From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

I have been on something of a police bodycam binge in recent weeks and
one of the things that has been very noticeable to me is the number of
people who are behaving erratically - and often quite dangerously -
because they're "off their meds". (And one where a guy who was on new
meds acted even crazier that he had when he was off his meds.)

Back in the day, people that couldn't function normally in society would
be institutionalized full time and any meds would be administered under careful supervision so that the staff could be SURE the meds were
actually taken, not just hid in the cheeks and spit out. That also
involved building large and expensive institutions and staffing them and
the "thought leaders" eventually persuaded governments to do away with
these institutions, thus saving a bunch of money. Then people with
mental issues were given prescriptions and then trusted to take their
pills.

The problem of course is that not all of these patients took their pills reliably (or their caregivers failed to ensure they were taken or failed
to notice that they weren't actually being swallowed) and the patients
got more and more erratic.

My (relatively) simple idea is that we set up a new system of medicine administration so that anyone on these psychotropic meds took them in a supervised setting. In other words, the relevant patients turned up at
the local hospital or police station to be given their meds where the attendants there would carefully ensure that the pills were consumed. No
new buildings would have to be built and the people who administered the medication would not need immense medical skill, just the ability to
make sure the pills were being swallowed. There could even be a "pills
on wheels" system where pills were administered by people who came to
the patient's home if they had major mobility issues or lived a long way
from a police station or hospital. Heck, maybe some way could be
developed so that patients could take their pills on Zoom calls and the medical person could verify conclusively that it had actually been
swallowed.

Of course there would have to be some kind of sanction for patients that refused to co-operate, with actual institutionalization being the
sanction of last resort.

Can anyone think of any major objections to this idea? What stumbling
blocks am I failing to consider? I have to believe that it is already
legal to force people to take medicine under limited circumstances since
it seems to have been done for many decades. Surely getting hospitals to administer pills would be trivial. Setting up clinics or doctor's
offices - and police stations - should be pretty easy if that's all they
need to do.

I think this would make the lives of police - and anyone who has to
interact with the mentally unstable - a LOT easier.
--
Rhino

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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

Rhino wrote in article <117jvr3$18lhh$9@dont-email.me>:

My (relatively) simple idea is that we set up a new system of medicine administration so that anyone on these psychotropic meds took them in a supervised setting. In other words, the relevant patients turned up at
the local hospital or police station to be given their meds where the attendants there would carefully ensure that the pills were consumed.

There is not a chance in hell that I'd participate in this. I'd
rather go live in the wilderness, and yes, I mean that literally.
If I were diagnosed as schizophrenic, I doubt that would go away.
It might strengthen. Paranoia and schizophrenia are old friends.

I also wonder how you'd account for jaw disorders. My mouth
literally won't open wide. Would someone stick a camera in there
every day? If I got sentenced to this program, I'd be seriously
investigating emigration to anywhere civilized, with the
wilderness as a backup plan.

Heck, maybe some way could be developed so that patients could
take their pills on Zoom calls and the medical person could
verify conclusively that it had actually been swallowed.

I'm pretty sure there's no way to do an effective body cavity
check over Zoom, and a mouth check is exactly what would be
required. Even then, some have the ability to palm the pills
while seeming to take them... and that ability is going to become
more widespread in this new world.

IMO, the real problem is that the meds suck. Some people seem to
think there's a pill that cures schizophrenia, and people just
won't take them because they're dumb or bad or something. In
fact, these meds work by dulling the patient's response to the
entire world. Dopamine is blocked, and nothing at all feels
rewarding or worthwhile.

Everyone will always want to ditch such a medicine. Until that's
addressed, people will keep refusing the pills.
--
The meek shall inherit, we're told,
But I'm not so easily sold.
For supposing they should,
It would do them no good --
They'd lose it at once to the bold.
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

On 2026-09-06 11:41 a.m., The True Melissa wrote:

Rhino wrote in article <117jvr3$18lhh$9@dont-email.me>:

My (relatively) simple idea is that we set up a new system of medicine
administration so that anyone on these psychotropic meds took them in a
supervised setting. In other words, the relevant patients turned up at
the local hospital or police station to be given their meds where the
attendants there would carefully ensure that the pills were consumed.

There is not a chance in hell that I'd participate in this. I'd
rather go live in the wilderness, and yes, I mean that literally.
If I were diagnosed as schizophrenic, I doubt that would go away.
It might strengthen. Paranoia and schizophrenia are old friends.

Fair enough. I hadn't anticipated such a visceral reaction but I can
certainly see that people might react negatively to being forced to take pills.

I also wonder how you'd account for jaw disorders. My mouth
literally won't open wide. Would someone stick a camera in there
every day? If I got sentenced to this program, I'd be seriously
investigating emigration to anywhere civilized, with the
wilderness as a backup plan.

I hadn't considered that but I know there are such things as fibre optic cameras which plumbers, for instance, run through pipes to look for
blockages. Here's a video that illustrates one such camera and I think
you'll agree that it would fit into a jaw that opened even just a little:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlg6u9oWGCs [1 minute]

Mind you, I'm not sure how hard it would be to steer them to look
everywhere that a pill might be parked. >

Heck, maybe some way could be developed so that patients could
take their pills on Zoom calls and the medical person could
verify conclusively that it had actually been swallowed.

I'm pretty sure there's no way to do an effective body cavity
check over Zoom, and a mouth check is exactly what would be
required. Even then, some have the ability to palm the pills
while seeming to take them... and that ability is going to become
more widespread in this new world.

So maybe Zoom supervision is wishful thinking....

IMO, the real problem is that the meds suck. Some people seem to
think there's a pill that cures schizophrenia, and people just
won't take them because they're dumb or bad or something. In
fact, these meds work by dulling the patient's response to the
entire world. Dopamine is blocked, and nothing at all feels
rewarding or worthwhile.

Everyone will always want to ditch such a medicine. Until that's
addressed, people will keep refusing the pills.

I have absolutely no problem with continuing to research better
medicines! In fact, I would support spending more money to accelerate
the search if promising new research directions can be found. But meds
that treat mental illness seem like something that would be a lengthy
search lasting decades, like the search for a cancer cure has been.
Still, treatment options for many cancers are a lot better than they
once were so we may get the same results with mental health treatments.
Also, you never know when a breakthrough let's science leap ahead
decades at once.

As for people not wanting to take a pill because it dulls them, I can appreciate their reluctance to do so. I can also appreciate that society
as a whole has an interest in the matter. If people choose not to take
those pills for whatever reason, they can NOT use their mental issues as
a get-out-of-jail-free card and MUST live with the consequences.
Sometimes, those consequences are fatal for the mentally-ill person or
the general public, like when some nutter starts shooting or stabbing
others and then ends his own life or gets it ended for him by police.
(The Tumbler Ridge incident from a few months ago being one of many
examples of that.)
--
Rhino
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

On 9/6/2026 12:58 PM, Rhino wrote:

On 2026-09-06 11:41 a.m., The True Melissa wrote:

Rhino wrote in article <117jvr3$18lhh$9@dont-email.me>:

My (relatively) simple idea is that we set up a new system of medicine
administration so that anyone on these psychotropic meds took them in a
supervised setting. In other words, the relevant patients turned up at
the local hospital or police station to be given their meds where the
attendants there would carefully ensure that the pills were consumed.

There is not a chance in hell that I'd participate in this. I'd
rather go live in the wilderness, and yes, I mean that literally.
If I were diagnosed as schizophrenic, I doubt that would go away.
It might strengthen. Paranoia and schizophrenia are old friends.

Fair enough. I hadn't anticipated such a visceral reaction but I can certainly see that people might react negatively to being forced to take pills.

I also wonder how you'd account for jaw disorders. My mouth
literally won't open wide. Would someone stick a camera in there
every day? If I got sentenced to this program, I'd be seriously
investigating emigration to anywhere civilized, with the
wilderness as a backup plan.

I hadn't considered that but I know there are such things as fibre optic cameras which plumbers, for instance, run through pipes to look for blockages. Here's a video that illustrates one such camera and I think you'll agree that it would fit into a jaw that opened even just a little:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlg6u9oWGCs [1 minute]

Mind you, I'm not sure how hard it would be to steer them to look
everywhere that a pill might be parked. >

Heck, maybe some way could be developed so that patients could
take their pills on Zoom calls and the medical person could
verify conclusively that it had actually been swallowed.

I'm pretty sure there's no way to do an effective body cavity
check over Zoom, and a mouth check is exactly what would be
required. Even then, some have the ability to palm the pills
while seeming to take them... and that ability is going to become
more widespread in this new world.

So maybe Zoom supervision is wishful thinking....

IMO, the real problem is that the meds suck. Some people seem to
think there's a pill that cures schizophrenia, and people just
won't take them because they're dumb or bad or something. In
fact, these meds work by dulling the patient's response to the
entire world. Dopamine is blocked, and nothing at all feels
rewarding or worthwhile.

Everyone will always want to ditch such a medicine. Until that's
addressed, people will keep refusing the pills.

I have absolutely no problem with continuing to research better
medicines! In fact, I would support spending more money to accelerate
the search if promising new research directions can be found. But meds
that treat mental illness seem like something that would be a lengthy
search lasting decades, like the search for a cancer cure has been.
Still, treatment options for many cancers are a lot better than they
once were so we may get the same results with mental health treatments. Also, you never know when a breakthrough let's science leap ahead
decades at once.

As for people not wanting to take a pill because it dulls them, I can appreciate their reluctance to do so. I can also appreciate that society
as a whole has an interest in the matter. If people choose not to take
those pills for whatever reason, they can NOT use their mental issues as
a get-out-of-jail-free card and MUST live with the consequences.
Sometimes, those consequences are fatal for the mentally-ill person or
the general public, like when some nutter starts shooting or stabbing
others and then ends his own life or gets it ended for him by police.
(The Tumbler Ridge incident from a few months ago being one of many
examples of that.)

Most any drug can be powder that can be stirred into a glass of water...


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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

On 2026-09-06 17:31:19 +0000, moviePig said:

Most any drug can be powder that can be stirred into a glass of water...

If only that were true, then many people wouldn't have to suffer being punctured by a needle for things like the Covid, flu, shingles, etc.
vaccines. :-(

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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

Rhino wrote in article <117k63k$18lhh$10@dont-email.me>:

I have absolutely no problem with continuing to research better
medicines! In fact, I would support spending more money to accelerate
the search if promising new research directions can be found. But meds
that treat mental illness seem like something that would be a lengthy
search lasting decades, like the search for a cancer cure has
been.

We may never see a single cure for all cancers, but we don't need
one if we can treat them in categories.

Still, treatment options for many cancers are a lot better than they
once were so we may get the same results with mental health treatments. Also, you never know when a breakthrough let's science leap ahead
decades at once.

That's kind of what I meant. I'd really think mental health would
be further along by now.

We seem to spend a lot of time barking up different wrong trees.
There's not a lot of actual progress. I like that we've at least
learned to treat mental patients humanely, though. Things could
be a lot worse, as history shows.

As for people not wanting to take a pill because it dulls them, I can appreciate their reluctance to do so. I can also appreciate that society
as a whole has an interest in the matter. If people choose not to take
those pills for whatever reason, they can NOT use their mental issues as
a get-out-of-jail-free card and MUST live with the consequences.

Okay, that's interesting. I recall expressing some things along
those lines, when I was younger and more libertarian.

Sometimes, those consequences are fatal for the mentally-ill person or
the general public, like when some nutter starts shooting or stabbing
others and then ends his own life or gets it ended for him by police.
(The Tumbler Ridge incident from a few months ago being one of many
examples of that.)

Sometimes mentally ill people are killed in situations they
create. I'd prevent that if I could, but as a cause-and-effect
thing, I get it.
--
The meek shall inherit, we're told,
But I'm not so easily sold.
For supposing they should,
It would do them no good --
They'd lose it at once to the bold.
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

On 2026-09-06 7:46 p.m., The True Melissa wrote:

Rhino wrote in article <117k63k$18lhh$10@dont-email.me>:

I have absolutely no problem with continuing to research better
medicines! In fact, I would support spending more money to accelerate
the search if promising new research directions can be found. But meds
that treat mental illness seem like something that would be a lengthy
search lasting decades, like the search for a cancer cure has
been.

We may never see a single cure for all cancers, but we don't need
one if we can treat them in categories.

Still, treatment options for many cancers are a lot better than they
once were so we may get the same results with mental health treatments.
Also, you never know when a breakthrough let's science leap ahead
decades at once.

That's kind of what I meant. I'd really think mental health would
be further along by now.

We seem to spend a lot of time barking up different wrong trees.
There's not a lot of actual progress. I like that we've at least
learned to treat mental patients humanely, though. Things could
be a lot worse, as history shows.

As for people not wanting to take a pill because it dulls them, I can
appreciate their reluctance to do so. I can also appreciate that society
as a whole has an interest in the matter. If people choose not to take
those pills for whatever reason, they can NOT use their mental issues as
a get-out-of-jail-free card and MUST live with the consequences.

Okay, that's interesting. I recall expressing some things along
those lines, when I was younger and more libertarian.

It would be grossly unfair if people got away from the consequences of
not taking their pills by, in effect, claiming that they were crazy and therefore not responsible for their actions. That would essentially give
them license to stop taking their own meds and then escape the
consequences. But maybe that kind of reasoning doesn't work because it
assumes they WILL understand if someone explains that they MUST take
their meds and maybe crazy people truly DON'T understand that. Maybe
it's impossible to make a crazy person responsible. I truly don't know.>

Sometimes, those consequences are fatal for the mentally-ill person or
the general public, like when some nutter starts shooting or stabbing
others and then ends his own life or gets it ended for him by police.
(The Tumbler Ridge incident from a few months ago being one of many
examples of that.)

Sometimes mentally ill people are killed in situations they
create. I'd prevent that if I could, but as a cause-and-effect
thing, I get it.

--
Rhino
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

On 9/6/2026 7:21 PM, Your Name wrote:

On 2026-09-06 17:31:19 +0000, moviePig said:

Most any drug can be powder that can be stirred into a glass of water...

If only that were true, then many people wouldn't have to suffer being punctured by a needle for things like the Covid, flu, shingles, etc. vaccines.   :-(

You're right. I was thinking of psychoactive stuff.


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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

On 9/6/2026 9:05 PM, Rhino wrote:

On 2026-09-06 7:46 p.m., The True Melissa wrote:

Rhino wrote in article <117k63k$18lhh$10@dont-email.me>:

I have absolutely no problem with continuing to research better
medicines! In fact, I would support spending more money to
accelerate the search if promising new research directions can
be found. But meds that treat mental illness seem like something
that would be a lengthy search lasting decades, like the search
for a cancer cure has been.

We may never see a single cure for all cancers, but we don't need
one if we can treat them in categories.

Still, treatment options for many cancers are a lot better than
they once were so we may get the same results with mental health
treatments. Also, you never know when a breakthrough let's
science leap ahead decades at once.

That's kind of what I meant. I'd really think mental health would
be further along by now.

We seem to spend a lot of time barking up different wrong trees.
There's not a lot of actual progress. I like that we've at least
learned to treat mental patients humanely, though. Things could be
a lot worse, as history shows.

As for people not wanting to take a pill because it dulls them,
I can appreciate their reluctance to do so. I can also
appreciate that society as a whole has an interest in the
matter. If people choose not to take those pills for whatever
reason, they can NOT use their mental issues as a get-out-of-
jail-free card and MUST live with the consequences.

Okay, that's interesting. I recall expressing some things along
those lines, when I was younger and more libertarian.

It would be grossly unfair if people got away from the consequences
of not taking their pills by, in effect, claiming that they were
crazy and therefore not responsible for their actions. That would essentially give them license to stop taking their own meds and then
escape the consequences. But maybe that kind of reasoning doesn't
work because it assumes they WILL understand if someone explains
that they MUST take their meds and maybe crazy people truly DON'T
understand that.

Maybe it's impossible to make a crazy person responsible. I truly
don't know....

Arguably, "crazy" is a continuum and we all have some. If so, it should
no power to legally exonerate.

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