this stage, as soon as I loose Mains, I'm without power .... even if
That is the reason I do not have those on the roof. I do have some
flexible solar panels I can lay out in the garden and my own 230V
pure sinewavve converter and batteries, so once the (overloaded here)
mains goes down, or because of war, I can at least keep the fridge
and radio and TV working. Tested that last year.
the Battery is full! ;-(
they don't want any possibility that power company workers, working on a section of the supply they thought was off, getting a shock from a
user's system. Surely a proper changeover/isolation switch ought to
handle this, but I suppose better safe than sorry - for now; hopefully
it will be fixed in time. (The rules/legislation I mean.)
On 21/10/2026 10:35 pm, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-10-21 13:28, Daniel70 wrote:
On 10/10/2026 8:23 am, chrisv wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
If communism is such a terrible thing, how come they don't
crash?
They did, several years ago, but, being communist, they didn't
tell anyone about it...
Usually communist countries fail when they are massively attacked
by the USA, not on their own.
There is no option to attack China.
We won't even be able to stop them from taking Taiwan.
I thought Taiwan was supposed to be handed back to China at some time in >>> the future ... maybe 2050'ish after a Century of Independence.
Can't find any mention of it on ....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan
No, that was Hongkong.
Yeap, but I thought there was a similar deal with Taiwan. ;-(
On 21/10/2026 13:41, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
We have something similar in UK; the reason I've heard given is thatThere is a more compelling reason, and that is that an inverter designed
they don't want any possibility that power company workers, working on a
section of the supply they thought was off, getting a shock from a
user's system. Surely a proper changeover/isolation switch ought to
handle this, but I suppose better safe than sorry - for now; hopefully
it will be fixed in time. (The rules/legislation I mean.)
to follow and synchronise to an existing mains frequency is a different animal to one that can self generate it.
So a unit that can do both is (even) more expensive
On 6/10/2026 5:57 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>wrote:
<Snip>
There is also a lot of scare mongering going around Fear sells (all
sort of stuff).
There certainly is no other reason for windmills
Do not 'simplify' the issue
In my opinion / experience we need REDUNDANCY
Example, when all cars go electric and the power fails,
I don't know if it's usual but, here in Australia, if you have an
Electric Car, and the Mains power to your house fails, you can run your House, for some time, off your Car Battery.
I'm guessing only for a couple of hours, maybe!!
I thought Taiwan was supposed to be handed back to China at some time in >>> the future ... maybe 2050'ish after a Century of Independence.
Can't find any mention of it on ....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan
No, that was Hongkong.
Yeap, but I thought there was a similar deal with Taiwan. ;-(
No, Taiwan is not a colony, so no one to negotiate such a deal. It was
some war between factions. The imperials lost and fled to that island.
The communists won and took all China, except that island. Some
countries insisted, for a limited time, that the real China was Taiwan
(fuck the communists) and fed them millions of weapons, till they had to swap around and accept that the real China are the communists.
The communists are very patient about it.
On 2026-10-21 14:41, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2026/10/21 13:25:18, Daniel70 wrote:
[]
I have sixteen panels (4kW)($4,500) up on my roof (for about five years) >>> and a 5kW Battery ($4,500 again) as well (for a couple of years).
Still, once my battery is full, the electricity gets feed into the
System and I get $0.01 (yes, one cent) for ever kWh I feed into the
System .... for which my next door neighbour, maybe, might have to pay
$0.40 per kWh.
Nice for the power company!
We have something similar in UK; the reason I've heard given is that
https://nltimes.nl/2026/06/30/dutch-solar-owners-told-rethink-At this stage, as soon as I loose Mains, I'm without power .... even if
energy-use-net-metering-end-nears
That is the reason I do not have those on the roof. I do have some
flexible solar panels I can lay out in the garden and my own 230V
pure sinewavve converter and batteries, so once the (overloaded here)
mains goes down, or because of war, I can at least keep the fridge
and radio and TV working. Tested that last year.
the Battery is full! ;-(
they don't want any possibility that power company workers, working on a
section of the supply they thought was off, getting a shock from a
user's system. Surely a proper changeover/isolation switch ought to
handle this, but I suppose better safe than sorry - for now; hopefully
it will be fixed in time. (The rules/legislation I mean.)
You can install such a switch (automatic), and then the battery backed system will work during blackouts. The switch has to be certified, of course.
Think that not only you would give the workers a shock, but your system would try to feed electricity to all your neighbours.
On 2026-10-21 14:37, Daniel70 wrote:
On 6/10/2026 5:57 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>wrote:
<Snip>
There is also a lot of scare mongering going around Fear sells (all >>>>> sort of stuff).
There certainly is no other reason for windmills
Do not 'simplify' the issue
In my opinion / experience we need REDUNDANCY
Example, when all cars go electric and the power fails,
I don't know if it's usual but, here in Australia, if you have an
Electric Car, and the Mains power to your house fails, you can run your
House, for some time, off your Car Battery.
I'm guessing only for a couple of hours, maybe!!
Days!
The battery of an electric car has 40 KW·h or more of charge.
On 21/10/2026 18:40, Carlos E.R. wrote:
No, Taiwan is not a colony, so no one to negotiate such a deal. It was
some war between factions. The imperials lost and fled to that island.
The communists won and took all China, except that island. Some
countries insisted, for a limited time, that the real China was Taiwan
(fuck the communists) and fed them millions of weapons, till they had
to swap around and accept that the real China are the communists.
The communists are very patient about it.
They didn't have the weapons
On 22/10/2026 4:50 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-10-21 14:37, Daniel70 wrote:
On 6/10/2026 5:57 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>wrote:
<Snip>
There is also a lot of scare mongering going around Fear sells
(all sort of stuff).
There certainly is no other reason for windmills
Do not 'simplify' the issue
In my opinion / experience we need REDUNDANCY
Example, when all cars go electric and the power fails,
I don't know if it's usual but, here in Australia, if you have an
Electric Car, and the Mains power to your house fails, you can run your
House, for some time, off your Car Battery.
I'm guessing only for a couple of hours, maybe!!
Days!
The battery of an electric car has 40 KW·h or more of charge.
Oh! O.K., never having had one, I had no idea.
On 2026-10-22 09:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/10/2026 18:40, Carlos E.R. wrote:
No, Taiwan is not a colony, so no one to negotiate such a deal. It
was some war between factions. The imperials lost and fled to that
island. The communists won and took all China, except that island.
Some countries insisted, for a limited time, that the real China was
Taiwan (fuck the communists) and fed them millions of weapons, till
they had to swap around and accept that the real China are the
communists.
The communists are very patient about it.
They didn't have the weapons
Initially. They are patiently getting them. They will be there, eventually.
We can give up Taiwan gracefully, or not. Our loss.
On 22/10/2026 4:50 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:[]
The battery of an electric car has 40 KW·h or more of charge.
Oh! O.K., never having had one, I had no idea.
On 2026/10/22 10:7:59, Daniel70 wrote:
On 22/10/2026 4:50 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:[]
The battery of an electric car has 40 KW·h or more of charge.
Oh! O.K., never having had one, I had no idea.
For a pure electric, or a _sensible_ hybrid (such as a plug-in), yes.
Some hybrids only have a piddling little battery - just enough to take
the energy from a regenerative-braking slowdown, or a few such. Rather
like that used in Formula 1, I believe.
"J. P. Gilliver" wrote:
On 2026/10/22 10:7:59, Daniel70 wrote:
On 22/10/2026 4:50 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:[]
The battery of an electric car has 40 KW·h or more of charge.
Oh! O.K., never having had one, I had no idea.
For a pure electric, or a _sensible_ hybrid (such as a plug-in), yes.
Some hybrids only have a piddling little battery - just enough to take
the energy from a regenerative-braking slowdown, or a few such. Rather
like that used in Formula 1, I believe.
plug-in hybrids tend to have tens of miles on battery, e.g. mine
generally gets about 44 miles from the 13.6 kWh battery
The non-plugin version, as you say, might only have a few hundred metres
of hybrid range, from its 1.3 kWh battery, all it's doing is smoothing
out energy between one braking cycle and the next acceleration cycle.
On 2026-10-22 09:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 21/10/2026 18:40, Carlos E.R. wrote:
No, Taiwan is not a colony, so no one to negotiate such a deal. It
was some war between factions. The imperials lost and fled to that
island. The communists won and took all China, except that island.
Some countries insisted, for a limited time, that the real China was
Taiwan (fuck the communists) and fed them millions of weapons, till
they had to swap around and accept that the real China are the
communists.
The communists are very patient about it.
They didn't have the weapons
Initially. They are patiently getting them. They will be there, eventually.
We can give up Taiwan gracefully, or not. Our loss.
Some electric cars have motors about ten times the power of a gasoline
car, I don't understand why. [...] After a chat with ChatGPT, I
understood. Huge powers are easier with electric motors than with
gasoline motor, so there is a market for them. High acceleration better
than a sport car with a family vehicle appearance, but possibly for
short times (battery and inverter heat constrains, mainly; at the end, weight).
I don't think a non-plugin should have_any_ of the tax
advantages, since it's basically a fuel vehicle: the only way to put
energy into it is at the pump. (I don't know if the tax regime_has_
changed, but I was initially highly unimpressed that such vehicles were treated beneficially in any way - tax or ULEZ.)
They_are_ a good idea for buses, and arguably delivery vans or anything
else used entirely around town. (A bus my company was involved with did indeed have a battery that gave it, I think, about 100 yards - but did
make a considerable difference; on some London route, it got 8 miles per gallon. which sounds poor, until you hear that the Diesel-only on that
route got 4.7.)
Andy Burns wrote:It's a PHEV not an EV, it's got over 400 miles worth of petrol sloshing
mine generally gets about 44 miles from the 13.6 kWh battery
Ah, I wasn't aware that even some plug-in ones had only limited range.
I don't think a non-plugin should haveany of the tax
advantages, since it's basically a fuel vehicle: the only way to put
energy into it is at the pump.
On 2026/10/22 14:29:51, Andy Burns wrote:
"J. P. Gilliver" wrote:
On 2026/10/22 10:7:59, Daniel70 wrote:
On 22/10/2026 4:50 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:[]
The battery of an electric car has 40 KW·h or more of charge.
Oh! O.K., never having had one, I had no idea.
For a pure electric, or a _sensible_ hybrid (such as a plug-in), yes.
Some hybrids only have a piddling little battery - just enough to take
the energy from a regenerative-braking slowdown, or a few such. Rather
like that used in Formula 1, I believe.
plug-in hybrids tend to have tens of miles on battery, e.g. mine
generally gets about 44 miles from the 13.6 kWh battery
Ah, I wasn't aware that even some plug-in ones had only limited range.
--Indeed. I don't think a non-plugin should have _any_ of the tax
The non-plugin version, as you say, might only have a few hundred metres
of hybrid range, from its 1.3 kWh battery, all it's doing is smoothing
out energy between one braking cycle and the next acceleration cycle.
advantages, since it's basically a fuel vehicle: the only way to put
energy into it is at the pump. (I don't know if the tax regime _has_
changed, but I was initially highly unimpressed that such vehicles were treated beneficially in any way - tax or ULEZ.)
They _are_ a good idea for buses, and arguably delivery vans or anything
else used entirely around town. (A bus my company was involved with did indeed have a battery that gave it, I think, about 100 yards - but did
make a considerable difference; on some London route, it got 8 miles per gallon. which sounds poor, until you hear that the Diesel-only on that
route got 4.7.)
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