• [OT] Why *thorough* pat-downs are a must

    From Rhino@no_offline_contact@example.com to rec.arts.tv on Sun Oct 18 12:32:49 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

    A woman is arrested after a traffic stop, gets patted down, and still
    almost succeeds in shooting the officer with a gun hidden on her person.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQCqgXyppO8 [32 minutes]

    I understand that very few people carry guns where this woman put hers
    but there's obviously a genuine possibility that this COULD happen
    again. I understand that there are some very reasonable sensitivities to
    male officers searching women there but not every department has female officers that are readily available for this purpose so I'm at a loss to
    see an easy solution to this problem. Could a portable metal detector be
    used? Would it be effective through skin?

    I'm trying to imagine the mindset of the woman who hid a gun in such an intimate place. Given that some guns are notorious for unintended
    discharges, I'd be terrified of the consequences for her if she had one
    of those....
    --
    Rhino

    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Grok@cxzce@here.now to rec.arts.tv on Sun Oct 18 18:01:42 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

    Rhino wrote:

    A woman is arrested after a traffic stop, gets patted down, and still
    almost succeeds in shooting the officer with a gun hidden on her person.

    Who can blame cops for shooting people first and asking questions later since there are so many guns on the streets that every routine traffic stop could
    be a shootout.

    Guns are liberty and it's a small price to pay to be free.
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rhino@no_offline_contact@example.com to rec.arts.tv on Sun Oct 18 14:38:15 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

    On 2026-10-18 2:01 p.m., Grok wrote:
    Rhino wrote:

    A woman is arrested after a traffic stop, gets patted down, and still
    almost succeeds in shooting the officer with a gun hidden on her person.

    Who can blame cops for shooting people first and asking questions later since there are so many guns on the streets that every routine traffic stop could be a shootout.

    Guns are liberty and it's a small price to pay to be free.

    If you looked at bodycam videos like I do, you'd see that they bend over backwards NOT to shoot people.
    --
    Rhino
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From shawn@nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com to rec.arts.tv on Sun Oct 18 15:03:58 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

    On Sun, 18 Oct 2026 14:38:15 -0400, Rhino
    <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

    On 2026-10-18 2:01 p.m., Grok wrote:
    Rhino wrote:

    A woman is arrested after a traffic stop, gets patted down, and still
    almost succeeds in shooting the officer with a gun hidden on her person.

    Who can blame cops for shooting people first and asking questions later since
    there are so many guns on the streets that every routine traffic stop could >> be a shootout.

    Guns are liberty and it's a small price to pay to be free.

    If you looked at bodycam videos like I do, you'd see that they bend over >backwards NOT to shoot people.

    Except when they don't. Not that it happens often but there are cases
    where the LEO should never have been given a gun because they clearly
    think everyone they run into wants to kill them, given a chance.

    I'm always reminded of the cop that started shooting a car because an
    acorn fell from a tree, hitting the car and making the officer think
    he's being shot at.
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Roger Blake@rogblake@iname.invalid to rec.arts.tv on Sun Oct 18 19:11:46 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

    On 2026-10-18, Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
    If you looked at bodycam videos like I do, you'd see that they bend over backwards NOT to shoot people.

    Probably they don't want to do the paperwork.
    --
    Roger Blake
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From moviePig@nobody@nowhere.com to rec.arts.tv on Sun Oct 18 17:11:46 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

    On 10/18/2026 2:38 PM, Rhino wrote:
    On 2026-10-18 2:01 p.m., Grok wrote:
    Rhino wrote:

    A woman is arrested after a traffic stop, gets patted down, and still
    almost succeeds in shooting the officer with a gun hidden on her person.

    Who can blame cops for shooting people first and asking questions
    later since
    there are so many guns on the streets that every routine traffic stop
    could
    be a shootout.

    Guns are liberty and it's a small price to pay to be free.

    If you looked at bodycam videos like I do, you'd see that they bend over backwards NOT to shoot people.

    One would hope so. But one would also suspect selectivity in the
    bodycam videos one's allowed to see.


    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From NoBody@NoBody@nowhere.com to rec.arts.tv on Mon Oct 19 09:43:49 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

    On Sun, 18 Oct 2026 12:32:49 -0400, Rhino
    <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

    A woman is arrested after a traffic stop, gets patted down, and still
    almost succeeds in shooting the officer with a gun hidden on her person.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQCqgXyppO8 [32 minutes]

    I understand that very few people carry guns where this woman put hers
    but there's obviously a genuine possibility that this COULD happen
    again. I understand that there are some very reasonable sensitivities to >male officers searching women there but not every department has female >officers that are readily available for this purpose so I'm at a loss to
    see an easy solution to this problem. Could a portable metal detector be >used? Would it be effective through skin?

    I'm trying to imagine the mindset of the woman who hid a gun in such an >intimate place. Given that some guns are notorious for unintended >discharges, I'd be terrified of the consequences for her if she had one
    of those....

    I think that given everything is on video these days we have to stop
    this silliness about women getting special rights on searches and do a
    proper search the first time.
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rhino@no_offline_contact@example.com to rec.arts.tv on Mon Oct 19 10:25:03 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

    On 2026-10-19 9:43 a.m., NoBody wrote:
    On Sun, 18 Oct 2026 12:32:49 -0400, Rhino
    <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

    A woman is arrested after a traffic stop, gets patted down, and still
    almost succeeds in shooting the officer with a gun hidden on her person.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQCqgXyppO8 [32 minutes]

    I understand that very few people carry guns where this woman put hers
    but there's obviously a genuine possibility that this COULD happen
    again. I understand that there are some very reasonable sensitivities to
    male officers searching women there but not every department has female
    officers that are readily available for this purpose so I'm at a loss to
    see an easy solution to this problem. Could a portable metal detector be
    used? Would it be effective through skin?

    I'm trying to imagine the mindset of the woman who hid a gun in such an
    intimate place. Given that some guns are notorious for unintended
    discharges, I'd be terrified of the consequences for her if she had one
    of those....

    I think that given everything is on video these days we have to stop
    this silliness about women getting special rights on searches and do a
    proper search the first time.

    I think there is going to be an ENORMOUS amount of pushback from women -
    and their husbands/lovers - about cops doing cavity searches on every
    woman that gets a pat-down. The shit-storm would be almost unimaginable:
    "You want to allow male cops to put their hands in my
    wife's/girlfriend's most private areas? HELL NO!!!!"

    Two things are a lot more likely: women will only have their private
    areas searched when there is a woman available to do the searching and officers will just have to hope that guns in vaginas don't become a
    common thing OR more women will be hired primarily to take on this task.
    --
    Rhino
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Adam H. Kerman@ahk@chinet.com to rec.arts.tv on Mon Oct 19 15:33:36 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

    Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

    I understand that very few people carry guns where this woman put hers
    but there's obviously a genuine possibility that this COULD happen
    again. I understand that there are some very reasonable sensitivities to >male officers searching women there but not every department has female >officers that are readily available for this purpose so I'm at a loss to
    see an easy solution to this problem. Could a portable metal detector be >used? Would it be effective through skin?

    This goes back to smuggling and spycraft, thousands and thousands of
    years. Someone smuggling hides contraband in a body cavity knowing it
    cannot be felt in a pat down or that the guard or patrol officer won't
    do a thorough search because he is squemish. Having a female search a
    female helps in bringing a prisoner into jail or court, but in a
    roadside stop, typically a pat down is allowed but not a pocket search
    nor cavity search.
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rhino@no_offline_contact@example.com to rec.arts.tv on Mon Oct 19 12:16:39 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

    On 2026-10-19 11:33 a.m., Adam H. Kerman wrote:
    Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

    I understand that very few people carry guns where this woman put hers
    but there's obviously a genuine possibility that this COULD happen
    again. I understand that there are some very reasonable sensitivities to
    male officers searching women there but not every department has female
    officers that are readily available for this purpose so I'm at a loss to
    see an easy solution to this problem. Could a portable metal detector be
    used? Would it be effective through skin?

    This goes back to smuggling and spycraft, thousands and thousands of
    years. Someone smuggling hides contraband in a body cavity knowing it
    cannot be felt in a pat down or that the guard or patrol officer won't
    do a thorough search because he is squemish. Having a female search a
    female helps in bringing a prisoner into jail or court, but in a
    roadside stop, typically a pat down is allowed but not a pocket search
    nor cavity search.
    So there's no solution to this and officers need to accept that there
    will always be a risk in transporting women? That's definitely not ideal
    but it may be the best we can hope for unless there's a tech
    breakthrough or the problem becomes so rampant that roadside cavity
    searches become the norm.
    --
    Rhino
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Adam H. Kerman@ahk@chinet.com to rec.arts.tv on Mon Oct 19 17:20:59 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

    Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

    . . .

    So there's no solution to this and officers need to accept that there
    will always be a risk in transporting women? That's definitely not ideal
    but it may be the best we can hope for unless there's a tech
    breakthrough or the problem becomes so rampant that roadside cavity
    searches become the norm.

    It's not just women in custody. See

    Subject: Inexcusable shooting of two police officers, one dead, one seriously wounded

    That prisoner was in custody, under arrest, in hospital. Neither medical
    staff nor police searched under his extensive skin folds.
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rhino@no_offline_contact@example.com to rec.arts.tv on Mon Oct 19 14:35:40 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

    On 2026-10-19 1:20 p.m., Adam H. Kerman wrote:
    Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

    . . .

    So there's no solution to this and officers need to accept that there
    will always be a risk in transporting women? That's definitely not ideal
    but it may be the best we can hope for unless there's a tech
    breakthrough or the problem becomes so rampant that roadside cavity
    searches become the norm.

    It's not just women in custody. See

    Subject: Inexcusable shooting of two police officers, one dead, one seriously wounded

    That prisoner was in custody, under arrest, in hospital. Neither medical staff nor police searched under his extensive skin folds.

    That's a hell of an imaginative approach to concealed carry: get so fat
    that you have immense folds of skin and use them as your holster!

    You're right, it's *not* just women in custody! Now I want to know if
    metal detectors could find guns hidden in skin folds, anuses, and
    vaginas....

    I asked ChatGPT this question:

    A question about metal detectors. As a matter of police safety, it is important to ensure that detainees are not armed, particularly with
    guns, but real-life incidents have shown that people have, on occasion,
    hidden weapons in anuses, vaginas, and even under folds of skin (of very
    obese people). Are there any portable metal detectors that could detect
    such weapons?

    The reply: =========================================================================== Yes, but with an important qualification: portable metal detectors can
    detect some weapons concealed inside or against the body, but they
    cannot reliably establish that a detainee is unarmed. The distinction is between detecting metal and determining where it is, what it is, and
    whether a weapon is present.

    There are several technologies worth distinguishing here. The fact that
    a weapon is concealed in a body cavity or beneath a skin fold doesn't necessarily make it undetectable; the bigger issue is whether the
    instrument can detect the material at that depth and distinguish it from
    other objects or ordinary background signals.

    1. What kinds of detectors are available?

    A. Handheld metal-detecting wand

    Portable
    The familiar wand used by police and security staff can detect metal
    close to the body, including metal that is not visible externally. It
    may detect a metallic object concealed in a body cavity or beneath a
    skin fold, depending on the device, the object, and its position. It
    cannot reliably detect every weapon.

    NIST
    +1

    mm wave scanner : Working, benefits and manufacturers | RF Wireless World

    B. Millimetre-wave body scanner

    This is the technology used in many airport body scanners. It can reveal objects concealed beneath clothing, including certain non-metallic
    objects, but ordinary millimetre-wave scanners do not reliably see
    inside the body. Portable versions and specialized screening systems
    exist, but they are not equivalent to a handheld metal-detecting wand.

    Office of the Privacy Commissioner
    +1

    Smiths Detection | Smiths Detection B-SCAN 16HR-FB | 603-249-9820

    C. Whole-body transmission X-ray scanner

    This is the more relevant technology when the concern is a weapon hidden inside a body cavity. Transmission X-rays pass through the body and can
    reveal concealed objects internally, including some metallic and
    non-metallic contraband. These systems are substantially more
    specialized than portable wands and are generally installed in
    controlled screening facilities.

    Office of Justice Programs
    +1

    2. What about the particular hiding places you mention?

    [This is a table with the first three items being the column titles. I
    can't think of any good way to render this in Usenet.]

    Concealment location

    Handheld metal detector

    More capable screening

    Beneath a skin fold

    May detect a metallic weapon

    Body imaging may help

    Inside the rectum or vagina

    May detect a metallic weapon, but cannot guarantee detection

    Transmission X-ray is designed to reveal internal objects

    A weapon made mostly of plastic or ceramic

    May fail to detect it

    Imaging technology may reveal it, depending on the scanner and object

    These are general capabilities, not guarantees for every device or every weapon. The U.S. National Institute of Justice's review of body-cavity screening technologies specifically distinguishes devices that detect
    objects on the body's surface from those capable of detecting objects
    inside it.

    Office of Justice Programs
    +1

    3. Is there a genuinely portable solution for police?
    For an initial safety check, yes; for a definitive all-clear, no.

    A handheld wand is inexpensive, easily carried, and useful for screening
    a detainee. But it detects metal, not weapons as such. It can alarm over harmless objects, and a negative result does not prove that a person is unarmed.

    A practical police screening procedure therefore combines electronic
    detection with other appropriate search procedures. Where there is a
    credible suspicion of a weapon concealed internally, a handheld wand is
    not a substitute for a more suitable examination.

    There is also a legal and medical distinction: an internal examination
    is much more intrusive than an ordinary pat-down and should be handled
    under the applicable legal authority and appropriate medical safeguards.

    One particularly relevant reference is the U.S. National Institute of Justice's report, Body Cavity Screening for Criminal Justice: Market
    Survey. It examines the capabilities and limitations of the different technologies specifically for correctional and law-enforcement use.

    Office of Justice Programs

    The bottom line is that a portable wand can sometimes detect a metal
    weapon hidden in the places you describe, but no ordinary handheld metal detector can be relied upon to rule out all concealed weapons. The
    technology capable of detecting objects inside the body is generally
    much less portable and more specialized. ==========================================================================
    --
    Rhino
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The True Melissa@thetruemelissa@gmail.comNOSPAM to rec.arts.tv on Mon Oct 19 15:20:04 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

    Rhino wrote in article <11b597u$22929$1@dont-email.me>:
    I think that given everything is on video these days we have to stop
    this silliness about women getting special rights on searches and do a proper search the first time.

    I think there is going to be an ENORMOUS amount of pushback from women -
    and their husbands/lovers - about cops doing cavity searches on every
    woman that gets a pat-down. The shit-storm would be almost unimaginable: "You want to allow male cops to put their hands in my
    wife's/girlfriend's most private areas? HELL NO!!!!"

    A pat-down isn't a full search and isn't supposed to be. During a
    full search, either sex's butthole is examined. During a pat-
    down, nobody gets naked and no cavities are searched.

    If men and women aren't exposing their buttholes, women shouldn't
    have to expose their babyholes either.
    --
    The True Melissa - Canal Winchester - Ohio
    United States of America - North America - Earth
    Solar System - Milky Way - Local Group
    Virgo Cluster - Laniakea Supercluster - Cosmos
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From moviePig@nobody@nowhere.com to rec.arts.tv on Mon Oct 19 17:04:46 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

    On 10/19/2026 3:20 PM, The True Melissa wrote:
    Rhino wrote in article <11b597u$22929$1@dont-email.me>:
    I think that given everything is on video these days we have to stop
    this silliness about women getting special rights on searches and do a
    proper search the first time.

    I think there is going to be an ENORMOUS amount of pushback from women -
    and their husbands/lovers - about cops doing cavity searches on every
    woman that gets a pat-down. The shit-storm would be almost unimaginable:
    "You want to allow male cops to put their hands in my
    wife's/girlfriend's most private areas? HELL NO!!!!"

    A pat-down isn't a full search and isn't supposed to be. During a
    full search, either sex's butthole is examined. During a pat-
    down, nobody gets naked and no cavities are searched.

    If men and women aren't exposing their buttholes, women shouldn't
    have to expose their babyholes either.

    I learn so much here...


    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rhino@no_offline_contact@example.com to rec.arts.tv on Mon Oct 19 17:52:40 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

    On 2026-10-19 3:20 p.m., The True Melissa wrote:
    Rhino wrote in article <11b597u$22929$1@dont-email.me>:
    I think that given everything is on video these days we have to stop
    this silliness about women getting special rights on searches and do a
    proper search the first time.

    I think there is going to be an ENORMOUS amount of pushback from women -
    and their husbands/lovers - about cops doing cavity searches on every
    woman that gets a pat-down. The shit-storm would be almost unimaginable:
    "You want to allow male cops to put their hands in my
    wife's/girlfriend's most private areas? HELL NO!!!!"

    A pat-down isn't a full search and isn't supposed to be. During a
    full search, either sex's butthole is examined. During a pat-
    down, nobody gets naked and no cavities are searched.

    If men and women aren't exposing their buttholes, women shouldn't
    have to expose their babyholes either.


    I'm not disagreeing with you. It was "Nobody" who proposed doing
    roadside cavity searches. I was only mentioning a genuine risk to
    officers and speculating about solutions. I *know* that there is no jurisdiction in the West that would ever allow roadside cavity searches, although I'm not as confident about, say, North Korea.
    --
    Rhino
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Adam H. Kerman@ahk@chinet.com to rec.arts.tv on Mon Oct 19 22:17:02 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

    Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
    On 2026-10-19 1:20 p.m., Adam H. Kerman wrote:
    Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

    . . .

    So there's no solution to this and officers need to accept that there >>>will always be a risk in transporting women? That's definitely not ideal >>>but it may be the best we can hope for unless there's a tech
    breakthrough or the problem becomes so rampant that roadside cavity >>>searches become the norm.

    It's not just women in custody. See

    Subject: Inexcusable shooting of two police officers, one dead, one seriously >>wounded

    That prisoner was in custody, under arrest, in hospital. Neither medical >>staff nor police searched under his extensive skin folds.

    That's a hell of an imaginative approach to concealed carry: get so fat
    that you have immense folds of skin and use them as your holster!

    He had been somewhate obese but lost weight.

    You're right, it's *not* just women in custody! Now I want to know if
    metal detectors could find guns hidden in skin folds, anuses, and >vaginas....

    Won't help with 3D printed. Those are unreliable but could shoot once
    before deforming.

    . . .
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rhino@no_offline_contact@example.com to rec.arts.tv on Mon Oct 19 21:03:40 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

    On 2026-10-19 6:17 p.m., Adam H. Kerman wrote:
    Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
    On 2026-10-19 1:20 p.m., Adam H. Kerman wrote:
    Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

    . . .

    So there's no solution to this and officers need to accept that there
    will always be a risk in transporting women? That's definitely not ideal >>>> but it may be the best we can hope for unless there's a tech
    breakthrough or the problem becomes so rampant that roadside cavity
    searches become the norm.

    It's not just women in custody. See

    Subject: Inexcusable shooting of two police officers, one dead, one seriously
    wounded

    That prisoner was in custody, under arrest, in hospital. Neither medical >>> staff nor police searched under his extensive skin folds.

    That's a hell of an imaginative approach to concealed carry: get so fat
    that you have immense folds of skin and use them as your holster!

    He had been somewhate obese but lost weight.

    You're right, it's *not* just women in custody! Now I want to know if
    metal detectors could find guns hidden in skin folds, anuses, and
    vaginas....

    Won't help with 3D printed. Those are unreliable but could shoot once
    before deforming.

    . . .
    Yeah, I recognize that plastic guns would be harder if not impossible to detect. But I'm under the impression that most guns are still metal so something like a metal detector might still be useful, which ChatGPT
    says is correct *within limits*. Even if it only catches 90% - or even
    far less - of such cases, it could still save lives at moderate cost.

    There aren't a lot of simple total solutions in this world but if you
    can solve MOST of the problem, you're still ahead of the game.
    --
    Rhino
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2