On Wed, 10/7/2026 12:27 AM, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/6/2026 8:30 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
I think that part of why you don't see why Macs are better is because you >>>>> haven't been separated from a PC for long enough. When I had a MacBook AirEven a few years down the line, I doubt that she'll be complaining about
that Neo.
I told her that Apple laptops have a unique value attached. In the PC >>>>>> world, a simple mini PC with a valid Windows license is the path. I have >>>>>> learned to not make predictions on laptop hardware I would or wouldn't >>>>>> touch. Apple's timing for the Neo was smart. But they need a wider >>>>>> diversification of their hardware to do what I think they're capable of. >>>>>
M1, I also had my Zephyrus G14 2021. Because the latter played games, I >>>>> tended to prefer using it. Selling the M1 made sense even though it did a >>>>> great job at work simply because I'm usually a one- machine guy and I >>>>> figured I'd hold onto the one which does more. This is a time before I >>>>> discovered that the stuttering I was facing was irreparable, and during a >>>>> time when I was very much used to fans running all the time.
I got this M4 as a sweet deal and I mentioned it before. However, it still
seemed like it wouldn't become my main machine compared to the same gaming
machine from 2021. After all, this unit only has 256GB of storage whereas >>>>> the laptop was upgraded to 2TB and 32GB of RAM. How could it possibly >>>>> become my principal unit? Then, I killed the laptop doing something that >>>>> should be routine. Suddenly, I only had the MacBook Air. At first, there >>>>> was a period of anger at what happened. Then, a period of adjustment. The >>>>> increased time with the machine made me learn more about it and appreciate
what I was suddenly getting: a machine I don't have to plug, a machine I >>>>> can't hear, a machine that _effortlessly_ performs every task, a machine >>>>> where the speed is consistent, a machine that doesn't stutter, a machine >>>>> which always recognizes my fingerprint, a machine that is infinitely >>>>> portable and which connects to all my devices without effort. Heck, it >>>>> even plays my games damned well
considering its graphics are integrated. Add Crossover, and the backlog of
games I have on GOG is suddenly available to me and runs damn well too >>>>> through Metal. Even though I've since bought a used gaming laptop to make >>>>> my entire collection available without question, I'm actually reluctant to
use it most of the time. That's the Apple effect.
Either way, my wife is getting me a new unit in February. I left it up to >>>>> her to decide what machine I will receive. Nevertheless, she's noticed how
much joy I get from using the Mac. I'm not fighting it anymore; I'm using >>>>> it.
The fact you are using a laptop makes me understand your choice. Windows >>>> and Linux are even available for the ARM hardware Apple is using.
Putting Linux on Apple's silicon would be like shooting your own knees out. >>> Even an outdated version of MacOS is a better fit. Meanwhile, a PC with ARM >>> is terrible whether you use Windows or Linux, but you're still better off >>> with the latter because there is at least a chance that it might improve >>> with time.
Linux on Apple Intel could better than ARM, as would be Windows in some ways,
I really like how this concept of the MacBook Pro or something assuming its >> versatility perhaps with Microsoft Windows or Linux, has claimed the highest >> category essentially, the carefree individual node.
Not hard to approximate the space of that with desktop hardware on the cheap.
Where Apple is showing signs of winning is the ability to produce devices in
a way MS and other Unix systems aren't genuinely doing, although it's worth >> noting that Apple's system gets a lot from compatibility with Unix and from >> MS Office.
Having the Neo might be promoting real trade, though, being small out of the >> box. The larger question is whether someone has something bigger than Apple. >> Historically having native gaming made Microsoft cool but having their OS as
a standard in ARM devices isn't bad as emulation schemes go.
I'd want a device that has room for SODIMM or DIMM expansion.
Machines with soldered down RAM, that's not my style.
I want to be able to upgrade the RAM, when the price is right.
https://www.ifixit.com/News/116152/macbook-neo-is-the-most-repairable-macbook-in-14-years
"That tradeoff is not new, and we have criticized it as recently as earlier this week.
The Neo just brings the same compromise to a cheap MacBook. Whatever storage and memory
you buy on day one is what you live with for the life of the machine."
And the picture compares an iPhone (top of picture) to the Neo (bottom of picture).
https://valkyrie.cdn.ifixit.com/media/2026/03/12215046/MacBook_Neo_75.jpg
The A18 is the center chip, and the RAM is inside it. It's likely another stacked-die thing.
https://www.techpowerup.com/347063/apple-macbook-neo-capped-at-8-gb-ram-by-a18-pro-info-pop-packaging?cp=2
"This memory is attached directly above the A18 Pro SoC
using Integrated Fan-Out Package on Package (InFO-PoP),
creating a 3D wafer-level fan-out package."
So you are really buying a smartphone. In a tarted-up package.
On Oct 7, 2026 at 2:10:57 AM EDT, "Paul" <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 10/7/2026 12:27 AM, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/6/2026 8:30 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
Even a few years down the line, I doubt that she'll be complaining about
that Neo.
I told her that Apple laptops have a unique value attached. In the PC >>>>>>> world, a simple mini PC with a valid Windows license is the path. I have
learned to not make predictions on laptop hardware I would or wouldn't >>>>>>> touch. Apple's timing for the Neo was smart. But they need a wider >>>>>>> diversification of their hardware to do what I think they're capable of.
I think that part of why you don't see why Macs are better is because you
haven't been separated from a PC for long enough. When I had a MacBook Air
M1, I also had my Zephyrus G14 2021. Because the latter played games, I >>>>>> tended to prefer using it. Selling the M1 made sense even though it did a
great job at work simply because I'm usually a one- machine guy and I >>>>>> figured I'd hold onto the one which does more. This is a time before I >>>>>> discovered that the stuttering I was facing was irreparable, and during a
time when I was very much used to fans running all the time.
I got this M4 as a sweet deal and I mentioned it before. However, it still
seemed like it wouldn't become my main machine compared to the same gaming
machine from 2021. After all, this unit only has 256GB of storage whereas
the laptop was upgraded to 2TB and 32GB of RAM. How could it possibly >>>>>> become my principal unit? Then, I killed the laptop doing something that >>>>>> should be routine. Suddenly, I only had the MacBook Air. At first, there >>>>>> was a period of anger at what happened. Then, a period of adjustment. The
increased time with the machine made me learn more about it and appreciate
what I was suddenly getting: a machine I don't have to plug, a machine I >>>>>> can't hear, a machine that _effortlessly_ performs every task, a machine >>>>>> where the speed is consistent, a machine that doesn't stutter, a machine >>>>>> which always recognizes my fingerprint, a machine that is infinitely >>>>>> portable and which connects to all my devices without effort. Heck, it >>>>>> even plays my games damned well
considering its graphics are integrated. Add Crossover, and the backlog of
games I have on GOG is suddenly available to me and runs damn well too >>>>>> through Metal. Even though I've since bought a used gaming laptop to make
my entire collection available without question, I'm actually reluctant to
use it most of the time. That's the Apple effect.
Either way, my wife is getting me a new unit in February. I left it up to
her to decide what machine I will receive. Nevertheless, she's noticed how
much joy I get from using the Mac. I'm not fighting it anymore; I'm using
it.
The fact you are using a laptop makes me understand your choice. Windows >>>>> and Linux are even available for the ARM hardware Apple is using.
Putting Linux on Apple's silicon would be like shooting your own knees out.
Even an outdated version of MacOS is a better fit. Meanwhile, a PC with ARM
is terrible whether you use Windows or Linux, but you're still better off >>>> with the latter because there is at least a chance that it might improve >>>> with time.
Linux on Apple Intel could better than ARM, as would be Windows in some ways,
I really like how this concept of the MacBook Pro or something assuming its >>> versatility perhaps with Microsoft Windows or Linux, has claimed the highest
category essentially, the carefree individual node.
Not hard to approximate the space of that with desktop hardware on the cheap.
Where Apple is showing signs of winning is the ability to produce devices in
a way MS and other Unix systems aren't genuinely doing, although it's worth >>> noting that Apple's system gets a lot from compatibility with Unix and from >>> MS Office.
Having the Neo might be promoting real trade, though, being small out of the
box. The larger question is whether someone has something bigger than Apple.
Historically having native gaming made Microsoft cool but having their OS as
a standard in ARM devices isn't bad as emulation schemes go.
I'd want a device that has room for SODIMM or DIMM expansion.
Machines with soldered down RAM, that's not my style.
I want to be able to upgrade the RAM, when the price is right.
https://www.ifixit.com/News/116152/macbook-neo-is-the-most-repairable-macbook-in-14-years
"That tradeoff is not new, and we have criticized it as recently as earlier
this week.
The Neo just brings the same compromise to a cheap MacBook. Whatever
storage and memory
you buy on day one is what you live with for the life of the machine." >>
And the picture compares an iPhone (top of picture) to the Neo (bottom of
picture).
https://valkyrie.cdn.ifixit.com/media/2026/03/12215046/MacBook_Neo_75.jpg >>
The A18 is the center chip, and the RAM is inside it. It's likely another
stacked-die thing.
https://www.techpowerup.com/347063/apple-macbook-neo-capped-at-8-gb-ram-by-a18-pro-info-pop-packaging?cp=2
"This memory is attached directly above the A18 Pro SoC
using Integrated Fan-Out Package on Package (InFO-PoP),
creating a 3D wafer-level fan-out package."
So you are really buying a smartphone. In a tarted-up package.
Actually, you are really buying a Mac. Condensed down into a phone package.
Same hardware. Same Unix OS, with different UIs to fit the screen size.
Same apps: Safari, Notes, Photos, Weather, Mail, Music, etc. In fact, on the first iPhone the OS was just called OS X. The name iOS came later,
Turns out it is very nice and extremely practical to have such flexible hardware and software.
On 10/7/2026 4:41 PM, Nick Charles wrote:
On Oct 7, 2026 at 2:10:57 AM EDT, "Paul" <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote: >>> On Wed, 10/7/2026 12:27 AM, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/6/2026 8:30 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
Even a few years down the line, I doubt that she'll be
complaining about
that Neo.
I told her that Apple laptops have a unique value attached. In >>>>>>>> the PC
world, a simple mini PC with a valid Windows license is the
path. I have
learned to not make predictions on laptop hardware I would or >>>>>>>> wouldn't
touch. Apple's timing for the Neo was smart. But they need a wider >>>>>>>> diversification of their hardware to do what I think they're
capable of.
I think that part of why you don't see why Macs are better is
because you
haven't been separated from a PC for long enough. When I had a
MacBook Air
M1, I also had my Zephyrus G14 2021. Because the latter played
games, I
tended to prefer using it. Selling the M1 made sense even though >>>>>>> it did a
great job at work simply because I'm usually a one- machine guy >>>>>>> and I
figured I'd hold onto the one which does more. This is a time
before I
discovered that the stuttering I was facing was irreparable, and >>>>>>> during a
time when I was very much used to fans running all the time.
I got this M4 as a sweet deal and I mentioned it before. However, >>>>>>> it still
seemed like it wouldn't become my main machine compared to the
same gaming
machine from 2021. After all, this unit only has 256GB of storage >>>>>>> whereas
the laptop was upgraded to 2TB and 32GB of RAM. How could it
possibly
become my principal unit? Then, I killed the laptop doing
something that
should be routine. Suddenly, I only had the MacBook Air. At
first, there
was a period of anger at what happened. Then, a period of
adjustment. The
increased time with the machine made me learn more about it and >>>>>>> appreciate
what I was suddenly getting: a machine I don't have to plug, a
machine I
can't hear, a machine that _effortlessly_ performs every task, a >>>>>>> machine
where the speed is consistent, a machine that doesn't stutter, a >>>>>>> machine
which always recognizes my fingerprint, a machine that is infinitely >>>>>>> portable and which connects to all my devices without effort.
Heck, it
even plays my games damned well
considering its graphics are integrated. Add Crossover, and the >>>>>>> backlog of
games I have on GOG is suddenly available to me and runs damn
well too
through Metal. Even though I've since bought a used gaming laptop >>>>>>> to make
my entire collection available without question, I'm actually
reluctant to
use it most of the time. That's the Apple effect.
Either way, my wife is getting me a new unit in February. I left >>>>>>> it up to
her to decide what machine I will receive. Nevertheless, she's
noticed how
much joy I get from using the Mac. I'm not fighting it anymore; >>>>>>> I'm using
it.
The fact you are using a laptop makes me understand your choice.
Windows
and Linux are even available for the ARM hardware Apple is using.
Putting Linux on Apple's silicon would be like shooting your own
knees out.
Even an outdated version of MacOS is a better fit. Meanwhile, a PC
with ARM
is terrible whether you use Windows or Linux, but you're still
better off
with the latter because there is at least a chance that it might
improve
with time.
Linux on Apple Intel could better than ARM, as would be Windows in
some ways,
I really like how this concept of the MacBook Pro or something
assuming its
versatility perhaps with Microsoft Windows or Linux, has claimed the
highest
category essentially, the carefree individual node.
Not hard to approximate the space of that with desktop hardware on
the cheap.
Where Apple is showing signs of winning is the ability to produce
devices in
a way MS and other Unix systems aren't genuinely doing, although
it's worth
noting that Apple's system gets a lot from compatibility with Unix
and from
MS Office.
Having the Neo might be promoting real trade, though, being small
out of the
box. The larger question is whether someone has something bigger
than Apple.
Historically having native gaming made Microsoft cool but having
their OS as
a standard in ARM devices isn't bad as emulation schemes go.
I'd want a device that has room for SODIMM or DIMM expansion.
Machines with soldered down RAM, that's not my style.
I want to be able to upgrade the RAM, when the price is right.
https://www.ifixit.com/News/116152/macbook-neo-is-the-most-repairable-macbook-in-14-years
"That tradeoff is not new, and we have criticized it as recently
as earlier
this week.
The Neo just brings the same compromise to a cheap MacBook. Whatever >>> storage and memory
you buy on day one is what you live with for the life of the
machine."
And the picture compares an iPhone (top of picture) to the Neo
(bottom of
picture).
https://valkyrie.cdn.ifixit.com/media/2026/03/12215046/MacBook_Neo_75.jpg >>>
The A18 is the center chip, and the RAM is inside it. It's likely
another
stacked-die thing.
https://www.techpowerup.com/347063/apple-macbook-neo-capped-at-8-gb-ram-by-a18-pro-info-pop-packaging?cp=2
"This memory is attached directly above the A18 Pro SoC
using Integrated Fan-Out Package on Package (InFO-PoP),
creating a 3D wafer-level fan-out package."
So you are really buying a smartphone. In a tarted-up package.
Actually, you are really buying a Mac. Condensed down into a phone
package.
Same hardware. Same Unix OS, with different UIs to fit the screen size.
Same apps: Safari, Notes, Photos, Weather, Mail, Music, etc. In fact,
on the
first iPhone the OS was just called OS X. The name iOS came later,
Turns out it is very nice and extremely practical to have such flexible
hardware and software.
So Apple is letting phones lead the direction of development when they actually have a possible way to make serious gains on Windows.
On 10/6/2026 8:30 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
Even a few years down the line, I doubt that she'll be complaining >>>>>> about that Neo.
I told her that Apple laptops have a unique value attached. In the >>>>> PC world, a simple mini PC with a valid Windows license is the
path. I have learned to not make predictions on laptop hardware I
would or wouldn't touch. Apple's timing for the Neo was smart.
But they need a wider diversification of their hardware to do what
I think they're capable of.
I think that part of why you don't see why Macs are better is
because you haven't been separated from a PC for long enough. When I
had a MacBook Air M1, I also had my Zephyrus G14 2021. Because the
latter played games, I tended to prefer using it. Selling the M1
made sense even though it did a great job at work simply because I'm
usually a one- machine guy and I figured I'd hold onto the one which
does more. This is a time before I discovered that the stuttering I
was facing was irreparable, and during a time when I was very much
used to fans running all the time.
I got this M4 as a sweet deal and I mentioned it before. However, it
still seemed like it wouldn't become my main machine compared to the
same gaming machine from 2021. After all, this unit only has 256GB
of storage whereas the laptop was upgraded to 2TB and 32GB of RAM.
How could it possibly become my principal unit? Then, I killed the
laptop doing something that should be routine. Suddenly, I only had
the MacBook Air. At first, there was a period of anger at what
happened. Then, a period of adjustment. The increased time with the
machine made me learn more about it and appreciate what I was
suddenly getting: a machine I don't have to plug, a machine I can't
hear, a machine that _effortlessly_ performs every task, a machine
where the speed is consistent, a machine that doesn't stutter, a
machine which always recognizes my fingerprint, a machine that is
infinitely portable and which connects to all my devices without
effort. Heck, it even plays my games damned well considering its
graphics are integrated. Add Crossover, and the backlog of games I
have on GOG is suddenly available to me and runs damn well too
through Metal. Even though I've since bought a used gaming laptop to
make my entire collection available without question, I'm actually
reluctant to use it most of the time. That's the Apple effect.
Either way, my wife is getting me a new unit in February. I left it
up to her to decide what machine I will receive. Nevertheless, she's
noticed how much joy I get from using the Mac. I'm not fighting it
anymore; I'm using it.
The fact you are using a laptop makes me understand your choice.
Windows and Linux are even available for the ARM hardware Apple is
using.
Putting Linux on Apple's silicon would be like shooting your own knees
out. Even an outdated version of MacOS is a better fit. Meanwhile, a
PC with ARM is terrible whether you use Windows or Linux, but you're
still better off with the latter because there is at least a chance
that it might improve with time.
Linux on Apple Intel could better than ARM,
as would be Windows in some
ways, I really like how this concept of the MacBook Pro or something assuming its versatility perhaps with Microsoft Windows or Linux, has claimed the highest category essentially, the carefree individual node.
Not hard to approximate the space of that with desktop hardware on the cheap. Where Apple is showing signs of winning is the ability to
produce devices in a way MS and other Unix systems aren't genuinely
doing, although it's worth noting that Apple's system gets a lot from compatibility with Unix and from MS Office.
Having the Neo might be promoting real trade, though, being small out of
the box. The larger question is whether someone has something bigger
than Apple. Historically having native gaming made Microsoft cool but having their OS as a standard in ARM devices isn't bad as emulation
schemes go.
On Oct 3, 2026, CrudeSausage wrote
(in article<6ac0ee93$0$25$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>):
On 2026-10-02 8:23 p.m., Paul wrote:the office is moving to Ubuntu and Mac. All non-legacy Windows systems will be outtahere by January. ‘Legacy’ would be old XP and 7 systems still running because they’re attached to hardware which doesn’t have drivers for later versions of Windows or non-Windows OSes.
On Fri, 10/2/2026 1:17 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-02 1:03 p.m., CrudeSausage wrote:
It's almost as if the number was never accurate at all! The reality is >>>>> that no matter how bad Windows is, most of the world is able to stomach >>>>> it. Those who can't will move to Mac, not Linux.
<https://lunduke.substack.com/p/linux-market-share-plummets-from>
I meant to crosspost this to the Linux and Windows newsgroups. My
apologies.
Whether the number is 3% or the number is 15%, the measurement technique >>> is broken six ways from Sunday.
Anyone who "concludes" something based on StatsCounter, is delusional.
The measurement method is just too sloppy.
For the things that the Distrowatch popularity counter measures, attempts >>> have been made to game the numbers (use bots to look for a certain distro >>> on the site). But if you use T test, remove the outliers, and measure
longer term averages, you can get a better idea of the "true" level of
interest. I can well believe that Ubuntu has been in 8th place now,
for a couple of years (as they don't really care what place they're in now).
And they shouldn't. For me, Ubuntu is one of the most polished
experiences, regardless of how controversial some of the positions might
be to users of open-source. If Ubuntu were the default Linux
distribution and people didn't jump from one to the other looking for
perfection, more people might be using Linux right now.
Having the Neo might be promoting real trade, though, being small out
of the box. The larger question is whether someone has something
bigger than Apple. Historically having native gaming made Microsoft
cool but having their OS as a standard in ARM devices isn't bad as
emulation schemes go.
I am currently testing which games from my GOG library run fine through Crossover on a MacBook Air M4. So far, I'm quite surprised that the only games that didn't run right are the original version of Oblivion
(probably because of its age) and the Contra collection of games. More complex games, nevertheless, run wonderfully. Knowing that you can get
games running in Linux and MacOS is going to kill that market for
Microsoft eventually. However, Apple should still try to attract
developers into producing native versions of their titles for the
hardware since it has shown that it is quite capable, even in the base models.
On 10/7/2026 8:53 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
Having the Neo might be promoting real trade, though, being small out
of the box. The larger question is whether someone has something
bigger than Apple. Historically having native gaming made Microsoft
cool but having their OS as a standard in ARM devices isn't bad as
emulation schemes go.
I am currently testing which games from my GOG library run fine
through Crossover on a MacBook Air M4. So far, I'm quite surprised
that the only games that didn't run right are the original version of
Oblivion (probably because of its age) and the Contra collection of
games. More complex games, nevertheless, run wonderfully. Knowing that
you can get games running in Linux and MacOS is going to kill that
market for Microsoft eventually. However, Apple should still try to
attract developers into producing native versions of their titles for
the hardware since it has shown that it is quite capable, even in the
base models.
I am not convinced Microsoft has an unbreakable hold on the gaming
platform, but Apple should open its eyes and fast to what its footprint
in laptops could be.
Having the Neo might be promoting real trade, though, being small
out of the box. The larger question is whether someone has
something bigger than Apple. Historically having native gaming made >>>> Microsoft cool but having their OS as a standard in ARM devices
isn't bad as emulation schemes go.
I am currently testing which games from my GOG library run fine
through Crossover on a MacBook Air M4. So far, I'm quite surprised
that the only games that didn't run right are the original version of
Oblivion (probably because of its age) and the Contra collection of
games. More complex games, nevertheless, run wonderfully. Knowing
that you can get games running in Linux and MacOS is going to kill
that market for Microsoft eventually. However, Apple should still try
to attract developers into producing native versions of their titles
for the hardware since it has shown that it is quite capable, even in
the base models.
I am not convinced Microsoft has an unbreakable hold on the gaming
platform, but Apple should open its eyes and fast to what its
footprint in laptops could be.
I think one way Apple could easily become a go-to platform for gaming
would be to purchase either Nintendo or Sony. Nintendo seems like the
more obvious choice because the hardware they sell is primarily
portable, and they tend not to push the envelope when it comes to the specifications of their hardware. They don't believe that fun games
require the most powerful computer on the market to run, and that would
be ideal for a company that wants the gaming experience to be just as
good on a base-level computer as on a powerhouse. Sony has also
irritated people with their decision to no longer sell physical media, something that is compatible with a company that gave up on physical
media a long time ago.
On 10/8/2026 11:15 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
Having the Neo might be promoting real trade, though, being small
out of the box. The larger question is whether someone has
something bigger than Apple. Historically having native gaming
made Microsoft cool but having their OS as a standard in ARM
devices isn't bad as emulation schemes go.
I am currently testing which games from my GOG library run fine
through Crossover on a MacBook Air M4. So far, I'm quite surprised
that the only games that didn't run right are the original version
of Oblivion (probably because of its age) and the Contra collection
of games. More complex games, nevertheless, run wonderfully. Knowing
that you can get games running in Linux and MacOS is going to kill
that market for Microsoft eventually. However, Apple should still
try to attract developers into producing native versions of their
titles for the hardware since it has shown that it is quite capable,
even in the base models.
I am not convinced Microsoft has an unbreakable hold on the gaming
platform, but Apple should open its eyes and fast to what its
footprint in laptops could be.
I think one way Apple could easily become a go-to platform for gaming
would be to purchase either Nintendo or Sony. Nintendo seems like the
more obvious choice because the hardware they sell is primarily
portable, and they tend not to push the envelope when it comes to the
specifications of their hardware. They don't believe that fun games
require the most powerful computer on the market to run, and that
would be ideal for a company that wants the gaming experience to be
just as good on a base-level computer as on a powerhouse. Sony has
also irritated people with their decision to no longer sell physical
media, something that is compatible with a company that gave up on
physical media a long time ago.
If Apple can capitalize on already dominating high-end laptops and
having a leg up on ARM, they could finally compete with Windows in a way that would test their viability on a greater scale. I'm happy with what
I have. But I'm interested in what could happen in future sales.
If Apple can capitalize on already dominating high-end laptops and
having a leg up on ARM, they could finally compete with Windows in a
way that would test their viability on a greater scale. I'm happy
with what I have. But I'm interested in what could happen in future
sales.
I thought I was happy with what I had too, until it died and I was able
to fully embrace something better.
On 10/8/2026 9:32 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
If Apple can capitalize on already dominating high-end laptops and
having a leg up on ARM, they could finally compete with Windows in a
way that would test their viability on a greater scale. I'm happy
with what I have. But I'm interested in what could happen in future
sales.
I thought I was happy with what I had too, until it died and I was
able to fully embrace something better.
I was missing that Apple is dramatically more competitive with potential
for more than I realized. Then again, it's so trivial to have what I have. Where the sales go is something we'll find out.
On 2026-10-08 9:56 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/8/2026 9:32 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
If Apple can capitalize on already dominating high-end laptops and having a leg up on ARM, they could finally compete with Windows in a way that would test their viability on a greater scale. I'm happy with what I have. But I'm interested in what could happen in future sales.
I thought I was happy with what I had too, until it died and I was able to fully embrace something better.
I was missing that Apple is dramatically more competitive with potential for more than I realized. Then again, it's so trivial to have what I have. Where the sales go is something we'll find out.
The sales won't go up so long as one side is able to produce shoddy hardware at a much lower price. While the Neo is a great computer at a reasonable cost, PC manufacturers are able to undercut that by packing slow processors and low-quality chips into a hard plastic shell. Unsurprisingly, lots of low-IQ people exist to buy such garbage and then complain about "Windows" not working right. If it weren't possible to undercut one side and people had to opt for the better of two devices costing the same, _no one_ would be choosing Windows or Linux.
On Fri, 10/9/2026 8:21 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-08 9:56 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/8/2026 9:32 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
If Apple can capitalize on already dominating high-end laptops and having a leg up on ARM, they could finally compete with Windows in a way that would test their viability on a greater scale. I'm happy with what I have. But I'm interested in what could happen in future sales.
I thought I was happy with what I had too, until it died and I was able to fully embrace something better.
I was missing that Apple is dramatically more competitive with potential for more than I realized. Then again, it's so trivial to have what I have. Where the sales go is something we'll find out.
The sales won't go up so long as one side is able to produce shoddy hardware at a much lower price. While the Neo is a great computer at a reasonable cost, PC manufacturers are able to undercut that by packing slow processors and low-quality chips into a hard plastic shell. Unsurprisingly, lots of low-IQ people exist to buy such garbage and then complain about "Windows" not working right. If it weren't possible to undercut one side and people had to opt for the better of two devices costing the same, _no one_ would be choosing Windows or Linux.
Why not review the market, and see what they (PC manufacturers) have delivered ?
There are products coming out, targeted specifically at the NEO,
not just generic slop to fill a tick box in the usual marketing mix.
It's bar bet time for those manufacturers, which means they *won't*
be using N150 for this. And Intel will be backing them up, with
deals needed to get there. One product I could find, the processor
launched at $550 for it, and obviously Intel sold that at a *much*
lower price, to make a competing PC product possible. This is a
*team* effort, the gauntlet has been dropped.
On 2026-10-09 4:07 p.m., Paul wrote:
On Fri, 10/9/2026 8:21 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-08 9:56 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/8/2026 9:32 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
If Apple can capitalize on already dominating high-end laptops and having a leg up on ARM, they could finally compete with Windows in a way that would test their viability on a greater scale. I'm happy with what I have. But I'm interested in what could happen in future sales.
I thought I was happy with what I had too, until it died and I was able to fully embrace something better.
I was missing that Apple is dramatically more competitive with potential for more than I realized. Then again, it's so trivial to have what I have. Where the sales go is something we'll find out.
The sales won't go up so long as one side is able to produce shoddy hardware at a much lower price. While the Neo is a great computer at a reasonable cost, PC manufacturers are able to undercut that by packing slow processors and low-quality chips into a hard plastic shell. Unsurprisingly, lots of low-IQ people exist to buy such garbage and then complain about "Windows" not working right. If it weren't possible to undercut one side and people had to opt for the better of two devices costing the same, _no one_ would be choosing Windows or Linux.
Why not review the market, and see what they (PC manufacturers) have delivered ?
There are products coming out, targeted specifically at the NEO,
not just generic slop to fill a tick box in the usual marketing mix.
It's bar bet time for those manufacturers, which means they *won't*
be using N150 for this. And Intel will be backing them up, with
deals needed to get there. One product I could find, the processor
launched at $550 for it, and obviously Intel sold that at a *much*
lower price, to make a competing PC product possible. This is a
*team* effort, the gauntlet has been dropped.
I am willing to wager that even after Intel puts all of its resources and energy into countering the Neo, it will _still_ produce a worse result. Just for the heck of it, I asked AI to tell me which processors perform as well as the M4 in my MacBook Air. The result:
"The Apple M4 is most closely equivalent to Intel Core i9-14900K and AMD Ryzen 7 9700X in terms of overall high-end consumer performance, though its strengths vary by workload.
Single-Core Performance
The M4 leads its competitors in single-core tasks, outperforming the Intel Core i9-14900K by approximately 15–16% and beating the Intel Core Ultra 7 258V by over 43%. It competes directly with the AMD Ryzen 7 9700X for the highest-scoring consumer SoC in benchmarks like Geekbench and Cinebench.
Multi-Core Performance
In multi-threaded workloads, the M4 is significantly outperformed by high-core-count desktop chips. The Intel Core i9-14900K is roughly 127% faster in multi-core benchmarks, while the Intel Core i9-12900H and Intel Core i7-14700 offer higher core/thread counts (24/32 and 20/28 respectively) that dominate in rendering and compilation. The M4’s multi-core performance is more comparable to the Intel Core Ultra series and AMD Ryzen series mobile processors. "
It should be noted that M4 computers cost a lot less than computers with those processors nowadays. They also produce that performance all the while providing excellent battery life and silent operation in a laptop and the latter in a desktop. Add fans in the desktop product and Intel/AMD's can only compete by doubling your power bill and warming your entire house with the heat it produces. If you opt for the AMD, you'll also have the added benefit of constant stuttering from their garbage implementation of TPM. It's just a joke at this point. You'd have to be a clown to continue using a PC.
On Fri, 10/9/2026 5:20 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-09 4:07 p.m., Paul wrote:
On Fri, 10/9/2026 8:21 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-08 9:56 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/8/2026 9:32 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
If Apple can capitalize on already dominating high-end laptops and having a leg up on ARM, they could finally compete with Windows in a way that would test their viability on a greater scale. I'm happy with what I have. But I'm interested in what could happen in future sales.
I thought I was happy with what I had too, until it died and I was able to fully embrace something better.
I was missing that Apple is dramatically more competitive with potential for more than I realized. Then again, it's so trivial to have what I have. Where the sales go is something we'll find out.
The sales won't go up so long as one side is able to produce shoddy hardware at a much lower price. While the Neo is a great computer at a reasonable cost, PC manufacturers are able to undercut that by packing slow processors and low-quality chips into a hard plastic shell. Unsurprisingly, lots of low-IQ people exist to buy such garbage and then complain about "Windows" not working right. If it weren't possible to undercut one side and people had to opt for the better of two devices costing the same, _no one_ would be choosing Windows or Linux.
Why not review the market, and see what they (PC manufacturers) have delivered ?
There are products coming out, targeted specifically at the NEO,
not just generic slop to fill a tick box in the usual marketing mix.
It's bar bet time for those manufacturers, which means they *won't*
be using N150 for this. And Intel will be backing them up, with
deals needed to get there. One product I could find, the processor
launched at $550 for it, and obviously Intel sold that at a *much*
lower price, to make a competing PC product possible. This is a
*team* effort, the gauntlet has been dropped.
I am willing to wager that even after Intel puts all of its resources and energy into countering the Neo, it will _still_ produce a worse result. Just for the heck of it, I asked AI to tell me which processors perform as well as the M4 in my MacBook Air. The result:
"The Apple M4 is most closely equivalent to Intel Core i9-14900K and AMD Ryzen 7 9700X in terms of overall high-end consumer performance, though its strengths vary by workload.
Single-Core Performance
The M4 leads its competitors in single-core tasks, outperforming the Intel Core i9-14900K by approximately 15–16% and beating the Intel Core Ultra 7 258V by over 43%. It competes directly with the AMD Ryzen 7 9700X for the highest-scoring consumer SoC in benchmarks like Geekbench and Cinebench.
Multi-Core Performance
In multi-threaded workloads, the M4 is significantly outperformed by high-core-count desktop chips. The Intel Core i9-14900K is roughly 127% faster in multi-core benchmarks, while the Intel Core i9-12900H and Intel Core i7-14700 offer higher core/thread counts (24/32 and 20/28 respectively) that dominate in rendering and compilation. The M4’s multi-core performance is more comparable to the Intel Core Ultra series and AMD Ryzen series mobile processors. "
It should be noted that M4 computers cost a lot less than computers with those processors nowadays. They also produce that performance all the while providing excellent battery life and silent operation in a laptop and the latter in a desktop. Add fans in the desktop product and Intel/AMD's can only compete by doubling your power bill and warming your entire house with the heat it produces. If you opt for the AMD, you'll also have the added benefit of constant stuttering from their garbage implementation of TPM. It's just a joke at this point. You'd have to be a clown to continue using a PC.
Keep looking. Wildcat lake can be used for low end stuff.
https://www.techpowerup.com/348551/intel-wildcat-lake-outruns-apples-macbook-neo-and-its-successor-in-first-benchmarks
# On Mini-PC, watch out that 304 is not substituted for 305.
# The Techpowerup is using the 320 as an example, but the
# clock rate versus price, isn't worth it at quantity 1.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_processors
On 2026-10-09 6:13 p.m., Paul wrote:
On Fri, 10/9/2026 5:20 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-09 4:07 p.m., Paul wrote:
On Fri, 10/9/2026 8:21 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2026-10-08 9:56 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/8/2026 9:32 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
If Apple can capitalize on already dominating high-end laptops and having a leg up on ARM, they could finally compete with Windows in a way that would test their viability on a greater scale. I'm happy with what I have. But I'm interested in what could happen in future sales.
I thought I was happy with what I had too, until it died and I was able to fully embrace something better.
I was missing that Apple is dramatically more competitive with potential for more than I realized. Then again, it's so trivial to have what I have. Where the sales go is something we'll find out.
The sales won't go up so long as one side is able to produce shoddy hardware at a much lower price. While the Neo is a great computer at a reasonable cost, PC manufacturers are able to undercut that by packing slow processors and low-quality chips into a hard plastic shell. Unsurprisingly, lots of low-IQ people exist to buy such garbage and then complain about "Windows" not working right. If it weren't possible to undercut one side and people had to opt for the better of two devices costing the same, _no one_ would be choosing Windows or Linux.
Why not review the market, and see what they (PC manufacturers) have delivered ?
There are products coming out, targeted specifically at the NEO,
not just generic slop to fill a tick box in the usual marketing mix.
It's bar bet time for those manufacturers, which means they *won't*
be using N150 for this. And Intel will be backing them up, with
deals needed to get there. One product I could find, the processor
launched at $550 for it, and obviously Intel sold that at a *much*
lower price, to make a competing PC product possible. This is a
*team* effort, the gauntlet has been dropped.
I am willing to wager that even after Intel puts all of its resources and energy into countering the Neo, it will _still_ produce a worse result. Just for the heck of it, I asked AI to tell me which processors perform as well as the M4 in my MacBook Air. The result:
"The Apple M4 is most closely equivalent to Intel Core i9-14900K and AMD Ryzen 7 9700X in terms of overall high-end consumer performance, though its strengths vary by workload.
Single-Core Performance
The M4 leads its competitors in single-core tasks, outperforming the Intel Core i9-14900K by approximately 15–16% and beating the Intel Core Ultra 7 258V by over 43%. It competes directly with the AMD Ryzen 7 9700X for the highest-scoring consumer SoC in benchmarks like Geekbench and Cinebench.
Multi-Core Performance
In multi-threaded workloads, the M4 is significantly outperformed by high-core-count desktop chips. The Intel Core i9-14900K is roughly 127% faster in multi-core benchmarks, while the Intel Core i9-12900H and Intel Core i7-14700 offer higher core/thread counts (24/32 and 20/28 respectively) that dominate in rendering and compilation. The M4’s multi-core performance is more comparable to the Intel Core Ultra series and AMD Ryzen series mobile processors. "
It should be noted that M4 computers cost a lot less than computers with those processors nowadays. They also produce that performance all the while providing excellent battery life and silent operation in a laptop and the latter in a desktop. Add fans in the desktop product and Intel/AMD's can only compete by doubling your power bill and warming your entire house with the heat it produces. If you opt for the AMD, you'll also have the added benefit of constant stuttering from their garbage implementation of TPM. It's just a joke at this point. You'd have to be a clown to continue using a PC.
Keep looking. Wildcat lake can be used for low end stuff.
https://www.techpowerup.com/348551/intel-wildcat-lake-outruns-apples-macbook-neo-and-its-successor-in-first-benchmarks
# On Mini-PC, watch out that 304 is not substituted for 305.
# The Techpowerup is using the 320 as an example, but the
# clock rate versus price, isn't worth it at quantity 1.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_processors
What operating system do those processors usually run on? Is it a system people are trying to get away from?
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