From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

Arthur Lipscomb <arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

On 8/27/2026 9:15 AM, The True Melissa wrote:

Arthur Lipscomb wrote in article <116plm7$1jiff$1@dont-email.me>:

The puppet episode of Angel was
terrible.

The puppet episode of Angel was one of the best episodes the show ever
put out.

I'm surprised to hear you or anyone say that. We clearly have
different tastes. What did you like about it?

It was funny! Especially Spike calling Angel a "Wee little puppet man."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpbagkZuJsw

My experience with puppet episodes is that the writers lean on
the gimmick and don't bother doing anything with it.

I guess I don't see it as really being a thing. Of the 10s of thousands
of hours of television I've watched, I can probably count on one hand
the number of puppet episodes I've watched. I've probably seen more timeloop episodes on TV than puppet episodes.

SUPERCAR
FIREBALL XL5
STINGRAY
THUNDERBIRDS
:)

I do get your concern about leaning on a gimmick. But that's true
whether puppets or not. I think it's just bad writing. You can totally
do a bad puppet episode. But the problem isn't the existence of the
puppet, the problem is the writing. I have zero issue with someone
watching the episode and not liking it. I took issue that 100% of the complaints were being launched before the episode aired. No one
complaining about it had actually watched it.

I think what may get glossed over in the complaints about Strange New
Worlds doing a puppet episode, in particular by people who were basing
their complaints on the commercial without actually watching the episode
is Vg jnf nyy n qernz. Hayvxr va Natry, jurer ur ernyyl jnf ghearq vagb
n chccrg, gur punenpgref va Fgenatr Arj Jbeyqf jrer abg npghnyyl ghearq
vagb chccrgf.

It was a for fun episode. Star Trek does for fun episodes all the time since TOS.

Mentally deficient Freddie Fryberger, the man who deliberately destroyed
Star Trek the first time, shot Spock’s Brain as a drama because he said
Star Trek didn’t do comedy. Apparently the three episodes he watched didn’t include anything funny.

How deliciously ironic that the man without a brain gave us the quote
“brain and brain what is brain?“
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

Arthur Lipscomb wrote in article <116s8id$2fiub$1@dont-email.me>:

I think what may get glossed over in the complaints about Strange New
Worlds doing a puppet episode, in particular by people who were basing
their complaints on the commercial without actually watching the episode
is Vg jnf nyy n qernz. Hayvxr va Natry, jurer ur ernyyl jnf ghearq vagb
n chccrg, gur punenpgref va Fgenatr Arj Jbeyqf jrer abg npghnyyl ghearq
vagb chccrgf.

Yes, that definitely changes the picture.

It was a for fun episode. Star Trek does for fun episodes all the time since TOS.

That is true. "The Trouble With Tribbles" springs to mind. I was
told by someone in this group that "Spock's Brain" was intended
as funny but directed incorrectly.
--
The meek shall inherit, we're told,
But I'm not so easily sold.
For supposing they should,
It would do them no good --
They'd lose it at once to the bold.
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

On 8/27/2026 10:28 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:

Arthur Lipscomb <arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

On 8/27/2026 4:00 AM, The True Melissa wrote:

Ubiquitous wrote in article <UBI20260823@dont-email.me>:

I watched:
There?s No Defending Strange New Worlds Anymore
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtWrwqOdGtU

This must be about the puppet episode. Nobody ever talks about
Strange New Worlds in my YouTube, but the terribleness of this
recent episode has broken into my bubble.

I'm am positive that the over whelming majority, if not 100% of the
people saying bad things about this episode either didn't watch it, or
already don't like the show and just looking for things to complain about. >>

Are puppet episodes ever good?

Yes.

The puppet episode of Angel was

terrible.

The puppet episode of Angel was one of the best episodes the show ever
put out.

Yes. On the other hand, the puppet episode of Voyage to the Bottom of the
Sea was terrible despite Vincent Price.

I never really watched that show. I guess mainly because I don't think
it was rerun when I was a kid. Time Tunnel aired occasionally, Land of
the Giants had a few runs, and Lost in Space was always on, but never
Bottom to the the Voyage of the Sea.


On the other hand, the puppet

segment of Stargate SG1 (the “SG“ stands for: PUPPETS!) was brilliant.

Yes it was.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9XrrEaZ7Y4


But totally different kind of puppet. Stargate and the other shows you mentioned used marionettes on strings. Star Trek used Jim Henson
puppets combined with CGI. It looked way, way, way, better! LOL I
don't know if they used CGI on Farscape or not, but the Jim Henson
Creature shop puppets are made to generally look realistic without any
obvious strings. Although the ones on Star rTek were supposed to look
like Jim Henson muppets. That was sort the whole point of the joke.


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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

thetruemelissa@gmail.comNOSPAM wrote:

Ubiquitous wrote in article <116q46k$1p03l$1@dont-email.me>:

thetruemelissa@gmail.comNOSPAM wrote:

Ubiquitous wrote in article <UBI20260823@dont-email.me>:

Strange New Worlds in my YouTube, but the terribleness of this
recent episode has broken into my bubble.

Are puppet episodes ever good? The puppet episode of Angel was
terrible. The puppet episode of Community was terrible.

I don't remember if I saw it, but I heard the puppet ep of Angel
was quite good and cotained some clever meanings.

That's interesting. I never heard anything good about it.

The converse for me.

At the time, I was recapping Angel episodes for a web forum. IIRC
one of my comments for this one was "After last week I thought
they were finally going somewhere, and then they give me this
crap."

Someone else I knew saw that episode and gave up on the show.
She'd tuned back in based on my assessment that the Illyria arc
was improving the show, and the puppet episode made her tune out
again.

I think the reason many dislike these is not that we hate puppets
but that it's difficult to explain how someone turns into a
puppet in a non-stupid manner. I don't remember Angel's gimmick
at this point, but I remember feeling disgusted.

In "Angel", it was a Demonoic spell, which makes sense within the
show's logic. OTOH, it happening because of a transporter accoident
is just stupid.

From what I remember, "Smile Time" was played seriously, not like a
joke, and there were things in the ep which pushed that season's
story arc forward. One thing of interest was that Angel at the time
was figuratively a puppet of his employer, Wolfman Harrt.
--
Democrats and the liberal media hate President Trump more than they
love this country.

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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

arthur@alum.calberkeley.org wrote:

On 8/27/2026 9:15 AM, The True Melissa wrote:

My experience with puppet episodes is that the writers lean on
the gimmick and don't bother doing anything with it.

I guess I don't see it as really being a thing. Of the 10s of thousands
of hours of television I've watched, I can probably count on one hand
the number of puppet episodes I've watched. I've probably seen more >timeloop episodes on TV than puppet episodes.

Unfortunately, they only make about a dozen eps perseason, if that many, so it's a lot more obvious than doing a couple in a traditional two-dozen ep season.

I do get your concern about leaning on a gimmick. But that's true
whether puppets or not. I think it's just bad writing. You can totally
do a bad puppet episode. But the problem isn't the existence of the
puppet, the problem is the writing. I have zero issue with someone
watching the episode and not liking it. I took issue that 100% of the >complaints were being launched before the episode aired. No one
complaining about it had actually watched it.

I think what may get glossed over in the complaints about Strange New
Worlds doing a puppet episode, in particular by people who were basing
their complaints on the commercial without actually watching the episode
is Vg jnf nyy n qernz. Hayvxr va Natry, jurer ur ernyyl jnf ghearq vagb
n chccrg, gur punenpgref va Fgenatr Arj Jbeyqf jrer abg npghnyyl ghearq
vagb chccrgf.

Actually, the people criticing it did watch it, and TBH, the ending made it even WORSE.

It was a for fun episode. Star Trek does for fun episodes all the time >since TOS.

Yes, they've done comedy and gimmick eps, but they weren't a significant propeprtion of the season.
--
Democrats and the liberal media hate President Trump more than they
love this country.

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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

anim8rfsk@cox.net wrote:

Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

On 8/27/2026 4:00 AM, The True Melissa wrote:

Ubiquitous wrote in article <UBI20260823@dont-email.me>:

I watched:
There?s No Defending Strange New Worlds Anymore
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtWrwqOdGtU

This must be about the puppet episode. Nobody ever talks about
Strange New Worlds in my YouTube, but the terribleness of this
recent episode has broken into my bubble.

Are puppet episodes ever good? The puppet episode of Angel was
terrible. The puppet episode of Community was terrible.

It's amazing that three different live-action shows have such a
thing as a puppet episode. Why does this keep happening? You'd
think they'd learn.

The 'Stargate: SG-1' puppet episode wasn't too bad.... :D

Damn, I owe you puppet ice cream

Is it made from real puppets?
--
Democrats and the liberal media hate President Trump more than they
love this country.

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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

Ubiquitous wrote in article <117h634$1hqhi$2@dont-email.me>:

In "Angel", it was a Demonoic spell, which makes sense within the
show's logic.

If you say so. I thought it was an eye-roller. Maybe next they
could all go on a game show because a demon made them.

The show was already pretty weak at that point, though, so I
didn't worry about it. I just categorized it as a dumb late-run
episode.
--
The meek shall inherit, we're told,
But I'm not so easily sold.
For supposing they should,
It would do them no good --
They'd lose it at once to the bold.
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

Ubiquitous wrote in article <117h6eb$1hqhi$3@dont-email.me>:

Actually, I only quote Arthur here.

arthur@alum.calberkeley.org wrote:

I guess I don't see it as really being a thing. Of the 10s of thousands >of hours of television I've watched, I can probably count on one hand
the number of puppet episodes I've watched. I've probably seen more >timeloop episodes on TV than puppet episodes.

I was just thinking about timeloop episodes. As far as I know,
Groundhog Day invented the trope of repeating a day until the
protagonist gets it right. No gods or other controlling forces
are ever seen; it just happens.

There've been a lot of them since. Xena's "Been There; Done
That" was excellent. American Dad's "Yule. Tide. Repeat" is also
good.

At this point, it's been around long enough that we should start
to see variations. The only variant I can think of is from
Fantasy Island (2021), where *two* people both had to get the day
right and their needs seemed to conflict until it was solved.

I haven't yet seen any reversals -- say, someone has to be evil
enough or extract enough revenge to win the day. I also haven't
seen any fakeouts, where some villain went to a lot of trouble to
create the illusion of a repeating day. I might also expect
subversions, where someone thinks he has to get the day right but
it's really all about someone else. Maybe we just need a little
more time.

Has anyone else seen variants? How about other good (or unusually
bad) examples?
--
The meek shall inherit, we're told,
But I'm not so easily sold.
For supposing they should,
It would do them no good --
They'd lose it at once to the bold.
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

On 2026-09-05 15:16:48 +0000, The True Melissa said:

Ubiquitous wrote in article <117h6eb$1hqhi$3@dont-email.me>:

Actually, I only quote Arthur here.

arthur@alum.calberkeley.org wrote:

I guess I don't see it as really being a thing. Of the 10s of thousands >>> of hours of television I've watched, I can probably count on one hand
the number of puppet episodes I've watched. I've probably seen more
timeloop episodes on TV than puppet episodes.

I was just thinking about timeloop episodes. As far as I know,
Groundhog Day invented the trope of repeating a day until the
protagonist gets it right. No gods or other controlling forces are ever seen; it just happens.

Nope.

In terms of movies, the first one to have a 'time loop' was "Turn Back
the Clock" in 1933.
<https://gamerant.com/origins-history-time-loop-film-tv/>

But the idea pre-dates that by at least 11 years with the first 'time
loop' story generally considerd to be the novel "Worm Ouroboros" in
1922. Possibly the Russian novel "Strange Life of Ivan Osokin" from
1915, although he only seems to go through his life twice. <https://literature.stackexchange.com/questions/10988/what-is-the-earliest-work-with-the-time-loop-trope>

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_loop>

There've been a lot of them since. Xena's "Been There; Done That" was excellent. American Dad's "Yule. Tide. Repeat" is also good.

At this point, it's been around long enough that we should start to see variations. The only variant I can think of is from Fantasy Island
(2021), where *two* people both had to get the day right and their
needs seemed to conflict until it was solved.

"Edge of Tomorrow" (2014). The characters played by Tom Cruise and
Emily Blunt have to work together, although, from memory, she doesn't
realise it is a time loop until he tells her each time. It's the 'best'
movie starring Tom Cruise, simply because you get to see the idiot
'actor' die multiple times. :-p <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edge_of_Tomorrow>

I haven't yet seen any reversals -- say, someone has to be evil enough
or extract enough revenge to win the day. I also haven't seen any
fakeouts, where some villain went to a lot of trouble to create the
illusion of a repeating day. I might also expect subversions, where
someone thinks he has to get the day right but it's really all about
someone else. Maybe we just need a little more time.

Has anyone else seen variants? How about other good (or unusually bad) examples?

There are numerous lists on the internet, although I don't think any of
them are actually "complete".

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_films_featuring_time_loops> <https://www.imdb.com/list/ls089989339/> <https://lifehacker.com/17-of-the-best-time-loop-movies-and-tv-shows-that-arent-1848452661>




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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net> wrote:

anim8rfsk@cox.net wrote:

Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

On 8/27/2026 4:00 AM, The True Melissa wrote:

Ubiquitous wrote in article <UBI20260823@dont-email.me>:

I watched:
There?s No Defending Strange New Worlds Anymore
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtWrwqOdGtU

This must be about the puppet episode. Nobody ever talks about
Strange New Worlds in my YouTube, but the terribleness of this
recent episode has broken into my bubble.

Are puppet episodes ever good? The puppet episode of Angel was
terrible. The puppet episode of Community was terrible.

It's amazing that three different live-action shows have such a
thing as a puppet episode. Why does this keep happening? You'd
think they'd learn.

The 'Stargate: SG-1' puppet episode wasn't too bad.... :D

Damn, I owe you puppet ice cream

Is it made from real puppets?

It is sort of stringy.
--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

Your Name wrote in article <117i5pv$1tbp4$1@dont-email.me>:

But the idea pre-dates that by at least 11 years with the first 'time
loop' story generally considerd to be the novel "Worm Ouroboros" in
1922.

Hmm, interesting. I'll have to look for it. It should be out of
copyright, so I'm free to download it if I find it.
--
The meek shall inherit, we're told,
But I'm not so easily sold.
For supposing they should,
It would do them no good --
They'd lose it at once to the bold.
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