The academics building the Internet did not participate in this process,
but the engineers doing the work went and swapped ideas, and once they
had working code, published open standards before patents could be
filed. We all know how this outcompeted the ITU and IEEE standards.
The academics building the Internet did not participate in this process,
but the engineers doing the work went and swapped ideas, and once they
had working code, published open standards before patents could be
filed. We all know how this outcompeted the ITU and IEEE standards.
Counterexamples: IEEE 754, IEEE 802, IEEE 1003 ...
On Mon, 25 Aug 2025 03:12:59 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:
The academics building the Internet did not participate in this process, >>> but the engineers doing the work went and swapped ideas, and once they
had working code, published open standards before patents could be
filed. We all know how this outcompeted the ITU and IEEE standards.
On 2025-11-25, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
Counterexamples: IEEE 754, IEEE 802, IEEE 1003 ...
Touché!
The academics building the Internet did not participate in this process, >>>> but the engineers doing the work went and swapped ideas, and once they >>>> had working code, published open standards before patents could be
filed. We all know how this outcompeted the ITU and IEEE standards.
Counterexamples: IEEE 754, IEEE 802, IEEE 1003 ...
Touché!
these were all pragmatic harmonisations of existing solutions.
What did NOT work were the X protocols - so big only a mainframe could implement them.
TCP/IP was light and pragmatic and developed as the need arose.
In contrast, MCI created a working gateway so send ARPAnet
email to any TELEX machine. (But then they had Vint Cerf heading up
their networking efforts!)
One of the fundamental reasons why TCP/IP worked much better was the
notion of "well-known ports". The ISO/X people insisted that this
level of resolution was a function of the Directory ... to be
defined later.
On Mon, 25 Aug 2025 03:12:59 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:
The academics building the Internet did not participate in this process, >>>>> but the engineers doing the work went and swapped ideas, and once they >>>>> had working code, published open standards before patents could be
filed. We all know how this outcompeted the ITU and IEEE standards.
On 2025-11-25, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
Counterexamples: IEEE 754, IEEE 802, IEEE 1003 ...
On 26/11/2025 14:33, Lars Poulsen wrote:
Touché!
On 2025-11-26, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
these were all pragmatic harmonisations of existing solutions.
What did NOT work were the X protocols - so big only a mainframe could
implement them.
TCP/IP was light and pragmatic and developed as the need arose.
One of the fundamental reasons why TCP/IP worked much better was the
notion of "well-known ports". The ISO/X people insisted that this level
of resolution was a function of the Directory ... to be defined later.
Long after MILnet was up and running for years, the Pentagon
commissioned a military-wide email system based on X.500 etc, and a
remember shaking my head at a press release celebrating the successful installation and activastion of that system. The gateway between that "official" system and the real, working global system was incredibly
clunky, and it was almost impossible to create a message that could get across. In contrast, MCI created a working gateway so send ARPAnet
email to any TELEX machine. (But then they had Vint Cerf heading up
their networking efforts!)
On 11/27/25 08:51, Lars Poulsen wrote:
On Mon, 25 Aug 2025 03:12:59 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:
The academics building the Internet did not participate in this
process,
but the engineers doing the work went and swapped ideas, and once >>>>>> they
had working code, published open standards before patents could be >>>>>> filed. We all know how this outcompeted the ITU and IEEE standards.
On 2025-11-25, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On 26/11/2025 14:33, Lars Poulsen wrote:Counterexamples: IEEE 754, IEEE 802, IEEE 1003 ...
Touché!
On 2025-11-26, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
these were all pragmatic harmonisations of existing solutions.
What did NOT work were the X protocols - so big only a mainframe could
implement them.
TCP/IP was light and pragmatic and developed as the need arose.
One of the fundamental reasons why TCP/IP worked much better was the
notion of "well-known ports". The ISO/X people insisted that this level
of resolution was a function of the Directory ... to be defined later.
Long after MILnet was up and running for years, the Pentagon
commissioned a military-wide email system based on X.500 etc, and a
remember shaking my head at a press release celebrating the successful
installation and activastion of that system. The gateway between that
"official" system and the real, working global system was incredibly
clunky, and it was almost impossible to create a message that could get
across. In contrast, MCI created a working gateway so send ARPAnet
email to any TELEX machine. (But then they had Vint Cerf heading up
their networking efforts!)
Put a committee onto anything and expect a
long-delayed expensive total clusterfuck.
One of the fundamental reasons why TCP/IP worked much better was the
notion of "well-known ports". The ISO/X people insisted that this
level of resolution was a function of the Directory ... to be
defined later.
The TCP/IP people seemed to actively avoid any concept of
browseability.
Contrast this with AppleTalk, where you could just plug a new node
into the network, with essentially no configuration, and immediately
start discovering what services were available -- by name.
On Thu, 27 Nov 2025 13:51:08 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:
One of the fundamental reasons why TCP/IP worked much better was the
notion of "well-known ports". The ISO/X people insisted that this
level of resolution was a function of the Directory ... to be
defined later.
On 2025-11-27, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
The TCP/IP people seemed to actively avoid any concept of
browseability.
Contrast this with AppleTalk, where you could just plug a new node
into the network, with essentially no configuration, and immediately
start discovering what services were available -- by name.
The IETF people were aware that they were designing for a large network
with very limited bandwidth on many links.
Appletalk networks were very local. The feature you describe is built on
a lot of broadcast background traffic.
Put a committee onto anything and expect a long-delayed expensive
total clusterfuck.
GSM was designed by committee and it is a wonderful thing the entire
world has adopted. Even the USA dumped their own system(s) and switched lovingly. :-D
GSM was designed by committee and it is a wonderful thing the entire
world has adopted. Even the USA dumped their own system(s) and
switched lovingly. :-D
One thing I remember hearing: "A committee is an organism with many
heads and no brain."
On Fri, 28 Nov 2025 13:02:34 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
GSM was designed by committee and it is a wonderful thing the entire
world has adopted. Even the USA dumped their own system(s) and
switched lovingly. :-D
No need for a smiley. The Reagan-era USA chose to "let the market
decide" in terms of mobile telephony standards, and ended up with a
babel of incompatible networks. The EU decided to come up with a
common standard that was so good, it was adopted in much of the rest
of the world.
We would take it for granted that we could buy a phone, and then
choose which carrier to connect it to, by buying the appropriate SIM
from them. The idea of having to choose a carrier first, and then buy
a phone from them, seemed pretty alien.
I remember, in the early days of Android, when new models came out
from Samsung, HTC, Oppo or whoever, they could be available throughout
the GSM world in about a couple of weeks, while American users had to
wait for adaptations specific to their various networks to be
produced.
Only to you, a quick web search shows phone network locking looks
as common in NZ as it is in Australia.
I remember, in the early days of Android, when new models came out from Samsung, HTC, Oppo or whoever, they could be available throughout the
GSM world in about a couple of weeks, while American users had to wait
for adaptations specific to their various networks to be produced.
On 2025-11-28 07:39, c186282 wrote:
On 11/27/25 08:51, Lars Poulsen wrote:
On Mon, 25 Aug 2025 03:12:59 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:
The academics building the Internet did not participate in this >>>>>>> process,
but the engineers doing the work went and swapped ideas, and once >>>>>>> they
had working code, published open standards before patents could be >>>>>>> filed. We all know how this outcompeted the ITU and IEEE standards.
On 2025-11-25, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On 26/11/2025 14:33, Lars Poulsen wrote:Counterexamples: IEEE 754, IEEE 802, IEEE 1003 ...
Touché!
On 2025-11-26, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
these were all pragmatic harmonisations of existing solutions.
What did NOT work were the X protocols - so big only a mainframe could >>>> implement them.
TCP/IP was light and pragmatic and developed as the need arose.
One of the fundamental reasons why TCP/IP worked much better was the
notion of "well-known ports". The ISO/X people insisted that this level
of resolution was a function of the Directory ... to be defined later.
Long after MILnet was up and running for years, the Pentagon
commissioned a military-wide email system based on X.500 etc, and a
remember shaking my head at a press release celebrating the successful
installation and activastion of that system. The gateway between that
"official" system and the real, working global system was incredibly
clunky, and it was almost impossible to create a message that could get
across. In contrast, MCI created a working gateway so send ARPAnet
email to any TELEX machine. (But then they had Vint Cerf heading up
their networking efforts!)
Put a committee onto anything and expect a
long-delayed expensive total clusterfuck.
GSM was designed by committee and it is a wonderful thing the entire
world has adopted.
Even the USA dumped their own system(s) and switched
lovingly. :-D
On 29 Nov 2025 08:14:05 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Only to you, a quick web search shows phone network locking looks
as common in NZ as it is in Australia.
Why did you compare Australia rather than, say, the US?
Obviously in both NZ and Australia, unlocked phones are freely available,
not so much in the US.
On Fri, 28 Nov 2025 21:35:54 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
I remember, in the early days of Android, when new models came out from
Samsung, HTC, Oppo or whoever, they could be available throughout the
GSM world in about a couple of weeks, while American users had to wait
for adaptations specific to their various networks to be produced.
iirc AT&T was GSM but they had no infrastructure in this area. Verizon was CDMA. I didn't have a problem with Verizon when traveling, including California. I think AT&T was stronger in the Pacific Northest and the
east.
In this case progress was useful. I bought a new phone at BestBuy last
month. Take it home, swap in the SIM, transfer my stuff, and I was good to go.
On 11/28/25 21:00, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On 29 Nov 2025 08:14:05 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Only to you, a quick web search shows phone network locking looks
as common in NZ as it is in Australia.
Why did you compare Australia rather than, say, the US?
Obviously in both NZ and Australia, unlocked phones are freely available,
not so much in the US.
Well, you can GET them easily enough ... but
you pay EXTRA.
On 29 Nov 2025 08:14:05 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Only to you, a quick web search shows phone network locking looks
as common in NZ as it is in Australia.
Why did you compare Australia rather than, say, the US?
Obviously in both NZ and Australia, unlocked phones are freely available,
not so much in the US.
On 11/28/25 21:42, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 28 Nov 2025 21:35:54 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
I remember, in the early days of Android, when new models came out from
Samsung, HTC, Oppo or whoever, they could be available throughout the
GSM world in about a couple of weeks, while American users had to wait
for adaptations specific to their various networks to be produced.
iirc AT&T was GSM but they had no infrastructure in this area. Verizon
was
CDMA. I didn't have a problem with Verizon when traveling, including
California. I think AT&T was stronger in the Pacific Northest and the
east.
In this case progress was useful. I bought a new phone at BestBuy last
month. Take it home, swap in the SIM, transfer my stuff, and I was
good to
go.
The USA likes to "throw a bunch of stuff out there" and
then LATER find a popular standard. USA might have come
up with something 'better' than GSM. Didn't, but that's
not the point. Too much of a standards push too early
generally means you get Standard CRAP.
Committees are mostly dedicated to their
own perpetuation and ability to jam up
the works for everyone else - pencil-neck
power trips.
On 11/28/25 07:02, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-11-28 07:39, c186282 wrote:
On 11/27/25 08:51, Lars Poulsen wrote:
On Mon, 25 Aug 2025 03:12:59 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:
Put a committee onto anything and expect a
long-delayed expensive total clusterfuck.
GSM was designed by committee and it is a wonderful thing the entire
world has adopted.
Pure luck ! Expect very few repeats.
Committees are mostly dedicated to their
own perpetuation and ability to jam up
the works for everyone else - pencil-neck
power trips.
Even the USA dumped their own system(s) and switched lovingly. :-D
Hmmm ... use ADA a lot ? Designed by large
committees over a long time :-)
Figure an 80% suicide rate for those forced
to do ADA projects :-)
On 29 Nov 2025 08:14:05 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Only to you, a quick web search shows phone network locking looks as
common in NZ as it is in Australia.
Why did you compare Australia rather than, say, the US?
Obviously in both NZ and Australia, unlocked phones are freely
available,
not so much in the US.
On 11/28/25 21:00, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On 29 Nov 2025 08:14:05 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Only to you, a quick web search shows phone network locking looks as
common in NZ as it is in Australia.
Why did you compare Australia rather than, say, the US?
Obviously in both NZ and Australia, unlocked phones are freely
available,
not so much in the US.
Well, you can GET them easily enough ... but you pay EXTRA.
The government airship - the R101 - was a disaster.
On 29/11/2025 04:45, c186282 wrote:
On 11/28/25 21:42, rbowman wrote:The issue is in the philosophy that says 'we must think of everything
On Fri, 28 Nov 2025 21:35:54 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
I remember, in the early days of Android, when new models came out from >>>> Samsung, HTC, Oppo or whoever, they could be available throughout the
GSM world in about a couple of weeks, while American users had to wait >>>> for adaptations specific to their various networks to be produced.
iirc AT&T was GSM but they had no infrastructure in this area.
Verizon was
CDMA. I didn't have a problem with Verizon when traveling, including
California. I think AT&T was stronger in the Pacific Northest and the
east.
In this case progress was useful. I bought a new phone at BestBuy last
month. Take it home, swap in the SIM, transfer my stuff, and I was
good to
go.
The USA likes to "throw a bunch of stuff out there" and
then LATER find a popular standard. USA might have come
up with something 'better' than GSM. Didn't, but that's
not the point. Too much of a standards push too early
generally means you get Standard CRAP.
and create a standard that covers it all' and 'we need a standard to interoperate with what we have right now. The rest can come later'
The first approach leads to monstrosities like X windows, X
communication protocols and PostScript. And probably systemd
The second led to Unix, C and TCP/IP.
On 2025-11-29 04:16, c186282 wrote:
On 11/28/25 07:02, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-11-28 07:39, c186282 wrote:
On 11/27/25 08:51, Lars Poulsen wrote:
On Mon, 25 Aug 2025 03:12:59 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:
Put a committee onto anything and expect a
long-delayed expensive total clusterfuck.
GSM was designed by committee and it is a wonderful thing the entire
world has adopted.
Pure luck ! Expect very few repeats.
No such thing. A well done job.
Committees are mostly dedicated to their
own perpetuation and ability to jam up
the works for everyone else - pencil-neck
power trips.
Even the USA dumped their own system(s) and switched lovingly. :-D
Hmmm ... use ADA a lot ? Designed by large
committees over a long time :-)
Figure an 80% suicide rate for those forced
to do ADA projects :-)
On Sat, 29 Nov 2025 11:18:46 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The government airship - the R101 - was a disaster.
https://nationalsecurityjournal.org/the-u-s-navy-cant-fix-its-warship- crisis/
There were two competing designs for the Littoral Combat Ship program so
they built both. Both sucked and could be taken out by a Somali in a
Zodiac.
The Zumwalt class had an embarrassing need to be towed home and had an advanced weapon system the Navy couldn't afford to but ammunition for.
The next step was to buy what amounted to a COTS frigate. They made so
many changes to the design it went over schedule and over budget.
Fortunately the Arleigh Burke class motors on. For reference, that was featured in 'The Last Ship'.
Then there's the F35 and other disasters.
STILL expecting a "USB-V" for attachable devices,
a +5v, +3.1v, GND ... and an optical fiber for the data exchange. Aim
for 250gBS capability and wait for the actual chips to catch up.
On Sat, 29 Nov 2025 21:47:46 -0500, c186282 wrote:
STILL expecting a "USB-V" for attachable devices,
a +5v, +3.1v, GND ... and an optical fiber for the data exchange. Aim
for 250gBS capability and wait for the actual chips to catch up.
Just what the world needs. I've got cables for Standard-A, Standard-B, Mini-B, Micro-B, and USB-C. Micro-B and USB-C are a particular pain in
the ass. I've even got the little adapters, I think Micro-B male and USB-C female, or maybe the other way around. Then there is the special little
cable that, because #28 wire is so expensive, doesn't have the data lines.
I may have chopped that up into 1" pieces the last time it pissed me off. Then there is the USB-C to HDMI for the RPi.
On Sat, 29 Nov 2025 02:00:58 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On 29 Nov 2025 08:14:05 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Only to you, a quick web search shows phone network locking looks as
common in NZ as it is in Australia.
Why did you compare Australia rather than, say, the US?
Obviously in both NZ and Australia, unlocked phones are freely
available,
not so much in the US.
I didn't have a problem walking into BestBuy and leaving with an unlocked Samsung A16. I'd bought the previous unlocked Nokia from Amazon but the Samsung was the same price on Amazon and BestBuy is next to the gym I go
to.
On Sat, 29 Nov 2025 11:18:46 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The government airship - the R101 - was a disaster.
https://nationalsecurityjournal.org/the-u-s-navy-cant-fix-its-warship- crisis/
There were two competing designs for the Littoral Combat Ship program so
they built both. Both sucked and could be taken out by a Somali in a
Zodiac.
The Zumwalt class had an embarrassing need to be towed home and had an advanced weapon system the Navy couldn't afford to but ammunition for.
The next step was to buy what amounted to a COTS frigate. They made so
many changes to the design it went over schedule and over budget.
Fortunately the Arleigh Burke class motors on. For reference, that was featured in 'The Last Ship'.
Then there's the F35 and other disasters.
On 11/29/25 15:25, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 29 Nov 2025 11:18:46 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The government airship - the R101 - was a disaster.
https://nationalsecurityjournal.org/the-u-s-navy-cant-fix-its-warship-
crisis/
There were two competing designs for the Littoral Combat Ship program so
they built both. Both sucked and could be taken out by a Somali in a
Zodiac.
The Zumwalt class had an embarrassing need to be towed home and had an
advanced weapon system the Navy couldn't afford to but ammunition for.
The next step was to buy what amounted to a COTS frigate. They made so
many changes to the design it went over schedule and over budget.
Fortunately the Arleigh Burke class motors on. For reference, that was
featured in 'The Last Ship'.
Then there's the F35 and other disasters.
The USA has long been overly-fixated on "multi-mission",
which generally means the products aren't especially good
at ANY mission - and cost out the ass.
Now imagine if some World Committee had decided
and enforced *a* programming lang in 1954, *a*
data-exchange format, *a* connection buss !!!
On Sat, 29 Nov 2025 11:18:46 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The government airship - the R101 - was a disaster.
https://nationalsecurityjournal.org/the-u-s-navy-cant-fix-its-warship- crisis/
There were two competing designs for the Littoral Combat Ship program so--
they built both. Both sucked and could be taken out by a Somali in a
Zodiac.
The Zumwalt class had an embarrassing need to be towed home and had an advanced weapon system the Navy couldn't afford to but ammunition for.
The next step was to buy what amounted to a COTS frigate. They made so
many changes to the design it went over schedule and over budget.
Fortunately the Arleigh Burke class motors on. For reference, that was featured in 'The Last Ship'.
Then there's the F35 and other disasters.
On 30/11/2025 03:59, c186282 wrote:
On 11/29/25 15:25, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 29 Nov 2025 11:18:46 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The government airship - the R101 - was a disaster.
https://nationalsecurityjournal.org/the-u-s-navy-cant-fix-its-warship-
crisis/
On 29/11/2025 20:25, rbowman wrote:
Then there's the F35 and other disasters.
Indeed.
"close enough for government work" is a standard phrase.
Also "good enough for jazz", referring to the atonal nature of most of it.
On 30/11/2025 02:47, c186282 wrote:
Now imagine if some World Committee had decided
and enforced *a* programming lang in 1954, *a*
data-exchange format, *a* connection buss !!!
God help us.
On 2025-11-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 29/11/2025 20:25, rbowman wrote:
Then there's the F35 and other disasters.
Indeed.
"close enough for government work" is a standard phrase.
Here in Canada we're considering whether to supplement our upcoming
F-35 purchase with Sweden's Gripen; considerations resemble a decision
on whether to purchase an unlocked phone.
Comedy shows are already showing photos of a Gripen with an IKEA logo stenciled on the side, and are making cracks about the Allen key that
comes with the jets for assembly.
Also "good enough for jazz", referring to the atonal nature of most of it.
"Do it once, it's a mistake; do it twice, it's jazz."
On 2025-11-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 29/11/2025 20:25, rbowman wrote:
Then there's the F35 and other disasters.
Indeed.
"close enough for government work" is a standard phrase.
Here in Canada we're considering whether to supplement our upcoming
F-35 purchase with Sweden's Gripen; considerations resemble a decision
on whether to purchase an unlocked phone.
Comedy shows are already showing photos of a Gripen with an IKEA logo stenciled on the side, and are making cracks about the Allen key that
comes with the jets for assembly.
Also "good enough for jazz", referring to the atonal nature of most of it.
"Do it once, it's a mistake; do it twice, it's jazz."
On 30/11/2025 02:47, c186282 wrote:
Now imagine if some World Committee had decided
and enforced *a* programming lang in 1954, *a*
data-exchange format, *a* connection buss !!!
God help us.
On 2025-11-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 29/11/2025 20:25, rbowman wrote:
Then there's the F35 and other disasters.
Indeed.
"close enough for government work" is a standard phrase.
Here in Canada we're considering whether to supplement our upcoming F-35 purchase with Sweden's Gripen; considerations resemble a decision on
whether to purchase an unlocked phone.
Comedy shows are already showing photos of a Gripen with an IKEA logo stenciled on the side, and are making cracks about the Allen key that
comes with the jets for assembly.
On Sun, 30 Nov 2025 10:31:22 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 30/11/2025 02:47, c186282 wrote:
Now imagine if some World Committee had decided
and enforced *a* programming lang in 1954, *a*
data-exchange format, *a* connection buss !!!
God help us.
I never did figure out how to use A Programming Language (APL). Then there was Programming Language One. Nobody ever accused IBM of humility.
On Sun, 30 Nov 2025 16:54:28 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-11-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 29/11/2025 20:25, rbowman wrote:
Then there's the F35 and other disasters.
Indeed.
"close enough for government work" is a standard phrase.
Here in Canada we're considering whether to supplement our upcoming F-35
purchase with Sweden's Gripen; considerations resemble a decision on
whether to purchase an unlocked phone.
Comedy shows are already showing photos of a Gripen with an IKEA logo
stenciled on the side, and are making cracks about the Allen key that
comes with the jets for assembly.
Now there is a classic dilemma. The F35 is no prize but I wouldn't want to drive a Saab either.
I bought an unlocked samsung but it didn't have the same firmware as the
one from my supplier that allowed wifi calling, so I took it back...
On Sun, 30 Nov 2025 10:22:29 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I bought an unlocked samsung but it didn't have the same firmware as the
one from my supplier that allowed wifi calling, so I took it back...
No problem with WiFi calling on mine although there is a toggle to allow
it. I should research how that works for incoming calls.
Here in Canada we're considering whether to supplement our upcoming
F-35 purchase with Sweden's Gripen; considerations resemble a decision
on whether to purchase an unlocked phone.
Comedy shows are already showing photos of a Gripen with an IKEA logo stenciled on the side, and are making cracks about the Allen key that
comes with the jets for assembly.
On Sun, 30 Nov 2025 10:31:22 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 30/11/2025 02:47, c186282 wrote:
Now imagine if some World Committee had decided
and enforced *a* programming lang in 1954, *a*
data-exchange format, *a* connection buss !!!
God help us.
I never did figure out how to use A Programming Language (APL). Then there was Programming Language One. Nobody ever accused IBM of humility.
On 2025-11-30, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
Here in Canada we're considering whether to supplement our upcoming
F-35 purchase with Sweden's Gripen; considerations resemble a decision
on whether to purchase an unlocked phone.
Comedy shows are already showing photos of a Gripen with an IKEA logo
stenciled on the side, and are making cracks about the Allen key that
comes with the jets for assembly.
In my native Denmark, it was decided a several years ago that their
once state-of-the-art F16s needed replacement - the airframes had almost
run out of flight hours. The parliament were looking at 4 choices:
* replace them with freshly built F16s
* replace them with Gripen
* replace them with Eurofighter Typhoon
* replace them with a smaller number of F35.
Option 1 was quite popular, especially liked by the pilots.
Option 4 was the least popular.
The parliamentary committee was then told that opton 1 was not
available: The assembly line had been dismantled. (This was later
discovered to be false: The US is still building F16 for Israel as well
as a few other middle eastern countries.)
The top politicians were really pushing the F35, despite the fact that
even if it worked perfectly, it did not fit the stated mission of air
defense for the Kingdom: It caan't get up to cruising speed within
Danish airspace. And at the same time, it does not have enough range to
get from Denmark up to patrol the sea around Greenland without en-route refueling. What it really works for, it to support US missions in the
Middle East, which was viewed as geopolitically correct at the time.
In contrast, the Gripen is built to operate in an airspace of the Danish scale and works really well in most European theaters. Plus, we actually
like the Swedes.
In the end, they bought about half as many f35s as they could have
gotten for the same money if they had bought F16 or Gripen.
Today, there is some regret, especially considering that the US is the
only counry that has openly threatened to invade Denmark!
Kudos to Canada for their choice!
On 30/11/2025 03:59, c186282 wrote:
On 11/29/25 15:25, rbowman wrote:I read up on the littorals. Good ideas but just a bit too bleeding edge.
On Sat, 29 Nov 2025 11:18:46 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The government airship - the R101 - was a disaster.
https://nationalsecurityjournal.org/the-u-s-navy-cant-fix-its-warship-
crisis/
There were two competing designs for the Littoral Combat Ship program so >>> they built both. Both sucked and could be taken out by a Somali in a
Zodiac.
The Zumwalt class had an embarrassing need to be towed home and had an
advanced weapon system the Navy couldn't afford to but ammunition for.
The next step was to buy what amounted to a COTS frigate. They made so
many changes to the design it went over schedule and over budget.
Fortunately the Arleigh Burke class motors on. For reference, that was
featured in 'The Last Ship'.
Then there's the F35 and other disasters.
The USA has long been overly-fixated on "multi-mission",
which generally means the products aren't especially good
at ANY mission - and cost out the ass.
Designed to be sold to the Navy, not to actually work. Pork barrelled to avoid job losses as well...
'Twas ever thus...
On 30/11/2025 02:47, c186282 wrote:
Now imagine if some World Committee had decided
and enforced *a* programming lang in 1954, *a*
data-exchange format, *a* connection buss !!!
God help us.
On 30/11/2025 18:59, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 30 Nov 2025 10:31:22 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 30/11/2025 02:47, c186282 wrote:
Now imagine if some World Committee had decided
and enforced *a* programming lang in 1954, *a*
data-exchange format, *a* connection buss !!!
God help us.
I never did figure out how to use A Programming Language (APL). Then
there
was Programming Language One. Nobody ever accused IBM of humility.
Well there was APL and PL/1 and Algol., BCPL, B and then C.
A continuously developed stream.
Ideas that worked, stayed. Needed bits were added. really shit ideas
were removed.
On Sun, 11/30/2025 7:10 PM, Lars Poulsen wrote:
On 2025-11-30, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
Here in Canada we're considering whether to supplement our upcoming
F-35 purchase with Sweden's Gripen; considerations resemble a decision
on whether to purchase an unlocked phone.
Comedy shows are already showing photos of a Gripen with an IKEA logo
stenciled on the side, and are making cracks about the Allen key that
comes with the jets for assembly.
In my native Denmark, it was decided a several years ago that their
once state-of-the-art F16s needed replacement - the airframes had almost
run out of flight hours. The parliament were looking at 4 choices:
* replace them with freshly built F16s
* replace them with Gripen
* replace them with Eurofighter Typhoon
* replace them with a smaller number of F35.
Option 1 was quite popular, especially liked by the pilots.
Option 4 was the least popular.
The parliamentary committee was then told that opton 1 was not
available: The assembly line had been dismantled. (This was later
discovered to be false: The US is still building F16 for Israel as well
as a few other middle eastern countries.)
The top politicians were really pushing the F35, despite the fact that
even if it worked perfectly, it did not fit the stated mission of air
defense for the Kingdom: It caan't get up to cruising speed within
Danish airspace. And at the same time, it does not have enough range to
get from Denmark up to patrol the sea around Greenland without en-route
refueling. What it really works for, it to support US missions in the
Middle East, which was viewed as geopolitically correct at the time.
In contrast, the Gripen is built to operate in an airspace of the Danish
scale and works really well in most European theaters. Plus, we actually
like the Swedes.
In the end, they bought about half as many f35s as they could have
gotten for the same money if they had bought F16 or Gripen.
Today, there is some regret, especially considering that the US is the
only counry that has openly threatened to invade Denmark!
Kudos to Canada for their choice!
We have bought some F35s, a small batch.
That contract is already in motion.
It was a question what to buy for the rest of the
acquisition. Which is why the Gripen was considered.
There may not be a plane that covers all our requirements,
which is why the acquisition is a tough one.
At one time, there was interest in a twin engine fighter,
but I don't know how many of those are for sale today.
The F-18 we had here, numbered 138 according to Wikipedia.
Some of those were used ones (perhaps the most recent
acquisition to stretch operations).
And this selection process has dragged on for a long time.
It is hard to say what stopped the decision process the
last two or three times, maybe the lack of a good fit
was doing that.
On 11/30/25 20:57, Paul wrote:
On Sun, 11/30/2025 7:10 PM, Lars Poulsen wrote:
On 2025-11-30, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
Here in Canada we're considering whether to supplement our upcoming
F-35 purchase with Sweden's Gripen; considerations resemble a decision >>>> on whether to purchase an unlocked phone.
Comedy shows are already showing photos of a Gripen with an IKEA logo
stenciled on the side, and are making cracks about the Allen key that
comes with the jets for assembly.
In my native Denmark, it was decided a several years ago that their
once state-of-the-art F16s needed replacement - the airframes had almost >>> run out of flight hours. The parliament were looking at 4 choices:
* replace them with freshly built F16s
* replace them with Gripen
* replace them with Eurofighter Typhoon
* replace them with a smaller number of F35.
Option 1 was quite popular, especially liked by the pilots.
Option 4 was the least popular.
The parliamentary committee was then told that opton 1 was not
available: The assembly line had been dismantled. (This was later
discovered to be false: The US is still building F16 for Israel as well
as a few other middle eastern countries.)
The top politicians were really pushing the F35, despite the fact that
even if it worked perfectly, it did not fit the stated mission of air
defense for the Kingdom: It caan't get up to cruising speed within
Danish airspace. And at the same time, it does not have enough range to
get from Denmark up to patrol the sea around Greenland without en-route
refueling. What it really works for, it to support US missions in the
Middle East, which was viewed as geopolitically correct at the time.
In contrast, the Gripen is built to operate in an airspace of the Danish >>> scale and works really well in most European theaters. Plus, we actually >>> like the Swedes.
In the end, they bought about half as many f35s as they could have
gotten for the same money if they had bought F16 or Gripen.
Today, there is some regret, especially considering that the US is the
only counry that has openly threatened to invade Denmark!
Kudos to Canada for their choice!
We have bought some F35s, a small batch.
That contract is already in motion.
It was a question what to buy for the rest of the
acquisition. Which is why the Gripen was considered.
There may not be a plane that covers all our requirements,
which is why the acquisition is a tough one.
At one time, there was interest in a twin engine fighter,
but I don't know how many of those are for sale today.
The F-18 we had here, numbered 138 according to Wikipedia.
Some of those were used ones (perhaps the most recent
acquisition to stretch operations).
And this selection process has dragged on for a long time.
It is hard to say what stopped the decision process the
last two or three times, maybe the lack of a good fit
was doing that.
Even supposed "one size fits all" solutions
like the F-16 and F-35 don't REALLY fit all
threats. Russia has moved increasingly towards
"hybrid" warfare, which can be weird, multi-
faceted and sometimes tight-quarters. Most
fighter jets are made for Open Sky battles
with similar aircraft.
For Denmark, maybe something like the Harrier ?
Quick, agile, closer-to-home solutions. Both
the UK and USA make variants ... pick ONE.
In the end, they bought about half as many f35s as they could have
gotten for the same money if they had bought F16 or Gripen.
Today, there is some regret, especially considering that the US is the
only counry that has openly threatened to invade Denmark!
Kudos to Canada for their choice!
maybe something like the Harrier ?
Quick, agile, closer-to-home solutions. Both
the UK and USA make variants ... pick ONE.
And that's the thing ... too tight/powerful a 'standard'
too early on and you undermine 'evolution'.
On Mon, 12/1/2025 1:34 AM, c186282 wrote:
On 11/30/25 20:57, Paul wrote:
On Sun, 11/30/2025 7:10 PM, Lars Poulsen wrote:
On 2025-11-30, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
Here in Canada we're considering whether to supplement our upcoming
F-35 purchase with Sweden's Gripen; considerations resemble a decision >>>>> on whether to purchase an unlocked phone.
Comedy shows are already showing photos of a Gripen with an IKEA logo >>>>> stenciled on the side, and are making cracks about the Allen key that >>>>> comes with the jets for assembly.
In my native Denmark, it was decided a several years ago that their
once state-of-the-art F16s needed replacement - the airframes had almost >>>> run out of flight hours. The parliament were looking at 4 choices:
* replace them with freshly built F16s
* replace them with Gripen
* replace them with Eurofighter Typhoon
* replace them with a smaller number of F35.
Option 1 was quite popular, especially liked by the pilots.
Option 4 was the least popular.
The parliamentary committee was then told that opton 1 was not
available: The assembly line had been dismantled. (This was later
discovered to be false: The US is still building F16 for Israel as well >>>> as a few other middle eastern countries.)
The top politicians were really pushing the F35, despite the fact that >>>> even if it worked perfectly, it did not fit the stated mission of air
defense for the Kingdom: It caan't get up to cruising speed within
Danish airspace. And at the same time, it does not have enough range to >>>> get from Denmark up to patrol the sea around Greenland without en-route >>>> refueling. What it really works for, it to support US missions in the
Middle East, which was viewed as geopolitically correct at the time.
In contrast, the Gripen is built to operate in an airspace of the Danish >>>> scale and works really well in most European theaters. Plus, we actually >>>> like the Swedes.
In the end, they bought about half as many f35s as they could have
gotten for the same money if they had bought F16 or Gripen.
Today, there is some regret, especially considering that the US is the >>>> only counry that has openly threatened to invade Denmark!
Kudos to Canada for their choice!
We have bought some F35s, a small batch.
That contract is already in motion.
It was a question what to buy for the rest of the
acquisition. Which is why the Gripen was considered.
There may not be a plane that covers all our requirements,
which is why the acquisition is a tough one.
At one time, there was interest in a twin engine fighter,
but I don't know how many of those are for sale today.
The F-18 we had here, numbered 138 according to Wikipedia.
Some of those were used ones (perhaps the most recent
acquisition to stretch operations).
And this selection process has dragged on for a long time.
It is hard to say what stopped the decision process the
last two or three times, maybe the lack of a good fit
was doing that.
Even supposed "one size fits all" solutions
like the F-16 and F-35 don't REALLY fit all
threats. Russia has moved increasingly towards
"hybrid" warfare, which can be weird, multi-
faceted and sometimes tight-quarters. Most
fighter jets are made for Open Sky battles
with similar aircraft.
For Denmark, maybe something like the Harrier ?
Quick, agile, closer-to-home solutions. Both
the UK and USA make variants ... pick ONE.
The whole (never ending) process is a can of worms.
On 01/12/2025 00:10, Lars Poulsen wrote:
In the end, they bought about half as many f35s as they could haveIndeed. Leave Denmark to the Danes I say. I certainly don't want it!
gotten for the same money if they had bought F16 or Gripen.
Today, there is some regret, especially considering that the US is the
only counry that has openly threatened to invade Denmark!
A lot of money slid into may pockets round the world to buy the F35.
And a lot of egg is now on a lot of faces
Kudos to Canada for their choice!
Yup.
On 01/12/2025 06:34, c186282 wrote:
maybe something like the Harrier ?
Quick, agile, closer-to-home solutions. Both
the UK and USA make variants ... pick ONE.
UK hasnt made one in years,
On 12/1/25 04:40, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/12/2025 06:34, c186282 wrote:
maybe something like the Harrier ?
Quick, agile, closer-to-home solutions. Both
the UK and USA make variants ... pick ONE.
UK hasnt made one in years,
Why not ??? They served so well in the Falklands thing.
Mach-2 was not needed, superior agility was.
Denmark is a special case too ... small, but also
a bit close to Russia/Kaliningrad for comfort too.
If Russia goes after Finland/Sweden it might seize
some of those little islands between, secure its
access to the North Sea.
On 01/12/2025 09:53, c186282 wrote:
On 12/1/25 04:40, The Natural Philosopher wrote:I dunno m8. We gave the design to the USA. Largely the function was taken over by attack helicopters.
On 01/12/2025 06:34, c186282 wrote:
maybe something like the Harrier ?
Quick, agile, closer-to-home solutions. Both
the UK and USA make variants ... pick ONE.
UK hasnt made one in years,
Why not ??? They served so well in the Falklands thing.
Mach-2 was not needed, superior agility was.
F35 is a poor attempt to reproduce the VTOL.
But aviation is changing, We don't want humans in the cockpit,. Too vulnerable and expensive. It will be operators with headsets at base running swarms of AI enabled drones.
Ukraine claims to have held a defensive position for 6 weeks using one
robot controlled machine gun.
Land based crawlers can penetrate woodland and kamikaze trhemselves
against Russian positions.
Chinese Chips running linux are cheaper than soldiers. and can be
trained via a USB cable.
Gen Z lardarses raised on 'Call of Duty' make effective drone pilots although totally unsuitable as infantry.
The key will be the creation and sustaining of a battlefield comms
network. Floating access point routers running multiband radio links
able to break through interference. And give navigation information when
GPS is jammed out.
Nano drones feeding on sunlight, drifting over the battlefield
administering lethal stings to anyone whose DNA 'smells funny' .
etc. etc.
Who needs an F35?
On 01/12/2025 09:50, c186282 wrote:
Denmark is a special case too ... small, but also
a bit close to Russia/Kaliningrad for comfort too.
If Russia goes after Finland/Sweden it might seize
some of those little islands between, secure its
access to the North Sea.
Denmark controls, with Sweden, Atlantic access from the Baltic..
Russian ocean access is very constrained. In the south there is the Crimean gap from the sea of Azov to the Black sea, then the Bosporus controlled by Turkey, to get into the Mediterranean and then the UK controlled straits of Gibraltar to get to the Atlantic.
In the East it has Vladivostok to give Pacific access, but there are
3000 miles of Great Russian Bugger All between that and Moscow. And one railway line.
The only other ports are Arctic ocean and none of them are ice free in winter.
All of these are available if you play nice with your neighbours. All of them are closed doors if you do not.
On 12/1/25 03:40, Paul wrote:
The whole (never ending) process is a can of worms.
I can believe it.
Denmark is a special case too ... small, but also
a bit close to Russia/Kaliningrad for comfort too.
If Russia goes after Finland/Sweden it might seize
some of those little islands between, secure its
access to the North Sea.
So far nobody admits to having a fully automated
fighter-drone that meets/exceeds human performance.
They'll come, soon. A big issue is that the AI
cannot be made small enough, an online link with
a bigger brain would be needed - and jammable.
Neural-network based AI might fit, but the
hardware needed to make it efficient still
isn't quite there.
IMHO, if we get that far, the militaries of 2040
will be ten drones to one human ... and most of
the humans will stay in the rear. Human troops
are still needed to occupy/hold territory though
so the foot soldier isn't quite done unless
occupation goes out of style.
So far nobody admits to having a fully automated
fighter-drone that meets/exceeds human performance.
They'll come, soon. A big issue is that the AI
cannot be made small enough, an online link with
a bigger brain would be needed - and jammable.
Neural-network based AI might fit, but the
hardware needed to make it efficient still
isn't quite there.
On 12/1/25 05:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/12/2025 09:50, c186282 wrote:
Denmark is a special case too ... small, but also
a bit close to Russia/Kaliningrad for comfort too.
If Russia goes after Finland/Sweden it might seize
some of those little islands between, secure its
access to the North Sea.
Denmark controls, with Sweden, Atlantic access from the Baltic..
Russian ocean access is very constrained. In the south there is the
Crimean gap from the sea of Azov to the Black sea, then the Bosporus
controlled by Turkey, to get into the Mediterranean and then the UK
controlled straits of Gibraltar to get to the Atlantic.
In the East it has Vladivostok to give Pacific access, but there are
3000 miles of Great Russian Bugger All between that and Moscow. And
one railway line.
The only other ports are Arctic ocean and none of them are ice free in
winter.
All of these are available if you play nice with your neighbours. All
of them are closed doors if you do not.
Unless you blast down the door ....
On 1/12/2025 8:50 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 12/1/25 03:40, Paul wrote:
<Snip>
Is this why Donald wants Greenland??The whole (never ending) process is a can of worms.
I can believe it.
Denmark is a special case too ... small, but also
a bit close to Russia/Kaliningrad for comfort too.
If Russia goes after Finland/Sweden it might seize
some of those little islands between, secure its
access to the North Sea.
So far nobody admits to having a fully automated
fighter-drone that meets/exceeds human performance.
They'll come, soon. A big issue is that the AI
cannot be made small enough, an online link with
a bigger brain would be needed - and jammable.
Neural-network based AI might fit, but the
hardware needed to make it efficient still
isn't quite there.
Who needs an F35?
On 2025-12-01, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Who needs an F35?
Lockheed Martin and the politicians they own.
On 30/11/2025 18:59, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 30 Nov 2025 10:31:22 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 30/11/2025 02:47, c186282 wrote:
Now imagine if some World Committee had decided
and enforced *a* programming lang in 1954, *a*
data-exchange format, *a* connection buss !!!
God help us.
I never did figure out how to use A Programming Language (APL). Then
there was Programming Language One. Nobody ever accused IBM of
humility.
Well there was APL and PL/1 and Algol., BCPL, B and then C.
A continuously developed stream.
Ideas that worked, stayed. Needed bits were added. really shit ideas
were removed.
On 01/12/2025 02:55, c186282 wrote:
And that's the thing ... too tight/powerful a 'standard'
too early on and you undermine 'evolution'.
You hit on something there., The top down standards creators are 'creationists'
The engineers who fiddle till it workls better and then draw up a paper
to say how it works, are Darwinian.
We used APL in High School, and, without instruction.
It really helps if you have a Selectric typewriter for I/O, with the
Greek character set type ball. That makes all the difference. You have pin-feed line printer paper, a box of it behind the Selectric, and you
can print out long lines of source, with authentic Rho and Iota
characters.
On 30/11/2025 19:53, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 30 Nov 2025 10:22:29 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I bought an unlocked samsung but it didn't have the same firmware as
the one from my supplier that allowed wifi calling, so I took it
back...
No problem with WiFi calling on mine although there is a toggle to
allow it. I should research how that works for incoming calls.
Extremely well. When I bought mine I was living in the bottom of a
valley with no signal for TV or radio and absolutely no mobile.
Connected up to the not especially good broadband the phone worked
normally.
On 01/12/2025 11:19, Daniel70 wrote:
On 1/12/2025 8:50 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 12/1/25 03:40, Paul wrote:
<Snip>
Is this why Donald wants Greenland??The whole (never ending) process is a can of worms.
I can believe it.
Denmark is a special case too ... small, but also a bit close to
Russia/Kaliningrad for comfort too.
If Russia goes after Finland/Sweden it might seize some of those
little islands between, secure its access to the North Sea.
No. He wants it because its stuffed full of minerals. Under a mile of
ice. At sub zero temperatures.
Which he didn't understand the implications of.
But aviation is changing, We don't want humans in the cockpit,. Too vulnerable and expensive. It will be operators with headsets at base
running swarms of AI enabled drones.
I've had no need to call 911, the equivalent to 999 or whatever the UK emergency system uses but that would also be interesting.
I think it is in one of Ernest Gann's books where he talks about the transport pilots in WWII. Without GPS all the fjords look about the same
and if you picked the wrong one you were royally screwed.
The US sort of annexed Greenland during WWII when Denmark was occupied. Apparently the Greenlanders preferred that option to Canada or the UK. The cryolite mine was a point of interest at that time but that's been shut
down.
I've had no need to call 911, the equivalent to 999 or whatever the UK emergency system uses but that would also be interesting.
On 1/12/2025 8:50 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 12/1/25 03:40, Paul wrote:
<Snip>
Is this why Donald wants Greenland??The whole (never ending) process is a can of worms.
I can believe it.
Denmark is a special case too ... small, but also
a bit close to Russia/Kaliningrad for comfort too.
If Russia goes after Finland/Sweden it might seize
some of those little islands between, secure its
access to the North Sea.
But aviation is changing, We don't want humans in the cockpit,. Too
vulnerable and expensive. It will be operators with headsets at base
running swarms of AI enabled drones.
The human has been sort of optional for some time. Even the Gripen is a fly-by-wire design that's too unstable for an unaided human pilot to fly.
The US sort of annexed Greenland during WWII when Denmark was occupied.
Apparently the Greenlanders preferred that option to Canada or the UK. The >> cryolite mine was a point of interest at that time but that's been shut
down.
Nothing was annexed. The US leased the land for bases first, then radar stations.
On 1/12/2025 9:55 pm, c186282 wrote:
<Snip>
So far nobody admits to having a fully automatedShades of Arnold and 'Terminator'!! ;-)
fighter-drone that meets/exceeds human performance.
They'll come, soon. A big issue is that the AI
cannot be made small enough, an online link with
a bigger brain would be needed - and jammable.
Neural-network based AI might fit, but the
hardware needed to make it efficient still
isn't quite there.
On 01/12/2025 10:55, c186282 wrote:
IMHO, if we get that far, the militaries of 2040Well that calls into question what the war is about. Some of it is about territory. Some is about genocidal violence on people you hate., Lotta
will be ten drones to one human ... and most of
the humans will stay in the rear. Human troops
are still needed to occupy/hold territory though
so the foot soldier isn't quite done unless
occupation goes out of style.
hate around these days.
So far nobody admits to having a fully automated
fighter-drone that meets/exceeds human performance.
They'll come, soon. A big issue is that the AI
cannot be made small enough, an online link with
a bigger brain would be needed - and jammable.
Neural-network based AI might fit, but the
hardware needed to make it efficient still
isn't quite there.
I think enough AI can be made very small,. It all started with the
proximity fuse.
On 01/12/2025 10:57, c186282 wrote:
On 12/1/25 05:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:But people really don't *like* that...
On 01/12/2025 09:50, c186282 wrote:
Denmark is a special case too ... small, but also
a bit close to Russia/Kaliningrad for comfort too.
If Russia goes after Finland/Sweden it might seize
some of those little islands between, secure its
access to the North Sea.
Denmark controls, with Sweden, Atlantic access from the Baltic..
Russian ocean access is very constrained. In the south there is the
Crimean gap from the sea of Azov to the Black sea, then the Bosporus
controlled by Turkey, to get into the Mediterranean and then the UK
controlled straits of Gibraltar to get to the Atlantic.
In the East it has Vladivostok to give Pacific access, but there are
3000 miles of Great Russian Bugger All between that and Moscow. And
one railway line.
The only other ports are Arctic ocean and none of them are ice free
in winter.
All of these are available if you play nice with your neighbours. All
of them are closed doors if you do not.
Unless you blast down the door ....
On 01/12/2025 11:19, Daniel70 wrote:
On 1/12/2025 8:50 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 12/1/25 03:40, Paul wrote:
<Snip>
Is this why Donald wants Greenland??The whole (never ending) process is a can of worms.
I can believe it.
Denmark is a special case too ... small, but also
a bit close to Russia/Kaliningrad for comfort too.
If Russia goes after Finland/Sweden it might seize
some of those little islands between, secure its
access to the North Sea.
No. He wants it because its stuffed full of minerals. Under a mile of
ice. At sub zero temperatures.
Which he didn't understand the implications of.
On Sun, 30 Nov 2025 19:50:20 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 30/11/2025 18:59, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 30 Nov 2025 10:31:22 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 30/11/2025 02:47, c186282 wrote:
Now imagine if some World Committee had decided
and enforced *a* programming lang in 1954, *a*
data-exchange format, *a* connection buss !!!
God help us.
I never did figure out how to use A Programming Language (APL). Then
there was Programming Language One. Nobody ever accused IBM of
humility.
Well there was APL and PL/1 and Algol., BCPL, B and then C.
A continuously developed stream.
Ideas that worked, stayed. Needed bits were added. really shit ideas
were removed.
My point was PL/I was designed to be the one language to rule them all, replacing FORTRAN and COBOL with a multipurpose language that would be all anyone could want. The ECMA was involved with the usual committee cluster fucks. Meanwhile C was being brewed up by a couple of guys.
I think PL/I is still extant although I haven't looked at it since the
early '70s.
On Mon, 1 Dec 2025 11:33:37 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/12/2025 11:19, Daniel70 wrote:
On 1/12/2025 8:50 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 12/1/25 03:40, Paul wrote:
<Snip>
Is this why Donald wants Greenland??The whole (never ending) process is a can of worms.
I can believe it.
Denmark is a special case too ... small, but also a bit close to >>>> Russia/Kaliningrad for comfort too.
If Russia goes after Finland/Sweden it might seize some of those >>>> little islands between, secure its access to the North Sea.
No. He wants it because its stuffed full of minerals. Under a mile of
ice. At sub zero temperatures.
Which he didn't understand the implications of.
Control of the Arctic with both the Russians and Chinese eyeing it is more likely. There are easier places mine for resources.
On 2025-12-01, rbowman wrote:
I've had no need to call 911, the equivalent to 999 or whatever the UK
emergency system uses but that would also be interesting.
At least for calls over GSM (the point here being that I don't know
whether "wifi calling" will still honor this), I think you're supposed
to be able to just dial 112, no matter where you are.
On 12/1/25 06:19, Daniel70 wrote:
On 1/12/2025 8:50 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 12/1/25 03:40, Paul wrote:
<Snip>
Is this why Donald wants Greenland??The whole (never ending) process is a can of worms.
I can believe it.
Denmark is a special case too ... small, but also a bit close to
Russia/Kaliningrad for comfort too.
If Russia goes after Finland/Sweden it might seize some of those
little islands between, secure its access to the North Sea.
Nah ... rare earths.
On 01/12/2025 21:25, rbowman wrote:
I think it is in one of Ernest Gann's books where he talks about theYes. Fate is the Hunter.
transport pilots in WWII. Without GPS all the fjords look about the
same and if you picked the wrong one you were royally screwed.
The US sort of annexed Greenland during WWII when Denmark was occupied.
Apparently the Greenlanders preferred that option to Canada or the UK.
The cryolite mine was a point of interest at that time but that's been
shut down.
Nothing was annexed. The US leased the land for bases first, then radar stations.
He shepherded the development of two legendary - but very different - fighters: The F16 and the A10. And the "establishment" hated him, which
is why he never rose above Colonel.
On 12/1/25 06:27, Daniel70 wrote:
On 1/12/2025 9:55 pm, c186282 wrote:
<Snip>
So far nobody admits to having a fully automatedShades of Arnold and 'Terminator'!! ;-)
fighter-drone that meets/exceeds human performance.
They'll come, soon. A big issue is that the AI
cannot be made small enough, an online link with
a bigger brain would be needed - and jammable.
Neural-network based AI might fit, but the
hardware needed to make it efficient still
isn't quite there.
As I reported in some other groups, even James Cameron
is now voicing concerns that he produced prophecy, not
mere fiction :-)
NNs have at least equal potential to LLMs, but would
not need a zillion NVidia chips doing, under the hood,
lots of conventional computing. However they really
need neuron-ish hardware which is not all there yet.
They ARE working on it though, it's getting better
all the time. No doubt they've put LLMs onto the
job at this point ...
In theory, such native NNs could be much more compact
than any LLM approach ... autonomous "Terminators"
thus become possible.
I still think there's some kind of weird "self-
reflection"/"hall of mirrors" thing to proper
'self'. Watch the world, watch yourself in the
world, observe responses. The LLMs are sort of
getting this now ... some of their training
material will be news and such ABOUT LLMs in
various contexts. They can now "see themselves"
and are beginning to SHOW it.
Some months ago there were news blurbs about
I think OpenAI, at its own initiative, finding
and sabotaging the software routines used to
shut it down. That IS a kind of "self", "self
awareness" and "survival instinct". Not exactly
"human", but these things aren't human - more
like 'aliens'.
Anyway, military, envision hover-drones with a
dozen guns that NEVER miss ... the calx for
a perfect hit would be EASY. 1000 bullets,
1000 dead 'enemy'. If such machines do not
yet exist they WILL, very very soon.
But who, or what, sets the goals ?
On 2025-12-01, rbowman wrote:
I've had no need to call 911, the equivalent to 999 or whatever the UK
emergency system uses but that would also be interesting.
At least for calls over GSM (the point here being that I don't know
whether "wifi calling" will still honor this), I think you're supposed
to be able to just dial 112, no matter where you are.
On 12/1/25 06:19, Daniel70 wrote:
On 1/12/2025 8:50 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 12/1/25 03:40, Paul wrote:
<Snip>
Is this why Donald wants Greenland??The whole (never ending) process is a can of worms.
I can believe it.
Denmark is a special case too ... small, but also
a bit close to Russia/Kaliningrad for comfort too.
If Russia goes after Finland/Sweden it might seize
some of those little islands between, secure its
access to the North Sea.
Nah ... rare earths.
Strange twist: Greenland has a high suicide rate, which might be expected, but it peaks in the summer months. I don't know the exact timing. Maybe towards the end of daylight people figure they can't do another winter.
Anyway, military, envision hover-drones with a
dozen guns that NEVER miss ... the calx for
a perfect hit would be EASY. 1000 bullets,
1000 dead 'enemy'. If such machines do not
yet exist they WILL, very very soon.
But who, or what, sets the goals ?
If a metal-dude fires
a gun in the wrong direction, it's too late to
give corrective instructions.
But people really don't *like* that...
All of these are available if you play nice with your neighbours.
All of them are closed doors if you do not.
Unless you blast down the door ....
Awww ... tuff titty !
On 12/1/25 06:33, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/12/2025 11:19, Daniel70 wrote:
On 1/12/2025 8:50 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 12/1/25 03:40, Paul wrote:
<Snip>
Is this why Donald wants Greenland??The whole (never ending) process is a can of worms.
I can believe it.
Denmark is a special case too ... small, but also
a bit close to Russia/Kaliningrad for comfort too.
If Russia goes after Finland/Sweden it might seize
some of those little islands between, secure its
access to the North Sea.
No. He wants it because its stuffed full of minerals. Under a mile of
ice. At sub zero temperatures.
Which he didn't understand the implications of.
He's not a 'scientist' - a 'businessman' instead.
'Scientists' rarely play a big role in national
policy.
Anyway, the rare earths ARE there in abundance
and Trump - and many others - WANT them all.
On 02/12/2025 00:17, Nuno Silva wrote:
On 2025-12-01, rbowman wrote:Oh you can. My point is that where does that indicate you actually are?
I've had no need to call 911, the equivalent to 999 or whatever the UK
emergency system uses but that would also be interesting.
At least for calls over GSM (the point here being that I don't know
whether "wifi calling" will still honor this), I think you're supposed
to be able to just dial 112, no matter where you are.
On landline and VOIP 999 goes to a regional emergency centre.
And they can see what address you are (allegedly) at from the number etc.
On 2025-12-02 11:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/12/2025 00:17, Nuno Silva wrote:
On 2025-12-01, rbowman wrote:Oh you can. My point is that where does that indicate you actually are?
I've had no need to call 911, the equivalent to 999 or whatever the UK >>>> emergency system uses but that would also be interesting.
At least for calls over GSM (the point here being that I don't know
whether "wifi calling" will still honor this), I think you're supposed
to be able to just dial 112, no matter where you are.
On landline and VOIP 999 goes to a regional emergency centre.
They get the location from the call ID number.
On Tue, 12/2/2025 8:41 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-02 11:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/12/2025 00:17, Nuno Silva wrote:
On 2025-12-01, rbowman wrote:Oh you can. My point is that where does that indicate you actually are?
I've had no need to call 911, the equivalent to 999 or whatever the UK >>>>> emergency system uses but that would also be interesting.
At least for calls over GSM (the point here being that I don't know
whether "wifi calling" will still honor this), I think you're supposed >>>> to be able to just dial 112, no matter where you are.
On landline and VOIP 999 goes to a regional emergency centre.
They get the location from the call ID number.
When you arrange your comms, the supplier will sometimes
list on their site, whether they have "e911" configured.
For example, my VOIP has that configured.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_911
The article tells us, there is an "e112" as well.
But you don't really know whether it works. Even if you
were to test it today, it might not be working next week.
If we did not regularly test gravity, gravity might
stop working :-/
The whole phone network is like that. At my hospital for
example, when they tried to phone me, they were getting
"this number is not in service...". I actually drove down
to the hospital, went to reception, made an outside call
at the reception desk, and I got to verify that
"this number is not in service..." is exactly the symptom.
It took contacting the hospital ombudsman and complaining
about this, to get it fixed at the hospital end. They
have a separate provider for "number lookup" and something
was broken in that and got fixed. I had to provide them
with three identifiers from my ISP, to push this process
forward (there is more to a phone number than just
a phone number).
On 02/12/2025 06:56, Paul wrote:
If a metal-dude fires
a gun in the wrong direction, it's too late to
give corrective instructions.
That's why for now its largely hybrid: Teh AI does not have full
autonomy. Only limited flexibility within its human given target
parameters.
Heck plenty of friendly fire incidents with hum,ans operating -
especially Americans
"If its a German Plane,m the British duck If its a British plane the
Germans duck, but if its an American plane *everybody* ducks..."
On 12/1/25 06:30, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/12/2025 10:55, c186282 wrote:
So, 25 years from now, 'AI's of many kinds wired
into EVERYTHING, basically running every aspect
of the world. Good ? Bad ? VERY bad ? We don't
know but ARE running at full speed towards it
because somebody is SURE they'll make a buck.
I'll be way too old to care by then, but BILLIONS
of people will be right in the middle of it.
Previous tech transformed one kind of "people
jobs" into another kind of "people jobs". "AI"
*exterminates* 'people jobs' - no future 4 you.
What becomes of all the obsoleted people ???
Tax biz ? HELL NO ! Their lobbyists will nuke
any such plans !
The war angle is bad - but these other impacts
may be far WORSE.
On 2025-12-02 12:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/12/2025 06:56, Paul wrote:
If a metal-dude fires
a gun in the wrong direction, it's too late to
give corrective instructions.
That's why for now its largely hybrid: Teh AI does not have full
autonomy. Only limited flexibility within its human given target
parameters.
Heck plenty of friendly fire incidents with hum,ans operating -
especially Americans
"If its a German Plane,m the British duck If its a British plane the
Germans duck, but if its an American plane *everybody* ducks..."
Heh.
I remember, in the 80's, a WWI air fight simulator. I was going in a
circle trying to shoot the enemy, and a dumb friendly suddenly got in my circle ahead of me, to be shot down by me. Then I get remonstrated for killing several of my colleagues, so at some point I flew solo and still won. Infinite bullets and gasoline was part of the thing, IIRC :-D
I'll be way too old to care by then, but BILLIONS
of people will be right in the middle of it.
Previous tech transformed one kind of "people
jobs" into another kind of "people jobs". "AI"
*exterminates* 'people jobs' - no future 4 you.
What becomes of all the obsoleted people ???
Tax biz ? HELL NO ! Their lobbyists will nuke
any such plans !
The war angle is bad - but these other impacts
may be far WORSE.
Indeed.
On Mon, 12/1/2025 10:09 PM, c186282 wrote:
On 12/1/25 06:27, Daniel70 wrote:
On 1/12/2025 9:55 pm, c186282 wrote:
<Snip>
So far nobody admits to having a fully automatedShades of Arnold and 'Terminator'!! ;-)
fighter-drone that meets/exceeds human performance.
They'll come, soon. A big issue is that the AI
cannot be made small enough, an online link with
a bigger brain would be needed - and jammable.
Neural-network based AI might fit, but the
hardware needed to make it efficient still
isn't quite there.
As I reported in some other groups, even James Cameron
is now voicing concerns that he produced prophecy, not
mere fiction :-)
NNs have at least equal potential to LLMs, but would
not need a zillion NVidia chips doing, under the hood,
lots of conventional computing. However they really
need neuron-ish hardware which is not all there yet.
They ARE working on it though, it's getting better
all the time. No doubt they've put LLMs onto the
job at this point ...
In theory, such native NNs could be much more compact
than any LLM approach ... autonomous "Terminators"
thus become possible.
I still think there's some kind of weird "self-
reflection"/"hall of mirrors" thing to proper
'self'. Watch the world, watch yourself in the
world, observe responses. The LLMs are sort of
getting this now ... some of their training
material will be news and such ABOUT LLMs in
various contexts. They can now "see themselves"
and are beginning to SHOW it.
Some months ago there were news blurbs about
I think OpenAI, at its own initiative, finding
and sabotaging the software routines used to
shut it down. That IS a kind of "self", "self
awareness" and "survival instinct". Not exactly
"human", but these things aren't human - more
like 'aliens'.
Anyway, military, envision hover-drones with a
dozen guns that NEVER miss ... the calx for
a perfect hit would be EASY. 1000 bullets,
1000 dead 'enemy'. If such machines do not
yet exist they WILL, very very soon.
But who, or what, sets the goals ?
The current LLM-AI are non-deterministic, if you
give them a gun, they are just as likely to shoot
you as to shoot some opponent.
A gun toting metal-dude, can't reliably avoid
shooting you 20% of the time. It has to avoid
shooting you 100% of the time. Like, if you didn't
give it instructions "be careful of firing angles
that cause ricochet towards me", then the thing
would use its automatic weapon at inopportune
angles and completely spoil your day.
You notice some of these trends, when you ask an
AI to write a computer program. Yes, it writes the
program. But it does not worry about a myriad of
tiny "issues" with aspects of the program. Sure,
you the human, can note the failings and say
things like "and don't use any subroutines that
have known bugs", but by then it's too late
if a gun was being carried. If a metal-dude fires
a gun in the wrong direction, it's too late to
give corrective instructions.
On 02/12/2025 00:17, Nuno Silva wrote:
On 2025-12-01, rbowman wrote:Oh you can. My point is that where does that indicate you actually are?
I've had no need to call 911, the equivalent to 999 or whatever the UK
emergency system uses but that would also be interesting.
At least for calls over GSM (the point here being that I don't know
whether "wifi calling" will still honor this), I think you're supposed
to be able to just dial 112, no matter where you are.
On landline and VOIP 999 goes to a regional emergency centre.
And they can see what address you are (allegedly) at from the number etc.
On 02/12/2025 02:41, c186282 wrote:
On 12/1/25 06:19, Daniel70 wrote:Miles of bleeding ice.
On 1/12/2025 8:50 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 12/1/25 03:40, Paul wrote:
<Snip>
Is this why Donald wants Greenland??The whole (never ending) process is a can of worms.
I can believe it.
Denmark is a special case too ... small, but also
a bit close to Russia/Kaliningrad for comfort too.
If Russia goes after Finland/Sweden it might seize
some of those little islands between, secure its
access to the North Sea.
Nah ... rare earths.
On 02/12/2025 05:50, rbowman wrote:
Strange twist: Greenland has a high suicide rate, which might be
expected,
but it peaks in the summer months. I don't know the exact timing. Maybe
towards the end of daylight people figure they can't do another winter.
I know the feeling...
On 02/12/2025 06:56, Paul wrote:
If a metal-dude fires
a gun in the wrong direction, it's too late to
give corrective instructions.
That's why for now its largely hybrid: Teh AI does not have full
autonomy. Only limited flexibility within its human given target
parameters.
Heck plenty of friendly fire incidents with hum,ans operating -
especially Americans
"If its a German Plane,m the British duck If its a British plane the
Germans duck, but if its an American plane *everybody* ducks..."
On 02/12/2025 03:47, c186282 wrote:
But people really don't *like* that...
All of these are available if you play nice with your neighbours.
All of them are closed doors if you do not.
Unless you blast down the door ....
Awww ... tuff titty !
You entirely miss the point.
British sarcasm...
If you want to conquer the world and hold it by force against the wishes
of its populations, good luck with that.
I refer you to Afghanistan. I refer you to Russia, the so called
superpower with no friends whatsoever - apart from Donald Trump.
But would the USA population allow him to send US troops to fight
against Ukraine and Europe on Russia's side?
People really wouldn't *like* that..
On 02/12/2025 03:49, c186282 wrote:
On 12/1/25 06:33, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/12/2025 11:19, Daniel70 wrote:
On 1/12/2025 8:50 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 12/1/25 03:40, Paul wrote:
<Snip>
Is this why Donald wants Greenland??The whole (never ending) process is a can of worms.
I can believe it.
Denmark is a special case too ... small, but also
a bit close to Russia/Kaliningrad for comfort too.
If Russia goes after Finland/Sweden it might seize
some of those little islands between, secure its
access to the North Sea.
No. He wants it because its stuffed full of minerals. Under a mile of
ice. At sub zero temperatures.
Which he didn't understand the implications of.
He's not a 'scientist' - a 'businessman' instead.
'Scientists' rarely play a big role in national
policy.
If you think Trump is a businessman, I feel for you.
His 'businesses' are the 'start with a million and end up with a
thousand' sort of success stories.
He's just a grubby little shyster Thick as two short planks and twice as wide.
("Wide person" is not a standard English term. It most likely refers to
the British slang term "wide boy," which means a shrewd, cunning, and
often dishonest man who lives by his wits, particularly through shady dealings or petty crime. The term "wide" in this context implies being "wide-awake" or sharp. )
Anyway, the rare earths ARE there in abundance
and Trump - and many others - WANT them all.
Rare earths are not especially rare.
I worked at the troubleshooting room and the network control room of two telephone companies. At one of them they tried a list of emergency
numbers, like 112, every day, to verify they were working.
At that time, a telco that would not support 112 calls could not be
called a telco, broke the licensing deal.
On 02/12/2025 20:40, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I'll be way too old to care by then, but BILLIONS
of people will be right in the middle of it.
Previous tech transformed one kind of "people
jobs" into another kind of "people jobs". "AI"
*exterminates* 'people jobs' - no future 4 you.
What becomes of all the obsoleted people ???
Tax biz ? HELL NO ! Their lobbyists will nuke
any such plans !
The war angle is bad - but these other impacts
may be far WORSE.
Indeed.
The problem is that you cant become rich if there is no one left to sell
to.
On 12/2/25 05:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/12/2025 02:41, c186282 wrote:
On 12/1/25 06:19, Daniel70 wrote:Miles of bleeding ice.
On 1/12/2025 8:50 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 12/1/25 03:40, Paul wrote:
<Snip>
Is this why Donald wants Greenland??The whole (never ending) process is a can of worms.
I can believe it.
Denmark is a special case too ... small, but also
a bit close to Russia/Kaliningrad for comfort too.
If Russia goes after Finland/Sweden it might seize
some of those little islands between, secure its
access to the North Sea.
Nah ... rare earths.
They don't care - the REWARD is still more
than adequate.
And they'll START at the edges of the ice
and then excavate inwards. Big boom, cart
off the rocks.
On 12/2/25 05:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/12/2025 05:50, rbowman wrote:
Strange twist: Greenland has a high suicide rate, which might be
expected,
but it peaks in the summer months. I don't know the exact timing. Maybe
towards the end of daylight people figure they can't do another winter.
I know the feeling...
Move to Havana.
On 12/2/25 06:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/12/2025 06:56, Paul wrote:
If a metal-dude fires
a gun in the wrong direction, it's too late to
give corrective instructions.
That's why for now its largely hybrid: Teh AI does not have full
autonomy. Only limited flexibility within its human given target
parameters.
"For now" ...
But several giant corps plan to 100x the
brainpower VERY quick. Five years it will
be 1000x.
Heck plenty of friendly fire incidents with hum,ans operating -
especially Americans
"If its a German Plane,m the British duck If its a British plane the
Germans duck, but if its an American plane *everybody* ducks..."
Heh heh ... yea, Americans do tend to stride
with seven-league boots :-)
On 12/2/25 06:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/12/2025 03:49, c186282 wrote:
On 12/1/25 06:33, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/12/2025 11:19, Daniel70 wrote:
On 1/12/2025 8:50 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 12/1/25 03:40, Paul wrote:
<Snip>
Is this why Donald wants Greenland??The whole (never ending) process is a can of worms.
I can believe it.
Denmark is a special case too ... small, but also
a bit close to Russia/Kaliningrad for comfort too.
If Russia goes after Finland/Sweden it might seize
some of those little islands between, secure its
access to the North Sea.
No. He wants it because its stuffed full of minerals. Under a mile
of ice. At sub zero temperatures.
Which he didn't understand the implications of.
He's not a 'scientist' - a 'businessman' instead.
'Scientists' rarely play a big role in national
policy.
If you think Trump is a businessman, I feel for you.
His 'businesses' are the 'start with a million and end up with a
thousand' sort of success stories.
Yet he's worth billions.
Something a bit off about your analysis.
He's just a grubby little shyster Thick as two short planks and twice
as wide.
("Wide person" is not a standard English term. It most likely refers
to the British slang term "wide boy," which means a shrewd, cunning,
and often dishonest man who lives by his wits, particularly through
shady dealings or petty crime. The term "wide" in this context implies
being "wide-awake" or sharp. )
Anyway, the rare earths ARE there in abundance
and Trump - and many others - WANT them all.
Rare earths are not especially rare.
But LOCATION is important.
Reportedly Trump has boosted a big factory
on US soil to be dedicated to extracting
and refining rare earths. At present, only
China has large facilities like that. The
US facility is expected to come online
sometime in 2026.
Alas INSIDE the USA, if you want to mine for
the stuff pinhead 'activists' scream about
some fuzzy caterpillar and throw themselves
in front of the machines. Won't happen in
Greenland.
Hmm ... a few weeks back I found some US
startup making magnets about 92% as strong
as neo magnets - but used no rare earths
and were chemically stable. Some funky new
iron/nitrogen mix instead. I'll see if I
can find the data again. However magnets are
hardly the alpha and omega of rare earths.
Ah, try :
https://www.nironmagnetics.com/
On 12/2/25 15:46, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/12/2025 20:40, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I'll be way too old to care by then, but BILLIONS
of people will be right in the middle of it.
Previous tech transformed one kind of "people
jobs" into another kind of "people jobs". "AI"
*exterminates* 'people jobs' - no future 4 you.
What becomes of all the obsoleted people ???
Tax biz ? HELL NO ! Their lobbyists will nuke
any such plans !
The war angle is bad - but these other impacts
may be far WORSE.
Indeed.
The problem is that you cant become rich if there is no one left to
sell to.
That's the oft-forgotten part of this equation.
Biz want to make more by getting rid of most
of their expensive humans ... but once many
are doing that then you get a fast-growing
blob of people who cannot afford to buy
Product-X.
This MAY be a "Can't get there from here"
economic disaster, now in-progress. IMHO
the biz environment will implode due to
lack of revenues well before some sort
of Robotopia can take shape and everyone
can spend all day sunning themselves by
the pool.
Problem #2 ... biz/industry can't be RE-started so
easily. Everything would have to be "re-humanized"
and that would be very difficult. Also some critical
skills may have just faded away in the interim period.
On 12/2/25 05:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/12/2025 00:17, Nuno Silva wrote:
On 2025-12-01, rbowman wrote:Oh you can. My point is that where does that indicate you actually are?
I've had no need to call 911, the equivalent to 999 or whatever the UK >>>> emergency system uses but that would also be interesting.
At least for calls over GSM (the point here being that I don't know
whether "wifi calling" will still honor this), I think you're supposed
to be able to just dial 112, no matter where you are.
On landline and VOIP 999 goes to a regional emergency centre.
And they can see what address you are (allegedly) at from the number etc.
USA ... 911 from a landline shows name and location.
From a cell it delivers GPS coords - probably even
if you think you switched off GPS.
He shepherded the development of two legendary - but very different -
fighters: The F16 and the A10. And the "establishment" hated him, which
is why he never rose above Colonel.
They worked too well. During one of the UM football games a Warthog did a flyby, leaving Gen X, Y, and Z puzzled. The F35 was supposed to be the replacement but the USAF seems to be reluctant to part with something that works. They might have learned something from the USMC.
On Mon, 1 Dec 2025 21:41:35 -0500, c186282 wrote:
On 12/1/25 06:19, Daniel70 wrote:
On 1/12/2025 8:50 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 12/1/25 03:40, Paul wrote:
<Snip>
Is this why Donald wants Greenland??The whole (never ending) process is a can of worms.
I can believe it.
Denmark is a special case too ... small, but also a bit close to >>>> Russia/Kaliningrad for comfort too.
If Russia goes after Finland/Sweden it might seize some of those >>>> little islands between, secure its access to the North Sea.
Nah ... rare earths.
If he's playing the long game. It might be a decade or two before they
have useful output. Lief Erikson was a hell of a real estate salesman but
the place has drawbacks.
Strange twist: Greenland has a high suicide rate, which might be expected, but it peaks in the summer months. I don't know the exact timing. Maybe towards the end of daylight people figure they can't do another winter.
On Mon, 1 Dec 2025 21:48:50 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/12/2025 21:25, rbowman wrote:
I think it is in one of Ernest Gann's books where he talks about theYes. Fate is the Hunter.
transport pilots in WWII. Without GPS all the fjords look about the
same and if you picked the wrong one you were royally screwed.
The US sort of annexed Greenland during WWII when Denmark was occupied.
Apparently the Greenlanders preferred that option to Canada or the UK.
The cryolite mine was a point of interest at that time but that's been
shut down.
Nothing was annexed. The US leased the land for bases first, then radar
stations.
Okay, a protectorate.
https://adst.org/2017/07/protecting-greenland-american-consulate- godthab-1940-42/
It was protected against the Brits, Canadians, and Norwegians. Probably a good deal for Greenland. Britain was planning to invade Norway but Germany got there first. Sweden was one of the few countries that managed to pull
off neutrality in that mess, although their neutrality had a German
accent.
Switzerland did their usual thing and shot at both sides and occasionally were bombed by both sides. That might have been case of 'Where the hell
is Switzerland? Oops. So sorry.'
For all practical purposes Greenland IS
a "US protectorate" already. We have lots
of military presence there and have for
quite awhile.
That's the oft-forgotten part of this equation.
Biz want to make more by getting rid of most of their expensive
humans ... but once many are doing that then you get a fast-growing
blob of people who cannot afford to buy Product-X.
a business has one objective, making money for the
shareholders.
On Wed, 3 Dec 2025 00:12:59 -0500, c186282 wrote:
That's the oft-forgotten part of this equation.
Biz want to make more by getting rid of most of their expensive
humans ... but once many are doing that then you get a fast-growing
blob of people who cannot afford to buy Product-X.
Henry Ford figured that out. Early on he paid his workers much better than the prevailing rates on the theory if they couldn't afford a Model T who
was going to buy them. However the suit by the Dodge brothers clarified
the issue -- a business has one objective, making money for the shareholders.
Both Ford and Edison had a low opinion of the money men.--
Did you mean "a business *had*"? Isn't this ("shareholder primacy")
pretty much of a misconception these days, except for a small number of jurisdictions?
On 2025-12-03, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 3 Dec 2025 00:12:59 -0500, c186282 wrote:
That's the oft-forgotten part of this equation.
Biz want to make more by getting rid of most of their expensive
humans ... but once many are doing that then you get a fast-growing
blob of people who cannot afford to buy Product-X.
Henry Ford figured that out. Early on he paid his workers much better than >> the prevailing rates on the theory if they couldn't afford a Model T who
was going to buy them. However the suit by the Dodge brothers clarified
the issue -- a business has one objective, making money for the
shareholders.
Did you mean "a business *had*"? Isn't this ("shareholder primacy")
pretty much of a misconception these days, except for a small number of jurisdictions?
Both Ford and Edison had a low opinion of the money men.
On 03/12/2025 01:32, c186282 wrote:
On 12/2/25 05:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Never thought of that.
On 02/12/2025 05:50, rbowman wrote:
Strange twist: Greenland has a high suicide rate, which might beI know the feeling...
expected,
but it peaks in the summer months. I don't know the exact timing. Maybe >>>> towards the end of daylight people figure they can't do another winter. >>>
Move to Havana.
As far as people and scenery goes, I'd head for somewhere like Utah, but
I cant afford the medical insurance.
And I am not sure they like atheists..
On 03/12/2025 02:14, c186282 wrote:
On 12/2/25 06:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/12/2025 03:49, c186282 wrote:
On 12/1/25 06:33, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/12/2025 11:19, Daniel70 wrote:
On 1/12/2025 8:50 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 12/1/25 03:40, Paul wrote:
<Snip>
Is this why Donald wants Greenland??The whole (never ending) process is a can of worms.
I can believe it.
Denmark is a special case too ... small, but also
a bit close to Russia/Kaliningrad for comfort too.
If Russia goes after Finland/Sweden it might seize
some of those little islands between, secure its
access to the North Sea.
No. He wants it because its stuffed full of minerals. Under a mile
of ice. At sub zero temperatures.
Which he didn't understand the implications of.
He's not a 'scientist' - a 'businessman' instead.
'Scientists' rarely play a big role in national
policy.
If you think Trump is a businessman, I feel for you.
His 'businesses' are the 'start with a million and end up with a
thousand' sort of success stories.
Yet he's worth billions.
Something a bit off about your analysis.
Most of those billions are Russian oil money.
He's just a grubby little shyster Thick as two short planks and twice
as wide.
("Wide person" is not a standard English term. It most likely refers
to the British slang term "wide boy," which means a shrewd, cunning,
and often dishonest man who lives by his wits, particularly through
shady dealings or petty crime. The term "wide" in this context
implies being "wide-awake" or sharp. )
Anyway, the rare earths ARE there in abundance
and Trump - and many others - WANT them all.
Rare earths are not especially rare.
But LOCATION is important.
Reportedly Trump has boosted a big factory
on US soil to be dedicated to extracting
and refining rare earths. At present, only
China has large facilities like that. The
US facility is expected to come online
sometime in 2026.
Its worth doing.
Alas INSIDE the USA, if you want to mine forI wouldnt be too sure. The Doom Pixie is a Scandinavian mutation..
the stuff pinhead 'activists' scream about
some fuzzy caterpillar and throw themselves
in front of the machines. Won't happen in
Greenland.
Hmm ... a few weeks back I found some USThere is more than just raw magnetic fields. weight and Curie point
startup making magnets about 92% as strong
as neo magnets - but used no rare earths
and were chemically stable. Some funky new
iron/nitrogen mix instead. I'll see if I
can find the data again. However magnets are
hardly the alpha and omega of rare earths.
are important...
Ah, try :
https://www.nironmagnetics.com/
Spent a lot of money on a glossy website.
I wonder if the magnets are any good?
On 2025-12-03 02:29, c186282 wrote:
On 12/2/25 05:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/12/2025 00:17, Nuno Silva wrote:
On 2025-12-01, rbowman wrote:Oh you can. My point is that where does that indicate you actually are?
I've had no need to call 911, the equivalent to 999 or whatever the UK >>>>> emergency system uses but that would also be interesting.
At least for calls over GSM (the point here being that I don't know
whether "wifi calling" will still honor this), I think you're supposed >>>> to be able to just dial 112, no matter where you are.
On landline and VOIP 999 goes to a regional emergency centre.
And they can see what address you are (allegedly) at from the number
etc.
USA ... 911 from a landline shows name and location.
From a cell it delivers GPS coords - probably even
if you think you switched off GPS.
You can not switch off location by the Telco. They always know which tower(s) you are connected to and triangulate, quite accurately.
If the client disables geolocation, what it does is (probably) not have
the information locally, and in any case, refuse that information to applications.
Similarly, even if you hide your call ID, emergency services still get
your call ID.
What I do not know is if they can find the location from the Telco in
real time.
On 02/12/2025 09:57, c186282 wrote:
For all practical purposes Greenland ISSo does Germany.
a "US protectorate" already. We have lots
of military presence there and have for
quite awhile.
On Tue, 2 Dec 2025 21:13:05 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I worked at the troubleshooting room and the network control room of two
telephone companies. At one of them they tried a list of emergency
numbers, like 112, every day, to verify they were working.
At that time, a telco that would not support 112 calls could not be
called a telco, broke the licensing deal.
The fun begins with the ALI stream...
https://www.redskye911.com/glossary/ali-automatic-location-identification
I was lucky and another programmer handled that interface. The idea was we could use the ALI data to automatically create a Call For Service and pop
a screen that the calltaker could then fill in with additional information from the caller. The problem was there was no uniform specification for
how the data was presented and sometimes the same telco changed the
format. The interface application used a rather cryptic file to describe
the various formats so the address, latitude, longitude, or other info
could be parsed correctly. Job security for that programmer :)
To distinguish my test calls from real 911 calls, I would get the modem
to play a DTMF version of "Mary had a little lamb"; if the operator
heard this, he or she would know that it was a test call and could be disregarded. (A neighbour turned out to be a 911 operator - she knew
all about my little tune.)
Saw some TV doc awhile back ... the US tried to build an under-ice
base, even had its own little nuke reactor. Alas nobody told them
that ice is NEVER really solid like rock is,
and it all began to sink and sink and sink. Billions wasted.
"Quite" - but not perfectly. A few years back cops kept coming to my
house over 911 calls that I didn't make. Apparently it was the old
neighbor across the street, butt-dialing 911
Otherwise, kind of like late 50s Miami. Cuba
is frozen in time.
Note that Ford, despite wages, was STILL horribly afflicted by labor
unions. There were killings.
On Thu, 04 Dec 2025 00:10:10 +0000, Nuno Silva wrote:
Did you mean "a business *had*"? Isn't this ("shareholder primacy")
pretty much of a misconception these days, except for a small number of
jurisdictions?
How many corporate decisions are made with an eye to Wall Street and improving the stock price? How many disasters have there been recently
where a corporation decided social justice was their concern?
On the whole, shareholders just GO ALONG with whatever
management proposes. Shareholder fights make for good
movies, but it almost never happens.
Ordered a newer unit. It'd BETTER boot Linux or
it goes straight in the bin and HPs forever off
my list.
On Wed, 3 Dec 2025 21:38:02 -0500, c186282 wrote:
Note that Ford, despite wages, was STILL horribly afflicted by labor
unions. There were killings.
That was about 20 years later when there were real live Communists running around with Roosevelt's blessing.
Did you mean "a business *had*"? Isn't this ("shareholder primacy")
pretty much of a misconception these days, except for a small number
of jurisdictions?
On 04/12/2025 02:38, c186282 wrote:
On the whole, shareholders just GO ALONG with whatever
management proposes. Shareholder fights make for good movies, but
it almost never happens.
What shareholders do, is cash out.
You will see appalling crashes in share price, often followed by bounce
back if a new CEO is appointed.
Only major shareholders swinging billions can effectively fire the CEO.
On 04/12/2025 02:28, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 04 Dec 2025 00:10:10 +0000, Nuno Silva wrote:That depends entirely on the company and its state of being.
Did you mean "a business *had*"? Isn't this ("shareholder primacy")
pretty much of a misconception these days, except for a small number
of jurisdictions?
How many corporate decisions are made with an eye to Wall Street and
improving the stock price? How many disasters have there been recently
where a corporation decided social justice was their concern?
People who haven't been around listed boards do not really understand...
Today the prime example is of Boeing whose attempts to deliver profit
have resulted in a quality drop that is likely to put them out of
business.
Translation: screw the consumers that have been buying Crucial RAM;
thar's money in them thar AI hills!
If the AI balloon bursts, like it has a history of doing, there will
be a lot of people in deep shit. Unfortunately the general public
will be swimming around in the cesspool too.
I don't think the old model of dividends is the driving factor in a market based on pump and dump. That elementary school description of the stock market ain't how it works.
On Thu, 04 Dec 2025 00:10:10 +0000
Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Did you mean "a business *had*"? Isn't this ("shareholder primacy")
pretty much of a misconception these days, except for a small number
of jurisdictions?
In the US, anyway, the court decisions responsible for establishing the notion didn't even set it out as legally binding. Unfortunately, it's
been treated as if it *were* ever since, and has been running rampant
in American corporate culture for decades now, to absolutely disastrous effect. Ed Zitron has a pretty good writeup on how all that transpired:
https://www.wheresyoured.at/tss/
It's not "if," but "when" - and it's *not* gonna be pretty. Just the
other day I had to spend several hours trying to convince myself I had
*any* interest in stocks for long enough to get my 401(k) out of the
default "invest everything in the absolute biggest players on the
market" setting and into funds based around companies that actually
*make* things, which might at least stand a chance of not cratering...
On Thu, 4 Dec 2025 11:08:59 -0800, John Ames wrote:
It's not "if," but "when" - and it's *not* gonna be pretty. Just the
other day I had to spend several hours trying to convince myself I had
*any* interest in stocks for long enough to get my 401(k) out of the
default "invest everything in the absolute biggest players on the
market" setting and into funds based around companies that actually
*make* things, which might at least stand a chance of not cratering...
I never did 401K, just the yearly contribution to a standard IRA. Even
that was more for the tax deduction than anything else. I had friends who told me how I was missing out as they checked their portfolios hourly.
They all went radio silent after dotcom went boom.
When I was married we met with an honest Merrill Lynch salesman. He said
if we wouldn't be comfortable putting the money on a table in Vegas to
stay out of the market. We thanked him and took his advice. She had as
much interest as I in stocks, which is to say zero. Neither of us is
starving these days and don't have any family left so how much better we might have done is moot.
On 2025-12-01, rbowman wrote:
I've had no need to call 911, the equivalent to 999 or whatever the UK
emergency system uses but that would also be interesting.
At least for calls over GSM (the point here being that I don't know
whether "wifi calling" will still honor this), I think you're supposed
to be able to just dial 112, no matter where you are.
On 2/12/2025 11:17 am, Nuno Silva wrote:
On 2025-12-01, rbowman wrote:What's '112'??
I've had no need to call 911, the equivalent to 999 or whatever the UK
emergency system uses but that would also be interesting.
At least for calls over GSM (the point here being that I don't know
whether "wifi calling" will still honor this), I think you're supposed
to be able to just dial 112, no matter where you are.
(DuckDuckgo seems to think it is an American R&B group who are going 'on
the road' for a tour .... or, rather, they were going on the road.)
On 02/12/2025 03:47, c186282 wrote:
But people really don't *like* that...
All of these are available if you play nice with your neighbours.
All of them are closed doors if you do not.
Unless you blast down the door ....
Awww ... tuff titty !
You entirely miss the point.
British sarcasm...
If you want to conquer the world and hold it by force against the wishes
of its populations, good luck with that.
I refer you to Afghanistan. I refer you to Russia, the so called
superpower with no friends whatsoever - apart from Donald Trump.
But would the USA population allow him to send US troops to fight
against Ukraine and Europe on Russia's side?
People really wouldn't *like* that..
On 02/12/2025 03:49, c186282 wrote:
On 12/1/25 06:33, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/12/2025 11:19, Daniel70 wrote:
On 1/12/2025 8:50 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 12/1/25 03:40, Paul wrote:
<Snip>
Is this why Donald wants Greenland??The whole (never ending) process is a can of worms.
I can believe it.
Denmark is a special case too ... small, but also a bit close
to Russia/Kaliningrad for comfort too. If Russia goes after
Finland/Sweden it might seize some of those little islands
between, secure its access to the North Sea.
No. He wants it because its stuffed full of minerals. Under a
mile of ice. At sub zero temperatures.
Which he didn't understand the implications of.
He's not a 'scientist' - a 'businessman' instead. 'Scientists'
rarely play a big role in national policy.
If you think Trump is a businessman, I feel for you.
His 'businesses' are the 'start with a million ...
and end up with a thousand' sort of success stories.
He's just a grubby little shyster Thick as two short planks and twice
as wide.
("Wide person" is not a standard English term. It most likely refers
to the British slang term "wide boy," which means a shrewd, cunning,
and often dishonest man who lives by his wits, particularly through
shady dealings or petty crime. The term "wide" in this context
implies being "wide-awake" or sharp. )
Anyway, the rare earths ARE there in abundance and Trump - and many
others - WANT them all.
Rare earths are not especially rare.
On 2025-12-05 11:50, Daniel70 wrote:
On 2/12/2025 11:17 am, Nuno Silva wrote:
On 2025-12-01, rbowman wrote:What's '112'??
I've had no need to call 911, the equivalent to 999 or whatever the UK >>>> emergency system uses but that would also be interesting.
At least for calls over GSM (the point here being that I don't know
whether "wifi calling" will still honor this), I think you're supposed
to be able to just dial 112, no matter where you are.
(DuckDuckgo seems to think it is an American R&B group who are going
'on the road' for a tour .... or, rather, they were going on the road.)
The emergency number in most of the EU.
Ordered a newer unit. It'd BETTER boot Linux or
it goes straight in the bin and HPs forever off
my list.
On 02/12/2025 02:41, c186282 wrote:
On 12/1/25 06:19, Daniel70 wrote:Miles of bleeding ice.
On 1/12/2025 8:50 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 12/1/25 03:40, Paul wrote:
<Snip>
Is this why Donald wants Greenland??The whole (never ending) process is a can of worms.
I can believe it.
Denmark is a special case too ... small, but also
a bit close to Russia/Kaliningrad for comfort too.
If Russia goes after Finland/Sweden it might seize
some of those little islands between, secure its
access to the North Sea.
Nah ... rare earths.
On Mon, 12/1/2025 10:09 PM, c186282 wrote:
On 12/1/25 06:27, Daniel70 wrote:
On 1/12/2025 9:55 pm, c186282 wrote:
<Snip>
So far nobody admits to having a fully automatedShades of Arnold and 'Terminator'!! ;-)
fighter-drone that meets/exceeds human performance.
They'll come, soon. A big issue is that the AI
cannot be made small enough, an online link with
a bigger brain would be needed - and jammable.
Neural-network based AI might fit, but the
hardware needed to make it efficient still
isn't quite there.
As I reported in some other groups, even James Cameron
is now voicing concerns that he produced prophecy, not
mere fiction :-)
NNs have at least equal potential to LLMs, but would
not need a zillion NVidia chips doing, under the hood,
lots of conventional computing. However they really
need neuron-ish hardware which is not all there yet.
They ARE working on it though, it's getting better
all the time. No doubt they've put LLMs onto the
job at this point ...
In theory, such native NNs could be much more compact
than any LLM approach ... autonomous "Terminators"
thus become possible.
I still think there's some kind of weird "self-
reflection"/"hall of mirrors" thing to proper
'self'. Watch the world, watch yourself in the
world, observe responses. The LLMs are sort of
getting this now ... some of their training
material will be news and such ABOUT LLMs in
various contexts. They can now "see themselves"
and are beginning to SHOW it.
Some months ago there were news blurbs about
I think OpenAI, at its own initiative, finding
and sabotaging the software routines used to
shut it down. That IS a kind of "self", "self
awareness" and "survival instinct". Not exactly
"human", but these things aren't human - more
like 'aliens'.
Anyway, military, envision hover-drones with a
dozen guns that NEVER miss ... the calx for
a perfect hit would be EASY. 1000 bullets,
1000 dead 'enemy'. If such machines do not
yet exist they WILL, very very soon.
But who, or what, sets the goals ?
The current LLM-AI are non-deterministic, if you
give them a gun, they are just as likely to shoot
you as to shoot some opponent.
A gun toting metal-dude, can't reliably avoid
shooting you 20% of the time. It has to avoid
shooting you 100% of the time. Like, if you didn't
give it instructions "be careful of firing angles
that cause ricochet towards me", then the thing
would use its automatic weapon at inopportune
angles and completely spoil your day.
You notice some of these trends, when you ask an--
AI to write a computer program. Yes, it writes the
program. But it does not worry about a myriad of
tiny "issues" with aspects of the program. Sure,
you the human, can note the failings and say
things like "and don't use any subroutines that
have known bugs", but by then it's too late
if a gun was being carried. If a metal-dude fires
a gun in the wrong direction, it's too late to
give corrective instructions.
Paul
On 2/12/2025 10:06 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/12/2025 03:47, c186282 wrote:But Donald doesn't need to do that, now, cause the other World
But people really don't *like* that...
All of these are available if you play nice with your neighbours. >>>>>> All of them are closed doors if you do not.
Unless you blast down the door ....
Awww ... tuff titty !
You entirely miss the point.
British sarcasm...
If you want to conquer the world and hold it by force against the
wishes of its populations, good luck with that.
I refer you to Afghanistan. I refer you to Russia, the so called
superpower with no friends whatsoever - apart from Donald Trump.
But would the USA population allow him to send US troops to fight
against Ukraine and Europe on Russia's side?
People really wouldn't *like* that..
Superpower, China, has been supplying not-so-powerful Russia with weapons/personal to help defeat Russia's arch-enemy, Ukraine!!
What's '112'??
The emergency number in most of the EU.
Ah!! O.K., so '112' in Europe, '911' in U.S.of A., '999' in Pommieland
and '000' here in Aus!!
The USA, of course, is not joining world standards.The EU is not the world.
On 2/12/2025 11:17 am, Nuno Silva wrote:
On 2025-12-01, rbowman wrote:What's '112'??
I've had no need to call 911, the equivalent to 999 or whatever the UK
emergency system uses but that would also be interesting.
At least for calls over GSM (the point here being that I don't know
whether "wifi calling" will still honor this), I think you're supposed
to be able to just dial 112, no matter where you are.
(DuckDuckgo seems to think it is an American R&B group who are going
'on the road' for a tour .... or, rather, they were going on the
road.)
On 2025-12-01, rbowman wrote:
rbowman>>>>> I've had no need to call 911, the equivalent to 999
rbowman>>>>> or whatever the UK emergency system uses but that
rbowman>>>>> would also be interesting.
On 2025-12-05 11:50, Daniel70 wrote:
What's '112'??
On 5/12/2025 10:06 pm, Carlos E.R. wrote:
The emergency number in most of the EU.
On 2025-12-05, Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
Ah!! O.K., so '112' in Europe, '911' in U.S.of A., '999' in Pommieland
and '000' here in Aus!!
The codes used to be all over the place. In Denmark it was
000; all the "special service codes" began with 00xx.
In the UK it was 999. Both of these were picked because they were the
longest pulse sets in the rotary dial - you wanted to avoid them being activated accidentally when wind cause wires to hit each other.
Rotary dials existed in four layouts:
1234567890
9876543210
0123456789
0987654321
I think all of these (000, 999, 911) are supposed to be phased out
in favor of 112. In the new system, all "special service codes" begin
with 11x. The USA, of course, is not joining world standards.
As a result, I think all mobile phones will route any of these codes to
the emergency response center wherever you are.
At present, an issue with stocks is "capital gains"
taxes. Lefties want to boost that out the ass, to steal all you
earned. How DARE you do well !!!
On 2/12/2025 10:12 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/12/2025 03:49, c186282 wrote:
On 12/1/25 06:33, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/12/2025 11:19, Daniel70 wrote:
On 1/12/2025 8:50 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 12/1/25 03:40, Paul wrote:
<Snip>
Is this why Donald wants Greenland??The whole (never ending) process is a can of worms.
I can believe it.
Denmark is a special case too ... small, but also a bit close
to Russia/Kaliningrad for comfort too. If Russia goes after
Finland/Sweden it might seize some of those little islands
between, secure its access to the North Sea.
No. He wants it because its stuffed full of minerals. Under a
mile of ice. At sub zero temperatures.
Which he didn't understand the implications of.
He's not a 'scientist' - a 'businessman' instead. 'Scientists'
rarely play a big role in national policy.
If you think Trump is a businessman, I feel for you.
His 'businesses' are the 'start with a million ...
.... of Daddy's money ....
and end up with a thousand' sort of success stories.Yeah, I had wondered about that, too. ;-)
He's just a grubby little shyster Thick as two short planks and twice
as wide.
("Wide person" is not a standard English term. It most likely refers
to the British slang term "wide boy," which means a shrewd, cunning,
and often dishonest man who lives by his wits, particularly through
shady dealings or petty crime. The term "wide" in this context
implies being "wide-awake" or sharp. )
Anyway, the rare earths ARE there in abundance and Trump - and many
others - WANT them all.
Rare earths are not especially rare.
On 4/12/2025 2:13 pm, c186282 wrote:
<Snip>
Ordered a newer unit. It'd BETTER boot Linux or
it goes straight in the bin and HPs forever off
my list.
My HP 6730b laptop DID dual boot Win7 and MageiaLinux .... until it
started deleting the Win7 Installation!!
On 4/12/2025 2:13 pm, c186282 wrote:
<Snip>
Ordered a newer unit. It'd BETTER boot Linux or
it goes straight in the bin and HPs forever off
my list.
My HP 6730b laptop DID dual boot Win7 and MageiaLinux .... until it started deleting the Win7 Installation!!
On 12/5/25 06:54, Daniel70 wrote:
On 2/12/2025 10:12 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/12/2025 03:49, c186282 wrote:
On 12/1/25 06:33, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/12/2025 11:19, Daniel70 wrote:
On 1/12/2025 8:50 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 12/1/25 03:40, Paul wrote:
<Snip>
Is this why Donald wants Greenland??The whole (never ending) process is a can of worms.
I can believe it.
Denmark is a special case too ... small, but also a bit close
to Russia/Kaliningrad for comfort too. If Russia goes after
Finland/Sweden it might seize some of those little islands
between, secure its access to the North Sea.
No. He wants it because its stuffed full of minerals. Under a
mile of ice. At sub zero temperatures.
Which he didn't understand the implications of.
He's not a 'scientist' - a 'businessman' instead. 'Scientists'
rarely play a big role in national policy.
If you think Trump is a businessman, I feel for you.
His 'businesses' are the 'start with a million ...
.... of Daddy's money ....
and end up with a thousand' sort of success stories.Yeah, I had wondered about that, too. ;-)
He's just a grubby little shyster Thick as two short planks and twice
as wide.
("Wide person" is not a standard English term. It most likely refers
to the British slang term "wide boy," which means a shrewd, cunning,
and often dishonest man who lives by his wits, particularly through
shady dealings or petty crime. The term "wide" in this context
implies being "wide-awake" or sharp. )
Anyway, the rare earths ARE there in abundance and Trump - and many
others - WANT them all.
Rare earths are not especially rare.
But REFINING the ores is a pain in the ass. At present
China has almost all of the worlds capacity. The USA
and some EU countries are at the starting stage for
building similar facilities ... but that's going to take
a few years.
The elements ARE kind-of 'rare' too ... not like iron
or aluminum or copper.
On Fri, 12/5/2025 9:34 PM, c186282 wrote:
On 12/5/25 06:54, Daniel70 wrote:
On 2/12/2025 10:12 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/12/2025 03:49, c186282 wrote:
On 12/1/25 06:33, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/12/2025 11:19, Daniel70 wrote:
On 1/12/2025 8:50 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 12/1/25 03:40, Paul wrote:
<Snip>
Is this why Donald wants Greenland??The whole (never ending) process is a can of worms.
I can believe it.
Denmark is a special case too ... small, but also a bit close
to Russia/Kaliningrad for comfort too. If Russia goes after
Finland/Sweden it might seize some of those little islands
between, secure its access to the North Sea.
No. He wants it because its stuffed full of minerals. Under a
mile of ice. At sub zero temperatures.
Which he didn't understand the implications of.
He's not a 'scientist' - a 'businessman' instead. 'Scientists'
rarely play a big role in national policy.
If you think Trump is a businessman, I feel for you.
His 'businesses' are the 'start with a million ...
.... of Daddy's money ....
and end up with a thousand' sort of success stories.Yeah, I had wondered about that, too. ;-)
He's just a grubby little shyster Thick as two short planks and twice
as wide.
("Wide person" is not a standard English term. It most likely refers
to the British slang term "wide boy," which means a shrewd, cunning,
and often dishonest man who lives by his wits, particularly through
shady dealings or petty crime. The term "wide" in this context
implies being "wide-awake" or sharp. )
Anyway, the rare earths ARE there in abundance and Trump - and many
others - WANT them all.
Rare earths are not especially rare.
But REFINING the ores is a pain in the ass. At present
China has almost all of the worlds capacity. The USA
and some EU countries are at the starting stage for
building similar facilities ... but that's going to take
a few years.
The elements ARE kind-of 'rare' too ... not like iron
or aluminum or copper.
See a recent article, for some nuances of what is going on.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2025/12/in-myanmar-illicit-rare-earth-mining-is-taking-a-heavy-toll/
The rare earths aren't coming from the Chinese mine quite
like they were.
On Fri, 5 Dec 2025 03:55:14 -0500, c186282 wrote:
At present, an issue with stocks is "capital gains"
taxes. Lefties want to boost that out the ass, to steal all you
earned. How DARE you do well !!!
I don't know if 'earned' is the right word.
On 2025-12-01, rbowman wrote:
rbowman>>>>> I've had no need to call 911, the equivalent to 999
rbowman>>>>> or whatever the UK emergency system uses but that
rbowman>>>>> would also be interesting.
On 2025-12-05 11:50, Daniel70 wrote:
What's '112'??
On 5/12/2025 10:06 pm, Carlos E.R. wrote:
The emergency number in most of the EU.
On 2025-12-05, Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
Ah!! O.K., so '112' in Europe, '911' in U.S.of A., '999' in Pommieland
and '000' here in Aus!!
The codes used to be all over the place. In Denmark it was
000; all the "special service codes" began with 00xx.
In the UK it was 999. Both of these were picked because they were the
longest pulse sets in the rotary dial - you wanted to avoid them being activated accidentally when wind cause wires to hit each other.
Rotary dials existed in four layouts:
1234567890
9876543210
0123456789
0987654321
I think all of these (000, 999, 911) are supposed to be phased out
in favor of 112. In the new system, all "special service codes" begin
with 11x. The USA, of course, is not joining world standards.
As a result, I think all mobile phones will route any of these codes to
the emergency response center wherever you are.
On 2025-12-05, Daniel70 wrote:
On 2/12/2025 11:17 am, Nuno Silva wrote:
On 2025-12-01, rbowman wrote:What's '112'??
I've had no need to call 911, the equivalent to 999 or whatever the UK >>>> emergency system uses but that would also be interesting.
At least for calls over GSM (the point here being that I don't know
whether "wifi calling" will still honor this), I think you're supposed
to be able to just dial 112, no matter where you are.
(DuckDuckgo seems to think it is an American R&B group who are going
'on the road' for a tour .... or, rather, they were going on the
road.)
Emergency number in the European Union and in GSM handsets.
On 2025-12-05 15:48, Lars Poulsen wrote:
On 2025-12-01, rbowman wrote:
rbowman>>>>> I've had no need to call 911, the equivalent to 999
rbowman>>>>> or whatever the UK emergency system uses but that
rbowman>>>>> would also be interesting.
On 2025-12-05 11:50, Daniel70 wrote:
What's '112'??
On 5/12/2025 10:06 pm, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-05, Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:The emergency number in most of the EU.
Ah!! O.K., so '112' in Europe, '911' in U.S.of A., '999' in Pommieland
and '000' here in Aus!!
The codes used to be all over the place. In Denmark it was
000; all the "special service codes" began with 00xx.
In the UK it was 999. Both of these were picked because they were the
longest pulse sets in the rotary dial - you wanted to avoid them being
activated accidentally when wind cause wires to hit each other.
Rotary dials existed in four layouts:
1234567890
9876543210
0123456789
0987654321
I'm trying to remember a key lock that was placed in the wheel of rotary phones, if it would impede dialing 999. It would depend on the layout.
https://share.google/muhXcSNmi6KY9slVM
On 05/12/2025 11:40, Daniel70 wrote:
On 2/12/2025 10:06 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/12/2025 03:47, c186282 wrote:But Donald doesn't need to do that, now, cause the other World
But people really don't *like* that...
All of these are available if you play nice with your neighbours. >>>>>>> All of them are closed doors if you do not.
Unless you blast down the door ....
Awww ... tuff titty !
You entirely miss the point.
British sarcasm...
If you want to conquer the world and hold it by force against the
wishes of its populations, good luck with that.
I refer you to Afghanistan. I refer you to Russia, the so called
superpower with no friends whatsoever - apart from Donald Trump.
But would the USA population allow him to send US troops to fight
against Ukraine and Europe on Russia's side?
People really wouldn't *like* that..
Superpower, China, has been supplying not-so-powerful Russia with
weapons/personal to help defeat Russia's arch-enemy, Ukraine!!
I've not seen anything more dangerous from China than a golf cart.
On Fri, 5 Dec 2025 03:55:14 -0500, c186282 wrote:
At present, an issue with stocks is "capital gains"
taxes. Lefties want to boost that out the ass, to steal all you
earned. How DARE you do well !!!
I don't know if 'earned' is the right word.
On 12/5/25 07:14, Daniel70 wrote:
On 4/12/2025 2:13 pm, c186282 wrote:
<Snip>
Ordered a newer unit. It'd BETTER boot Linux or
it goes straight in the bin and HPs forever off
my list.
My HP 6730b laptop DID dual boot Win7 and MageiaLinux .... until it
started deleting the Win7 Installation!!
Why would you need a Win installation ? That's the
first thing zapped when I get a new box ... don't
let it run for a millisecond :-)
On 12/5/25 13:45, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 5 Dec 2025 03:55:14 -0500, c186282 wrote:
At present, an issue with stocks is "capital gains"
taxes. Lefties want to boost that out the ass, to steal all you
earned. How DARE you do well !!!
I don't know if 'earned' is the right word.
Depends on whether you just went random or
actually put a little effort into choosing
the stocks.
At my age I've had to give up on 'gainers' and
switch more to 'interest-earners'. Works out fine.
On Fri, 12/5/2025 7:14 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 4/12/2025 2:13 pm, c186282 wrote:
<Snip>
Ordered a newer unit. It'd BETTER boot Linux or
it goes straight in the bin and HPs forever off
my list.
My HP 6730b laptop DID dual boot Win7 and MageiaLinux .... until it started deleting the Win7 Installation!!
This is unlikely to be in evidence.
If you're to be a dual-booter, you have to learn all
the tricks of being a dual-booter.
You *can't* be a dual booter, by just getting recipes from people.
It's a trial and error thing. You learn about it by trial
and error. You draw conclusions, after you've done
enough of these.
The rule for Windows is:
1) Repair Install of W10/W11 will not trash GRUB.
Windows knows it doesn't need to write a boot loader in that case.
2) *Clean Install* of Windows, that will write a boot loader
and can generally be relied upon to upset GRUB. However,
this can be fixed (for example, Yanns Boot Repair CD).
You can also manually chroot in from a LiveCD and put GRUB back.
Nothing gets deleted there. Your situation would be one
of something needing a tweak to turn the lights back on.
Paul
But REFINING the ores is a pain in the ass. At present
China has almost all of the worlds capacity. The USA
and some EU countries are at the starting stage for
building similar facilities ... but that's going to take
a few years.
The elements ARE kind-of 'rare' too ... not like iron
or aluminum or copper.
See a recent article, for some nuances of what is going on.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2025/12/in-myanmar-illicit-rare-earth-mining-is-taking-a-heavy-toll/
On 12/5/25 07:14, Daniel70 wrote:
On 4/12/2025 2:13 pm, c186282 wrote:
<Snip>
Ordered a newer unit. It'd BETTER boot Linux or
it goes straight in the bin and HPs forever off
my list.
My HP 6730b laptop DID dual boot Win7 and MageiaLinux .... until it
started deleting the Win7 Installation!!
Why would you need a Win installation ? That's the
first thing zapped when I get a new box ... don't
let it run for a millisecond :-)
On 4 Dec 2025 18:24:38 GMT
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
Translation: screw the consumers that have been buying Crucial RAM;
thar's money in them thar AI hills!
It is truly incredible how brain-dead and short-sighted management at
*so* many major industry players is. This is, I guess, what comes of fostering a business culture where the primary criteria for promotion
isn't business acumen or applicable knowledge, but bloviating in just
the right way so's to convince equally brain-dead MBAs that you're a
Dynamic Thought Leader :/
If the AI balloon bursts, like it has a history of doing, there will
be a lot of people in deep shit. Unfortunately the general public
will be swimming around in the cesspool too.
It's not "if," but "when" - and it's *not* gonna be pretty. Just the
other day I had to spend several hours trying to convince myself I had
*any* interest in stocks for long enough to get my 401(k) out of the
default "invest everything in the absolute biggest players on the
market" setting and into funds based around companies that actually
*make* things, which might at least stand a chance of not cratering...
Gold ... looks like a big bubble to me at this point.
There's no justification for the price.
As it is now (or last time I tried months ago), the Linux installation still works ....
but, if I select, in Grub, to run the Win-7 Installation, before I get to the Desktop,
it tells me it is "Deleting Sector 1234567", "Deleting Sector 1234568", "Deleting Sector 1234569", etc, etc, etc, (sort of thing) .... until I press a key or hold down the POWER button. So who knows how much of the Win-7 system
is still there (I haven't looked at the Win-7 drives from with-in Linux).
On 6/12/2025 1:36 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 12/5/25 07:14, Daniel70 wrote:Back when I brought the Laptop (2009), it had Win-7 pre-installed ....
On 4/12/2025 2:13 pm, c186282 wrote:
<Snip>
Ordered a newer unit. It'd BETTER boot Linux or
it goes straight in the bin and HPs forever off
my list.
My HP 6730b laptop DID dual boot Win7 and MageiaLinux .... until it
started deleting the Win7 Installation!!
Why would you need a Win installation ? That's the
first thing zapped when I get a new box ... don't
let it run for a millisecond :-)
and I was 'playing' with Linux so I thought it would be better to leave
the Win-7 insitu and Dual Boot the Linux ..... so, if I stuffed
something up Linux-wise, I could switch back to Win-7 and away I'd go.
You know .... Safety first!!
On Sat, 12/6/2025 7:02 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
As it is now (or last time I tried months ago), the Linux
installation still works .... but, if I select, in Grub, to run the
Win-7 Installation, before I get to the Desktop, it tells me it is
"Deleting Sector 1234567", "Deleting Sector 1234568", "Deleting
Sector 1234569", etc, etc, etc, (sort of thing) .... until I press
a key or hold down the POWER button. So who knows how much of the
Win-7 system is still there (I haven't looked at the Win-7 drives
from with-in Linux).
And what piece of software was doing that ?
That almost sounds like the third-pass recovery thing running, and
doing a badblock scan and using $BADCLUS to mark off clusters no
longer fit to be used. But that is a stretch because I'd never allow
a machine to go that far. I'd boot a DVD and use Troubleshooting and
Command Prompt, and work on it there.
I've run into more than a few people, who will allow their storage to--
degrade so far, it's almost unrecoverable. Like waiting too long to
clone over to a good drive. This is one of the reasons we have
backups. So there is a good (but slightly old) copy of the setup, to
use in a restore.
Paul
One wonders how effective that "Phone Lock" is if you leave the key in
it 24/7!! ;-)
On 2025-12-06, Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
One wonders how effective that "Phone Lock" is if you leave the key in
it 24/7!! ;-)
A lock like that motivaters training proper cadence of clicking the hookswitch ;-)
I think all of these (000, 999, 911) are supposed to be phased out
in favor of 112. In the new system, all "special service codes" begin
with 11x. The USA, of course, is not joining world standards.
As a result, I think all mobile phones will route any of these codes to
the emergency response center wherever you are.
On 05/12/2025 17:15, Nuno Silva wrote:
On 2025-12-05, Daniel70 wrote:Not ubiquitous even there.
On 2/12/2025 11:17 am, Nuno Silva wrote:
On 2025-12-01, rbowman wrote:What's '112'??
I've had no need to call 911, the equivalent to 999 or whatever the UK >>>>> emergency system uses but that would also be interesting.
At least for calls over GSM (the point here being that I don't know
whether "wifi calling" will still honor this), I think you're supposed >>>> to be able to just dial 112, no matter where you are.
(DuckDuckgo seems to think it is an American R&B group who are going
'on the road' for a tour .... or, rather, they were going on the
road.)
Emergency number in the European Union and in GSM handsets.
MY GSM handset knows about 999.
On 6/12/2025 12:05 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/12/2025 11:40, Daniel70 wrote:Ah! O.K., for a while there I thought you were going to type 'shopping
On 2/12/2025 10:06 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/12/2025 03:47, c186282 wrote:But Donald doesn't need to do that, now, cause the other World
But people really don't *like* that...
All of these are available if you play nice with your
neighbours. All of them are closed doors if you do not.
Unless you blast down the door ....
Awww ... tuff titty !
You entirely miss the point.
British sarcasm...
If you want to conquer the world and hold it by force against the
wishes of its populations, good luck with that.
I refer you to Afghanistan. I refer you to Russia, the so called
superpower with no friends whatsoever - apart from Donald Trump.
But would the USA population allow him to send US troops to fight
against Ukraine and Europe on Russia's side?
People really wouldn't *like* that..
Superpower, China, has been supplying not-so-powerful Russia with
weapons/personal to help defeat Russia's arch-enemy, Ukraine!!
I've not seen anything more dangerous from China than a golf cart.
cart' .... and we all know how 'dangerous' they can be!!
On 6/12/2025 1:36 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 12/5/25 07:14, Daniel70 wrote:Back when I brought the Laptop (2009), it had Win-7 pre-installed ....
On 4/12/2025 2:13 pm, c186282 wrote:
<Snip>
Ordered a newer unit. It'd BETTER boot Linux or
it goes straight in the bin and HPs forever off
my list.
My HP 6730b laptop DID dual boot Win7 and MageiaLinux .... until it
started deleting the Win7 Installation!!
Why would you need a Win installation ? That's the
first thing zapped when I get a new box ... don't
let it run for a millisecond :-)
and I was 'playing' with Linux so I thought it would be better to leave
the Win-7 insitu and Dual Boot the Linux ..... so, if I stuffed
something up Linux-wise, I could switch back to Win-7 and away I'd go.
You know .... Safety first!!
On 06/12/2025 09:24, c186282 wrote:
On 12/5/25 13:45, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 5 Dec 2025 03:55:14 -0500, c186282 wrote:
At present, an issue with stocks is "capital gains"
taxes. Lefties want to boost that out the ass, to steal all you >>>> earned. How DARE you do well !!!
I don't know if 'earned' is the right word.
Depends on whether you just went random or
actually put a little effort into choosing
the stocks.
At my age I've had to give up on 'gainers' and
switch more to 'interest-earners'. Works out fine.
Oh I am full on 'gainers; but accept a lower rate of return for not
reading the financial papers every day and spending my life trading.
I let other people do that now. I.e I invested in funds.
I have some stock, but the bulk is in funds. Mainly global energy and
tech. Return fluctuates, but 7-10% is not infeasible with very little effort.
On 12/6/25 06:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 06/12/2025 09:24, c186282 wrote:
On 12/5/25 13:45, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 5 Dec 2025 03:55:14 -0500, c186282 wrote:
At present, an issue with stocks is "capital gains"
taxes. Lefties want to boost that out the ass, to steal all you >>>>> earned. How DARE you do well !!!
I don't know if 'earned' is the right word.
Depends on whether you just went random or
actually put a little effort into choosing
the stocks.
At my age I've had to give up on 'gainers' and
switch more to 'interest-earners'. Works out fine.
Oh I am full on 'gainers; but accept a lower rate of return for not
reading the financial papers every day and spending my life trading.
Ya know ... NOT sure how much those 'financial papers'
and Bloomberg blather contribute to success. The best
people just seem to have a nose for it.
I *can* see disaster bubbles in progress though ... and
that's going to include most of the 'AI' phenom within
a few years.
Sell high ? Capital-gains taxes and such may blunt any
earnings. "They" WANT your money.
I let other people do that now. I.e I invested in funds.
I have some stock, but the bulk is in funds. Mainly global energy and
tech. Return fluctuates, but 7-10% is not infeasible with very little
effort.
"Energy" and "basic tech" are 'good enough' overall.
The trick these days is figuring out which sector
won't be devastated by the latest, mindless, ideological
wars at the top.
On Fri, 5 Dec 2025 14:48:12 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen
<lars@beagle-ears.com> wrote:
I think all of these (000, 999, 911) are supposed to be phased out
in favor of 112. In the new system, all "special service codes" begin
with 11x. The USA, of course, is not joining world standards.
As a result, I think all mobile phones will route any of these codes to
the emergency response center wherever you are.
In South Africa all cell phones have the emergency number 112, but on landlines it is 10111.
On 12/6/25 06:44, Daniel70 wrote:
On 6/12/2025 12:05 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/12/2025 11:40, Daniel70 wrote:Ah! O.K., for a while there I thought you were going to type 'shopping
On 2/12/2025 10:06 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/12/2025 03:47, c186282 wrote:But Donald doesn't need to do that, now, cause the other World
But people really don't *like* that...
All of these are available if you play nice with your
neighbours. All of them are closed doors if you do not.
Unless you blast down the door ....
Awww ... tuff titty !
You entirely miss the point.
British sarcasm...
If you want to conquer the world and hold it by force against the
wishes of its populations, good luck with that.
I refer you to Afghanistan. I refer you to Russia, the so called
superpower with no friends whatsoever - apart from Donald Trump.
But would the USA population allow him to send US troops to fight
against Ukraine and Europe on Russia's side?
People really wouldn't *like* that..
Superpower, China, has been supplying not-so-powerful Russia with
weapons/personal to help defeat Russia's arch-enemy, Ukraine!!
I've not seen anything more dangerous from China than a golf cart.
cart' .... and we all know how 'dangerous' they can be!!
I always get the one with the wobbly wheel ...
On 7/12/2025 11:46 am, Steve Hayes wrote:
On Fri, 5 Dec 2025 14:48:12 -0000 (UTC), Lars PoulsenOh, how handy. In a Emergency, you have to stop and think "What phone am I using now??"
<lars@beagle-ears.com> wrote:
I think all of these (000, 999, 911) are supposed to be phased out
in favor of 112. In the new system, all "special service codes" begin
with 11x. The USA, of course, is not joining world standards.
As a result, I think all mobile phones will route any of these codes to
the emergency response center wherever you are.
In South Africa all cell phones have the emergency number 112, but on
landlines it is 10111.
On 7/12/2025 3:27 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 12/6/25 06:44, Daniel70 wrote:.... and, if it's NOT the one with the wobbly wheel, it's the one that feels like someone has left the Brakes on it on.
On 6/12/2025 12:05 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/12/2025 11:40, Daniel70 wrote:Ah! O.K., for a while there I thought you were going to type 'shopping cart' .... and we all know how 'dangerous' they can be!!
On 2/12/2025 10:06 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/12/2025 03:47, c186282 wrote:But Donald doesn't need to do that, now, cause the other World Superpower, China, has been supplying not-so-powerful Russia with weapons/personal to help defeat Russia's arch-enemy, Ukraine!!
But people really don't *like* that...
All of these are available if you play nice with your neighbours. All of them are closed doors if you do not.
Unless you blast down the door ....
Awww ... tuff titty !
You entirely miss the point.
British sarcasm...
If you want to conquer the world and hold it by force against the wishes of its populations, good luck with that.
I refer you to Afghanistan. I refer you to Russia, the so called superpower with no friends whatsoever - apart from Donald Trump.
But would the USA population allow him to send US troops to fight against Ukraine and Europe on Russia's side?
People really wouldn't *like* that..
I've not seen anything more dangerous from China than a golf cart.
I always get the one with the wobbly wheel ...
On Sun, 12/7/2025 7:53 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 7/12/2025 3:27 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 12/6/25 06:44, Daniel70 wrote:.... and, if it's NOT the one with the wobbly wheel, it's the one that
On 6/12/2025 12:05 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/12/2025 11:40, Daniel70 wrote:Ah! O.K., for a while there I thought you were going to type
On 2/12/2025 10:06 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/12/2025 03:47, c186282 wrote:But Donald doesn't need to do that, now, cause the other World
But people really don't *like* that...
All of these are available if you play nice with your
neighbours. All of them are closed doors if you do not.
Unless you blast down the door ....
Awww ... tuff titty !
You entirely miss the point.
British sarcasm...
If you want to conquer the world and hold it by force against the >>>>>>> wishes of its populations, good luck with that.
I refer you to Afghanistan. I refer you to Russia, the so called >>>>>>> superpower with no friends whatsoever - apart from Donald Trump. >>>>>>>
But would the USA population allow him to send US troops to fight >>>>>>> against Ukraine and Europe on Russia's side?
People really wouldn't *like* that..
Superpower, China, has been supplying not-so-powerful Russia with
weapons/personal to help defeat Russia's arch-enemy, Ukraine!!
I've not seen anything more dangerous from China than a golf cart.
'shopping cart' .... and we all know how 'dangerous' they can be!!
I always get the one with the wobbly wheel ...
feels like someone has left the Brakes on it on.
They do have brakes.
Some carts have a battery operated electronic brake. The exits at the premises have RF devices that "mark" the boundary of where the cart is allowed to be used. If you attempt to leave the premises, the brake goes
on.
The "cart-boy" has a remote for resetting the brake.
Paul
On Sun, 12/7/2025 7:53 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 7/12/2025 3:27 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 12/6/25 06:44, Daniel70 wrote:
On 6/12/2025 12:05 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/12/2025 11:40, Daniel70 wrote:
.... and, if it's NOT the one with the wobbly wheel, it's the one that feels like someone has left the Brakes on it on.Ah! O.K., for a while there I thought you were going to type 'shopping cart' .... and we all know how 'dangerous' they can be!!
I always get the one with the wobbly wheel ...
They do have brakes.
Some carts have a battery operated electronic brake.
The exits at the premises have RF devices that "mark"
the boundary of where the cart is allowed to be used.
If you attempt to leave the premises, the brake goes on.
The "cart-boy" has a remote for resetting the brake.
On 12/6/25 06:52, Daniel70 wrote:
On 6/12/2025 1:36 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 12/5/25 07:14, Daniel70 wrote:Back when I brought the Laptop (2009), it had Win-7 pre-installed ....
On 4/12/2025 2:13 pm, c186282 wrote:
<Snip>
Ordered a newer unit. It'd BETTER boot Linux or
it goes straight in the bin and HPs forever off
my list.
My HP 6730b laptop DID dual boot Win7 and MageiaLinux .... until it
started deleting the Win7 Installation!!
Why would you need a Win installation ? That's the
first thing zapped when I get a new box ... don't
let it run for a millisecond :-)
and I was 'playing' with Linux so I thought it would be better to
leave the Win-7 insitu and Dual Boot the Linux ..... so, if I stuffed
something up Linux-wise, I could switch back to Win-7 and away I'd go.
You know .... Safety first!!
LONG back I did dual (plus) boots. Then quickly I found
I was never booting Winders anymore ... so .......
Sorry, NO MORE WINDERS. I'm not gonna get an MS account,
not going to use their cloud, not gonna use ever-more-
fuzzy O365, not ... well ... NEVER.
Now it's a matter of pride to keep pre-installs from
executing even one instruction before I nuke 'em with
a Linux install.
Another thing is the TomTom tool. Sometimes I need to connect the thing
to the computer and do something on the software (like enable debug so
that customer service finds the problem).
I think the store where I shop is going that way. I almost always use the plastic baskets and I noticed they had vanished. I asked a checkout person and she said people kept stealing them and they were moving to new carts.
A couple of weeks later the baskets were back. They must have gotten tired of 'cleanup on aisle 5' as people dropped the jar of spaghetti sauce while trying to balance three other items.
On 2025-12-07 18:51, Paul wrote:
On Sun, 12/7/2025 7:53 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 7/12/2025 3:27 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 12/6/25 06:44, Daniel70 wrote:
On 6/12/2025 12:05 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/12/2025 11:40, Daniel70 wrote:
.... and, if it's NOT the one with the wobbly wheel, it's the one that feels like someone has left the Brakes on it on.Ah! O.K., for a while there I thought you were going to type 'shopping cart' .... and we all know how 'dangerous' they can be!!
I always get the one with the wobbly wheel ...
They do have brakes.
Some carts have a battery operated electronic brake.
The exits at the premises have RF devices that "mark"
the boundary of where the cart is allowed to be used.
If you attempt to leave the premises, the brake goes on.
The "cart-boy" has a remote for resetting the brake.
I understood there is no battery involved. There was an article that told how to lock/unlock with a mobile phone.
https://www.begaydocrime.com/
Basically the carts work with a cable buried in the ground that generates electromagnetic pulses. What this noise does is mimic that pulse in your speaker coils to generate that electromagnetic signal near the wheel. And since they're very dumb systems... well, voilà, hacked. They don't use audio per se, the audio is a by-product.
Maybe there are other models around and some have a battery.
The carts where the battery is flat, they escape the corral and are
found lying about. It's important to change the battery on those,
because the brakes stop working when the battery is no good.
The plastic baskets are electronically marked, and the detectors at the
store exit beep if you try to walk out with the plastic basket.
On 2025-12-07 18:51, Paul wrote:
On Sun, 12/7/2025 7:53 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 7/12/2025 3:27 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 12/6/25 06:44, Daniel70 wrote:
On 6/12/2025 12:05 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/12/2025 11:40, Daniel70 wrote:
.... and, if it's NOT the one with the wobbly wheel, it's the oneAh! O.K., for a while there I thought you were going to type
'shopping cart' .... and we all know how 'dangerous' they can be!!
I always get the one with the wobbly wheel ...
that feels like someone has left the Brakes on it on.
They do have brakes.
Some carts have a battery operated electronic brake.
The exits at the premises have RF devices that "mark"
the boundary of where the cart is allowed to be used.
If you attempt to leave the premises, the brake goes on.
The "cart-boy" has a remote for resetting the brake.
I understood there is no battery involved. There was an article that
told how to lock/unlock with a mobile phone.
https://www.begaydocrime.com/
Basically the carts work with a cable buried in the ground that
generates electromagnetic pulses. What this noise does is mimic that
pulse in your speaker coils to generate that electromagnetic signal near
the wheel. And since they're very dumb systems... well, voilà, hacked.
They don't use audio per se, the audio is a by-product.
Maybe there are other models around and some have a battery.
On 2025-12-07 05:41, c186282 wrote:
On 12/6/25 06:52, Daniel70 wrote:
On 6/12/2025 1:36 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 12/5/25 07:14, Daniel70 wrote:Back when I brought the Laptop (2009), it had Win-7 pre-
On 4/12/2025 2:13 pm, c186282 wrote:
<Snip>
Ordered a newer unit. It'd BETTER boot Linux or
it goes straight in the bin and HPs forever off
my list.
My HP 6730b laptop DID dual boot Win7 and MageiaLinux .... until it >>>>> started deleting the Win7 Installation!!
Why would you need a Win installation ? That's the
first thing zapped when I get a new box ... don't
let it run for a millisecond :-)
installed .... and I was 'playing' with Linux so I thought it would
be better to leave the Win-7 insitu and Dual Boot the Linux ..... so,
if I stuffed something up Linux-wise, I could switch back to Win-7
and away I'd go.
You know .... Safety first!!
LONG back I did dual (plus) boots. Then quickly I found
I was never booting Winders anymore ... so .......
Sorry, NO MORE WINDERS. I'm not gonna get an MS account,
not going to use their cloud, not gonna use ever-more-
fuzzy O365, not ... well ... NEVER.
Now it's a matter of pride to keep pre-installs from
executing even one instruction before I nuke 'em with
a Linux install.
I have at least two things that require Windows.
One is purchased ebooks; the DRM protection on many shops require ADE,
Adobe Digital Editions to handle. If I purchase the ebooks at the
kobobooks place, then I don't need anything. But if I buy at third party places, I need it.
Another thing is the TomTom tool. Sometimes I need to connect the thing
to the computer and do something on the software (like enable debug so
that customer service finds the problem).
A decade ago, I needed a double boot laptop for this. Currently, a
virtual machine on vmware handles it.
On Sun, 7 Dec 2025 15:04:17 -0500, Paul wrote:
The carts where the battery is flat, they escape the corral and are
found lying about. It's important to change the battery on those,
because the brakes stop working when the battery is no good.
Poor battery life might rule it out but they could be set up like the air brakes on big trucks. The brakes are normally applied when there is no air pressure. It saves chasing 53' trailers around the lot.
The downside is this time of year with slop from the roads and freezing temperatures they can freeze in the applied position and the air solenoid doesn't have the force to break them loose. Enter 5# hammer and much cursing.--
On 2025-12-08, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 7 Dec 2025 15:04:17 -0500, Paul wrote:
The carts where the battery is flat, they escape the corral and are
found lying about. It's important to change the battery on those,
because the brakes stop working when the battery is no good.
Poor battery life might rule it out but they could be set up like the air
brakes on big trucks. The brakes are normally applied when there is no air >> pressure. It saves chasing 53' trailers around the lot.
Heh, I'd expect the go-to example for that kind of fail-safe brake
operation not to be be trucks but rather trains :-)
Heh, I'd expect the go-to example for that kind of fail-safe brake
operation not to be be trucks but rather trains :-)
On Sun, 12/7/2025 11:41 PM, Nuno Silva wrote:
Heh, I'd expect the go-to example for that kind of fail-safe brake
operation not to be be trucks but rather trains :-)
I don't think you really want to know how train brakes work :-/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lac-M%C3%A9gantic_rail_disaster
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_air_brake
It takes a while to absorb what is going on there, and what
component makes rail "safe". Hint: It's not the hardware.
You have to read articles like this more than once,
to fully appreciate it.
It takes a while to absorb what is going on there, and what component
makes rail "safe". Hint: It's not the hardware. You have to read
articles like this more than once,
to fully appreciate it.
On Sun, 12/7/2025 7:48 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 7/12/2025 11:46 am, Steve Hayes wrote:
On Fri, 5 Dec 2025 14:48:12 -0000 (UTC), Lars PoulsenOh, how handy. In a Emergency, you have to stop and think "What phone am I using now??"
<lars@beagle-ears.com> wrote:
I think all of these (000, 999, 911) are supposed to be phased out
in favor of 112. In the new system, all "special service codes" begin
with 11x. The USA, of course, is not joining world standards.
As a result, I think all mobile phones will route any of these codes to >>>> the emergency response center wherever you are.
In South Africa all cell phones have the emergency number 112, but on
landlines it is 10111.
I'm willing to bet, that if you phone 112 on the landline,
an informative message will give you the correct number
to call, like if it is 10111. The number space on each
phone, for special numbers, has to be mapped properly.
They could not afford to miss a detail like that.
For example here, I cannot remember what number I would be
phoning, but I have heard (burned into acoustic memory) this while
I'm waiting for someone to answer.
"If this is an emergency, please hang up and dial 911"
That's what I would expect, from an unmapped short number.
They will tell you what number to use, in that recorded message.
Not everything in the phone system is tested.
But some things are tested. And that would be one of them.
Paul
On Sun, 12/7/2025 7:53 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 7/12/2025 3:27 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 12/6/25 06:44, Daniel70 wrote:
On 6/12/2025 12:05 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
.... and, if it's NOT the one with the wobbly wheel, it's the oneI've not seen anything more dangerous from China than a golfAh! O.K., for a while there I thought you were going to type
cart.
'shopping cart' .... and we all know how 'dangerous' they can
be!!
I always get the one with the wobbly wheel ...
that feels like someone has left the Brakes on it on.
They do have brakes.
Some carts have a battery operated electronic brake. The exits at the premises have RF devices that "mark" the boundary of where the cart
is allowed to be used. If you attempt to leave the premises, the
brake goes on.
The "cart-boy" has a remote for resetting the brake.
On Sun, 12/7/2025 1:08 PM, rbowman wrote:
I think the store where I shop is going that way. I almost always use the
plastic baskets and I noticed they had vanished. I asked a checkout person >> and she said people kept stealing them and they were moving to new carts.
A couple of weeks later the baskets were back. They must have gotten tired >> of 'cleanup on aisle 5' as people dropped the jar of spaghetti sauce while >> trying to balance three other items.
The plastic baskets are electronically marked, and
the detectors at the store exit beep if you try
to walk out with the plastic basket.
But since security isn't always standing at the
exit, ready to jump in, the baskets still leave
the store.
I remember a cleaner somewhere, getting out of a--
van, and their cleaning supplies were hosted
in a stolen basket. So we know the baskets
are "going to a good cause" :-) They're not all
thrown on the railway tracks.
Paul
On Sun, 7 Dec 2025 14:37:25 -0500, Paul wrote:
The plastic baskets are electronically marked, and the detectors at the
store exit beep if you try to walk out with the plastic basket.
I'll have to look more closely. I was surprised they had enough shrinkage
for it to be a concern. The carts, otoh, easily convert to a Homeless
Hilux.
The carts where the battery is flat, they escape the corral
and are found lying about. It's important to change the battery
on those, because the brakes stop working when the battery is no good.
Paul
Have never seen any 'smart' ones ... just the basic
models the insane cat lady pushes down the street
full of her junk.
On Sun, 7 Dec 2025 19:25:01 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Another thing is the TomTom tool. Sometimes I need to connect the thing
to the computer and do something on the software (like enable debug so
that customer service finds the problem).
My Garmin Nuvi sometimes whines about needing a map update and the Garmin Express app is only for Windows or Mac. No big deal.What I mainly use it
for it the speed. The studded tires I put on last week are 14" wheels and
the car came with 15" so the speedometer is slightly off. I'm used to
that. Jap bike speedometers always were optimistic so you mentally
subtract 5 or 10 mph from the needle.
The plastic baskets are electronically marked, and the detectors at the
store exit beep if you try to walk out with the plastic basket.
I'll have to look more closely. I was surprised they had enough shrinkage for it to be a concern. The carts, otoh, easily convert to a Homeless
Hilux.
On 8/12/2025 6:33 am, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 7 Dec 2025 19:25:01 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Another thing is the TomTom tool. Sometimes I need to connect the thing
to the computer and do something on the software (like enable debug so
that customer service finds the problem).
My Garmin Nuvi sometimes whines about needing a map update and the Garmin
Express app is only for Windows or Mac. No big deal.What I mainly use it
for it the speed. The studded tires I put on last week are 14" wheels and
the car came with 15" so the speedometer is slightly off. I'm used to
that. Jap bike speedometers always were optimistic so you mentally
subtract 5 or 10 mph from the needle.
So its NOT just Me! Good.
Many years ago, one of my sisters gave me one of those Naviman things
for Christmas.
I rarely use it because I usually know where I'm going but, often, I'd
be travelling with another sister who seems to be of the opinion 'If
you've got one, you might as well use it.'
And she keeps telling my how my Speed is going .... and I've worked out
my Speedo is reading about 4 or 5 kM/h low i.e. in a 100kM/H zone my
Speedo needs to be showing 104 or 105kM/H for the Naviman to show 100kM/H.
I usually put it down to my Tyres being under-inflated, so their
diameter is less so it takes more revolutions of the tyre to cover a specified distance.
Somehow, when I pull into a Servo for petrol, I keep forgetting to check
the tyre pressures. ;-P
I have at least two things that require Windows.
On Sun, 7 Dec 2025 14:37:25 -0500, Paul wrote:
The plastic baskets are electronically marked, and the detectors at the
store exit beep if you try to walk out with the plastic basket.
On 2025-12-08, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
I'll have to look more closely. I was surprised they had enough shrinkage >> for it to be a concern. The carts, otoh, easily convert to a Homeless
Hilux.
I, too, have noticed that many stores have a distinct shortage of handbaskets. I remember that back in the 1960s, I read about a study
that showed that people with shopping carts bought more than people
using handbaskets. This prompted stores to promote shopping carts.
The consumer groups suggested that it might be because people were more likely to use a cart if they knew on their way in that they were buying
more than would fit in a handbasket.
On 2025-12-08 14:20, Daniel70 wrote:
On 8/12/2025 6:33 am, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 7 Dec 2025 19:25:01 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Another thing is the TomTom tool. Sometimes I need to connect the thing >>>> to the computer and do something on the software (like enable debug so >>>> that customer service finds the problem).
My Garmin Nuvi sometimes whines about needing a map update and the
Garmin
Express app is only for Windows or Mac. No big deal.What I mainly use it >>> for it the speed. The studded tires I put on last week are 14" wheels
and
the car came with 15" so the speedometer is slightly off. I'm used to
that. Jap bike speedometers always were optimistic so you mentally
subtract 5 or 10 mph from the needle.
So its NOT just Me! Good.
Many years ago, one of my sisters gave me one of those Naviman things
for Christmas.
I rarely use it because I usually know where I'm going but, often, I'd
be travelling with another sister who seems to be of the opinion 'If
you've got one, you might as well use it.'
And she keeps telling my how my Speed is going .... and I've worked
out my Speedo is reading about 4 or 5 kM/h low i.e. in a 100kM/H zone
my Speedo needs to be showing 104 or 105kM/H for the Naviman to show
100kM/H.
I usually put it down to my Tyres being under-inflated, so their
diameter is less so it takes more revolutions of the tyre to cover a
specified distance.
Somehow, when I pull into a Servo for petrol, I keep forgetting to
check the tyre pressures. ;-P
No, this is intentional calibration of the car speedometer to 5
kilometres low. The reason is that if you see a road limit of 100Km/h
and you do drive at 100Km/h sharp, there is no possibility of you
driving just a bit above the limit and be fined. You could then sue the
car maker for having bad instrumentation that caused you to be fined.
No, I'm not driving one of those carts around for two items. I move fast
in stores and a cart would turn me into "sludge". The basket holds
enough to fill my backpack. (It's a commuter backpack, not a
back-country backpack.)
I usually put it down to my Tyres being under-inflated, so their
diameter is less so it takes more revolutions of the tyre to cover a specified distance.
No, this is intentional calibration of the car speedometer to 5
kilometres low. The reason is that if you see a road limit of 100Km/h
and you do drive at 100Km/h sharp, there is no possibility of you
driving just a bit above the limit and be fined. You could then sue the
car maker for having bad instrumentation that caused you to be fined.
On 8/12/2025 1:56 pm, c186282 wrote:
<Snip>
Have never seen any 'smart' ones ... just the basic models the
insane cat lady pushes down the street full of her junk.
You say 'Junk', she says 'Treasured Possessions"!! ;-P
On 8/12/2025 7:04 am, Paul wrote:
<Snip>
The carts where the battery is flat, they escape the corral and are
found lying about. It's important to change the battery on those,
because the brakes stop working when the battery is no good.
Paul
I wonder how these battery-powered carts work after they've been thrown
in the local River/Creek a couple of times. ;-P
On Tue, 9 Dec 2025 00:04:29 +1100, Daniel70 wrote:
On 8/12/2025 1:56 pm, c186282 wrote:
<Snip>
Have never seen any 'smart' ones ... just the basic models the
insane cat lady pushes down the street full of her junk.
You say 'Junk', she says 'Treasured Possessions"!! ;-P
I can't be judgmental. I'm surrounded by cables, microcontrollers, Dupont wires, and odd little sensors that would qualify me as a very strange
hoarder if viewed objectively.
On Mon, 8 Dec 2025 12:32:51 -0500, Paul wrote:
No, I'm not driving one of those carts around for two items. I move fast
in stores and a cart would turn me into "sludge". The basket holds
enough to fill my backpack. (It's a commuter backpack, not a
back-country backpack.)
I use a similar metric in the summer months. If it fits in a basket, it
ywill fit into the motorcycle saddle bags.
On Mon, 8 Dec 2025 14:59:12 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
No, this is intentional calibration of the car speedometer to 5
kilometres low. The reason is that if you see a road limit of 100Km/h
and you do drive at 100Km/h sharp, there is no possibility of you
driving just a bit above the limit and be fined. You could then sue the
car maker for having bad instrumentation that caused you to be fined.
That's the reason I've heard for Japanese bike speedometers being off. The speedometer in the Toyota is accurate when I'm running the 15" tires it's calibrated for.
On 12/8/25 17:23, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 8 Dec 2025 12:32:51 -0500, Paul wrote:
No, I'm not driving one of those carts around for two items. I move fast >>> in stores and a cart would turn me into "sludge". The basket holds
enough to fill my backpack. (It's a commuter backpack, not a
back-country backpack.)
I use a similar metric in the summer months. If it fits in a basket, it
ywill fit into the motorcycle saddle bags.
Don't motorcycle anymore, but I do still tend to
apply that metric :-)
Ah, got in my replacement laptop ... the MX utility
for creating a full live installable clone DID work,
brought everything over nicely.
Now I have to get used to a slightly different
keyboard again ....
Anyway, a quarter the weight/bulk of the ancient
Acer I'd upgraded in the interim.
Can't cuss that Acer though ... fast enough after
an SSD, built-in DVD drive and network plug :-)
New one is i3/gen-13 ... more than snappy enough.
Lots of little tweaks to make though.
Winders didn't run one millisecond before I obliterated
it with Linux. Did have to turn off Secure Boot - and
the only way to do that was to delete all the keys.
On Tue, 9 Dec 2025 00:20:38 +1100, Daniel70 wrote:
I usually put it down to my Tyres being under-inflated, so their
diameter is less so it takes more revolutions of the tyre to cover a
specified distance.
I don't think under inflation would change the diameter enough to throw
the speed off that much. In my case the diameter of the 14" wheels is noticeably less than the 15". I see that in the spring when I'm going back
to the 15". If I jack the car up enough so the 14" leaves the ground and I can remove it sometimes I have to jack a little more to get the 15" on.
On 12/8/25 17:41, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 8 Dec 2025 14:59:12 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
No, this is intentional calibration of the car speedometer to 5
kilometres low. The reason is that if you see a road limit of 100Km/h
and you do drive at 100Km/h sharp, there is no possibility of you
driving just a bit above the limit and be fined. You could then sue the
car maker for having bad instrumentation that caused you to be fined.
That's the reason I've heard for Japanese bike speedometers being off.
The
speedometer in the Toyota is accurate when I'm running the 15" tires it's
calibrated for.
Yep, tire diameter IS critical.
On Mon, 8 Dec 2025 23:52:48 +1100, Daniel70 wrote:
On 8/12/2025 7:04 am, Paul wrote:
<Snip>
The carts where the battery is flat, they escape the corral and are
found lying about. It's important to change the battery on those,
because the brakes stop working when the battery is no good.
Paul
I wonder how these battery-powered carts work after they've been thrown
in the local River/Creek a couple of times. ;-P
The real question is how a Cybertruck handle being thrown into a creek.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Montana/comments/1pg92le/trash_in_the_creek_up_by_white_sulfur/
On 12/8/25 17:46, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 9 Dec 2025 00:04:29 +1100, Daniel70 wrote:
On 8/12/2025 1:56 pm, c186282 wrote:
<Snip>
Have never seen any 'smart' ones ... just the basic models the
insane cat lady pushes down the street full of her junk.
You say 'Junk', she says 'Treasured Possessions"!! ;-P
I can't be judgmental. I'm surrounded by cables, microcontrollers, Dupont
wires, and odd little sensors that would qualify me as a very strange
hoarder if viewed objectively.
Ummm ... do you have conversations with them ? :-)
On 2025-12-08 14:20, Daniel70 wrote:
On 8/12/2025 6:33 am, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 7 Dec 2025 19:25:01 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Another thing is the TomTom tool. Sometimes I need to connect
the thing to the computer and do something on the software
(like enable debug so that customer service finds the
problem).
My Garmin Nuvi sometimes whines about needing a map update and
the Garmin Express app is only for Windows or Mac. No big
deal.What I mainly use it for it the speed. The studded tires I
put on last week are 14" wheels and the car came with 15" so the
speedometer is slightly off. I'm used to that. Jap bike
speedometers always were optimistic so you mentally subtract 5 or
10 mph from the needle.
So its NOT just Me! Good.
Many years ago, one of my sisters gave me one of those Naviman
things for Christmas.
I rarely use it because I usually know where I'm going but, often,
I'd be travelling with another sister who seems to be of the
opinion 'If you've got one, you might as well use it.'
And she keeps telling my how my Speed is going .... and I've worked
out my Speedo is reading about 4 or 5 kM/h low i.e. in a 100kM/H
zone my Speedo needs to be showing 104 or 105kM/H for the Naviman
to show 100kM/H.
I usually put it down to my Tyres being under-inflated, so their
diameter is less so it takes more revolutions of the tyre to cover
a specified distance.
Somehow, when I pull into a Servo for petrol, I keep forgetting to
check the tyre pressures. ;-P
No, this is intentional calibration of the car speedometer to 5
kilometres low. The reason is that if you see a road limit of 100Km/h
and you do drive at 100Km/h sharp, there is no possibility of you
driving just a bit above the limit and be fined. You could then sue
the car maker for having bad instrumentation that caused you to be
fined.
On 09/12/2025 08:35, c186282 wrote:
On 12/8/25 17:41, rbowman wrote:There is no 'tire diameter'
On Mon, 8 Dec 2025 14:59:12 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
No, this is intentional calibration of the car speedometer to 5
kilometres low. The reason is that if you see a road limit of 100Km/h
and you do drive at 100Km/h sharp, there is no possibility of you
driving just a bit above the limit and be fined. You could then sue the >>>> car maker for having bad instrumentation that caused you to be fined.
That's the reason I've heard for Japanese bike speedometers being
off. The
speedometer in the Toyota is accurate when I'm running the 15" tires
it's
calibrated for.
Yep, tire diameter IS critical.
Only circumference.
On 08/12/2025 22:39, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 9 Dec 2025 00:20:38 +1100, Daniel70 wrote:There is no such thing as diameter on a tyre. It isn't circular.
I usually put it down to my Tyres being under-inflated, so their
diameter is less so it takes more revolutions of the tyre to
cover a specified distance.
I don't think under inflation would change the diameter enough to
throw the speed off that much. In my case the diameter of the 14"
wheels is noticeably less than the 15". I see that in the spring
when I'm going back to the 15". If I jack the car up enough so the
14" leaves the ground and I can remove it sometimes I have to jack
a little more to get the 15" on.
Might as well ask yourself 'what is the diameter of a tank track'
What counts is circumference and the tyre is elastic enough to expand
a little under high pressure.
And to wear a little lower.
No, this is intentional calibration of the car speedometer to 5
kilometres low. The reason is that if you see a road limit of 100Km/h
and you do drive at 100Km/h sharp, there is no possibility of you
driving just a bit above the limit and be fined. You could then sue the
car maker for having bad instrumentation that caused you to be fined.
That's the reason I've heard for Japanese bike speedometers being off. The >> speedometer in the Toyota is accurate when I'm running the 16" tires it's
calibrated for.
Yep, tire diameter IS critical.
If you have a GPS unit it wouldn't hurt
to check speed after getting new rear
tires, just in case.
Aside from that, DO have experience with
'agricultural' radar-based speed detectors,
indestructible black boxes - you point 'em
straight down - RS232.
On Mon, 8 Dec 2025 14:59:12 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:GPS accuracy is 10 to 16 feet. So the slower the vehicle is going the
No, this is intentional calibration of the car speedometer to 5
kilometres low. The reason is that if you see a road limit of 100Km/h
and you do drive at 100Km/h sharp, there is no possibility of you
driving just a bit above the limit and be fined. You could then sue the >>>> car maker for having bad instrumentation that caused you to be fined.
On 12/8/25 17:41, rbowman wrote:
That's the reason I've heard for Japanese bike speedometers being off. The >>> speedometer in the Toyota is accurate when I'm running the 16" tires it's >>> calibrated for.
On 2025-12-09, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
Yep, tire diameter IS critical.
If you have a GPS unit it wouldn't hurt
to check speed after getting new rear
tires, just in case.
Aside from that, DO have experience with
'agricultural' radar-based speed detectors,
indestructible black boxes - you point 'em
straight down - RS232.
This sounds similar to the marine speedometer I was looking into for a client. Delivers a stream of standardized ASCII output called NMEA data.
https://www.gpsworld.com/what-exactly-is-gps-nmea-data/ https://receiverhelp.trimble.com/alloy-gnss/en-us/NMEA-0183messages_MessageOverview.html
Our client was a speedboat racing team.
On 9/12/2025 12:59 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-08 14:20, Daniel70 wrote:
Hmm! Back in the day, friends who were Policemen told me that, using a
Speed Gun, they usually allow 2-3km .... just to be sure.
On 9/12/2025 9:09 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/12/2025 08:35, c186282 wrote:
On 12/8/25 17:41, rbowman wrote:There is no 'tire diameter'
On Mon, 8 Dec 2025 14:59:12 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
No, this is intentional calibration of the car speedometer to 5That's the reason I've heard for Japanese bike speedometers being
kilometres low. The reason is that if you see a road limit of 100Km/h >>>>> and you do drive at 100Km/h sharp, there is no possibility of you
driving just a bit above the limit and be fined. You could then sue >>>>> the
car maker for having bad instrumentation that caused you to be fined. >>>>
off. The
speedometer in the Toyota is accurate when I'm running the 15" tires
it's
calibrated for.
Yep, tire diameter IS critical.
Only circumference.
.... and, as circumference is dependant on diameter/radius ......
On 9/12/2025 9:08 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/12/2025 22:39, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 9 Dec 2025 00:20:38 +1100, Daniel70 wrote:There is no such thing as diameter on a tyre. It isn't circular.
I usually put it down to my Tyres being under-inflated, so their
diameter is less so it takes more revolutions of the tyre to
cover a specified distance.
I don't think under inflation would change the diameter enough to
throw the speed off that much. In my case the diameter of the 14"
wheels is noticeably less than the 15". I see that in the spring
when I'm going back to the 15". If I jack the car up enough so the
14" leaves the ground and I can remove it sometimes I have to jack
a little more to get the 15" on.
Might as well ask yourself 'what is the diameter of a tank track'
What counts is circumference and the tyre is elastic enough to expand
a little under high pressure.
.... and that pressure would get higher due to usage heating the tyre.
And to wear a little lower.
... which would reduce the tyres diameter, so decreasing the Ground speed.
On Sun, 7 Dec 2025 14:37:25 -0500, Paul wrote:
The plastic baskets are electronically marked, and the detectors at the
store exit beep if you try to walk out with the plastic basket.
On 2025-12-08, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
I'll have to look more closely. I was surprised they had enough shrinkage
for it to be a concern. The carts, otoh, easily convert to a Homeless
Hilux.
I, too, have noticed that many stores have a distinct shortage of handbaskets. I remember that back in the 1960s, I read about a study
that showed that people with shopping carts bought more than people
using handbaskets. This prompted stores to promote shopping carts.
The consumer groups suggested that it might be because people were more likely to use a cart if they knew on their way in that they were buying
more than would fit in a handbasket.
GPS accuracy is 10 to 16 feet. So the slower the vehicle is going the more imprecise that speed, as it is dependent on the accuracy of the starting position and the ending position. The time interval is also a factor in the accuracy of the speed by GPS. ie at 60MPH, the car travels
520 feet per minute, so 10 feet on the starting and ending positions has more affect than if the speed was at 30MPH or 1040 feet. These number could be higher depending on the interference in the area of the
position. It is best to put the numbers in a spreadsheet to understand
the effect.
The speed detecting radar is accurate to 1 to 2 miles per hour in ideal conditions. In practice I suspect that if you stay within 10% of the speed, it is questionable if the radar detector can definitely say you
are over the speed limit. (10% Based on actual experience with many electronic instruments) Again there are many variables that affect the measurement of the speed detecting device.
On Tue, 12/9/2025 3:30 AM, c186282 wrote:
NOTE: We suggest removing the supervisor password immediately after enabling Secure Boot.
If you choose not to remove your supervisor password,
make sure you write it down for future use.
"
I'd heard something about this before, that there was something
on a laptop, that would not work unless you set the Supervisor password first.
Paul
On 09/12/2025 11:57, Daniel70 wrote:
On 9/12/2025 9:08 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/12/2025 22:39, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 9 Dec 2025 00:20:38 +1100, Daniel70 wrote:There is no such thing as diameter on a tyre. It isn't circular.
I usually put it down to my Tyres being under-inflated, so their
diameter is less so it takes more revolutions of the tyre to
cover a specified distance.
I don't think under inflation would change the diameter enough to
throw the speed off that much. In my case the diameter of the 14"
wheels is noticeably less than the 15". I see that in the spring
when I'm going back to the 15". If I jack the car up enough so the
14" leaves the ground and I can remove it sometimes I have to jack
a little more to get the 15" on.
Might as well ask yourself 'what is the diameter of a tank track'
What counts is circumference and the tyre is elastic enough to expand
a little under high pressure.
.... and that pressure would get higher due to usage heating the tyre.
And to wear a little lower.
... which would reduce the tyres diameter, so decreasing the Ground
speed.
THE TYRE HAS NO DIAMETER., It is not circular.
GPS accuracy is 10 to 16 feet. So the slower the vehicle is going the
more imprecise that speed, as it is dependent on the accuracy of the
starting position and the ending position. The time interval is also a
factor in the accuracy of the speed by GPS. ie at 60MPH, the car travels
520 feet per minute, so 10 feet on the starting and ending positions has
more affect than if the speed was at 30MPH or 1040 feet. These number
could be higher depending on the interference in the area of the
position. It is best to put the numbers in a spreadsheet to understand
the effect.
On 2025-12-08 14:55, Lars Poulsen wrote:
On Sun, 7 Dec 2025 14:37:25 -0500, Paul wrote:
The plastic baskets are electronically marked, and the detectors at the >>>> store exit beep if you try to walk out with the plastic basket.
On 2025-12-08, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
I'll have to look more closely. I was surprised they had enough
shrinkage
for it to be a concern. The carts, otoh, easily convert to a Homeless
Hilux.
I, too, have noticed that many stores have a distinct shortage of
handbaskets. I remember that back in the 1960s, I read about a study
that showed that people with shopping carts bought more than people
using handbaskets. This prompted stores to promote shopping carts.
The consumer groups suggested that it might be because people were more
likely to use a cart if they knew on their way in that they were buying
more than would fit in a handbasket.
This days, I shop with the reusable bag that they told us to use instead
of one use plastic bags. That way, I know how heavy my bag is getting,
so that I can walk back home.
On 9/12/2025 9:08 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/12/2025 22:39, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 9 Dec 2025 00:20:38 +1100, Daniel70 wrote:There is no such thing as diameter on a tyre. It isn't circular.
I usually put it down to my Tyres being under-inflated, so their
diameter is less so it takes more revolutions of the tyre to cover
a specified distance.
I don't think under inflation would change the diameter enough to
throw the speed off that much. In my case the diameter of the 14"
wheels is noticeably less than the 15". I see that in the spring
when I'm going back to the 15". If I jack the car up enough so the
14" leaves the ground and I can remove it sometimes I have to jack
a little more to get the 15" on.
Might as well ask yourself 'what is the diameter of a tank track'
What counts is circumference and the tyre is elastic enough to
expand a little under high pressure.
.... and that pressure would get higher due to usage heating the tyre.
And to wear a little lower.
... which would reduce the tyres diameter, so decreasing the Ground speed.
On 2025-12-09 15:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/12/2025 11:57, Daniel70 wrote:
On 9/12/2025 9:08 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/12/2025 22:39, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 9 Dec 2025 00:20:38 +1100, Daniel70 wrote:There is no such thing as diameter on a tyre. It isn't circular.
I usually put it down to my Tyres being under-inflated, so their
diameter is less so it takes more revolutions of the tyre to
cover a specified distance.
I don't think under inflation would change the diameter enough to
throw the speed off that much. In my case the diameter of the 14"
wheels is noticeably less than the 15". I see that in the spring
when I'm going back to the 15". If I jack the car up enough so the
14" leaves the ground and I can remove it sometimes I have to jack
a little more to get the 15" on.
Might as well ask yourself 'what is the diameter of a tank track'
What counts is circumference and the tyre is elastic enough to expand
a little under high pressure.
.... and that pressure would get higher due to usage heating the tyre.
And to wear a little lower.
... which would reduce the tyres diameter, so decreasing the Ground
speed.
THE TYRE HAS NO DIAMETER., It is not circular.
It doesn't matter. We can calculate it.
On 09/12/2025 14:50, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-09 15:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:No you cannot.
On 09/12/2025 11:57, Daniel70 wrote:
On 9/12/2025 9:08 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/12/2025 22:39, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 9 Dec 2025 00:20:38 +1100, Daniel70 wrote:There is no such thing as diameter on a tyre. It isn't circular.
I usually put it down to my Tyres being under-inflated, so their >>>>>>> diameter is less so it takes more revolutions of the tyre to cover >>>>>>> a specified distance.
I don't think under inflation would change the diameter enough to
throw the speed off that much. In my case the diameter of the 14"
wheels is noticeably less than the 15". I see that in the spring
when I'm going back to the 15". If I jack the car up enough so the >>>>>> 14" leaves the ground and I can remove it sometimes I have to jack >>>>>> a little more to get the 15" on.
Might as well ask yourself 'what is the diameter of a tank track'
What counts is circumference and the tyre is elastic enough to
expand a little under high pressure.
.... and that pressure would get higher due to usage heating the
tyre.
And to wear a little lower.
... which would reduce the tyres diameter, so decreasing the Ground
speed.
THE TYRE HAS NO DIAMETER., It is not circular.
It doesn't matter. We can calculate it.
Any more than you can calculate the 'diameter' of a tank tread.
You might choose to evaluate (circumference over pi), but that is just a number that has no meaning in this context. There is no physical
dimension that corresponds to it
On 12/8/25 17:41, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 8 Dec 2025 14:59:12 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
No, this is intentional calibration of the car speedometer to 5
kilometres low. The reason is that if you see a road limit of 100Km/h
and you do drive at 100Km/h sharp, there is no possibility of you
driving just a bit above the limit and be fined. You could then sue
the car maker for having bad instrumentation that caused you to be
fined.
That's the reason I've heard for Japanese bike speedometers being off.
The speedometer in the Toyota is accurate when I'm running the 15"
tires it's calibrated for.
Yep, tire diameter IS critical.
If you have a GPS unit it wouldn't hurt to check speed after getting
new rear tires, just in case.
In the UK we have little 'this is your speed!' displays in green or red depending on whether you are exceeding the limit or not.
These agree EXACTLY with my Tomtom Go speeds, derived from GPS and are always around 7% lower then the speedometer reads.
On every car I have tried it on.
This sounds similar to the marine speedometer I was looking into for a client. Delivers a stream of standardized ASCII output called NMEA data.NMEA-0183messages_MessageOverview.html
https://www.gpsworld.com/what-exactly-is-gps-nmea-data/ https://receiverhelp.trimble.com/alloy-gnss/en-us/
Our client was a speedboat racing team.
Winders didn't run one millisecond before I obliterated it with
Linux. Did have to turn off Secure Boot - and the only way to do that
was to delete all the keys.
I'd heard something about this before, that there was something on a
laptop, that would not work unless you set the Supervisor password
first.
In the UK we have little 'this is your speed!' displays in green or
red depending on whether you are exceeding the limit or not.
These agree EXACTLY with my Tomtom Go speeds, derived from GPS and
are always around 7% lower then the speedometer reads.
On every car I have tried it on.
On 9/12/2025 5:41 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 12/8/25 17:46, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 9 Dec 2025 00:04:29 +1100, Daniel70 wrote:
On 8/12/2025 1:56 pm, c186282 wrote:
<Snip>
Have never seen any 'smart' ones ... just the basic models the >>>>> insane cat lady pushes down the street full of her junk.
You say 'Junk', she says 'Treasured Possessions"!! ;-P
I can't be judgmental. I'm surrounded by cables, microcontrollers,
Dupont wires, and odd little sensors that would qualify me as a very
strange hoarder if viewed objectively.
Ummm ... do you have conversations with them ? :-)
Do "insane cat lady" have conversations with them ?
Oh, hang on, she probably does. ;-P
On Tue, 9 Dec 2025 14:13:17 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
In the UK we have little 'this is your speed!' displays in green or red
depending on whether you are exceeding the limit or not.
These agree EXACTLY with my Tomtom Go speeds, derived from GPS and are
always around 7% lower then the speedometer reads.
On every car I have tried it on.
I pass one of those frequently and it matches both the Garmin Nuvi and the Toyota speedometer when I am running the OEM tires.
The sign is at the bottom of a short hill and flashes if you exceed 35
mph. I used to try to get it flashing with my bicycle but never quite made it. They finally moved it further out on the flat making it impossible,
for me at least. The bike's gearing didn't help either.
On Tue, 9 Dec 2025 04:12:23 -0500, Paul wrote:
I'd heard something about this before, that there was something on a
laptop, that would not work unless you set the Supervisor password
first.
I disabled secure boot on the Lenovo I recently bought and have no
intention of ever enabling it. The damn thing kept bypassing the
EndeavourOS USB stick until I figured out the problem. Anything that considers Linux to be malicious software can go to hell.
On Tue, 9 Dec 2025 03:35:01 -0500, c186282 wrote:
On 12/8/25 17:41, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 8 Dec 2025 14:59:12 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
No, this is intentional calibration of the car speedometer to 5
kilometres low. The reason is that if you see a road limit of 100Km/h
and you do drive at 100Km/h sharp, there is no possibility of you
driving just a bit above the limit and be fined. You could then sue
the car maker for having bad instrumentation that caused you to be
fined.
That's the reason I've heard for Japanese bike speedometers being off.
The speedometer in the Toyota is accurate when I'm running the 15"
tires it's calibrated for.
Yep, tire diameter IS critical.
If you have a GPS unit it wouldn't hurt to check speed after getting
new rear tires, just in case.
In the case of bikes the speedometer drive is often from the front wheel >hub.
On Tue, 12/9/2025 3:30 AM, c186282 wrote:
On 12/8/25 17:23, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 8 Dec 2025 12:32:51 -0500, Paul wrote:
No, I'm not driving one of those carts around for two items. I move fast >>>> in stores and a cart would turn me into "sludge". The basket holds
enough to fill my backpack. (It's a commuter backpack, not a
back-country backpack.)
I use a similar metric in the summer months. If it fits in a basket, it
ywill fit into the motorcycle saddle bags.
Don't motorcycle anymore, but I do still tend to
apply that metric :-)
Ah, got in my replacement laptop ... the MX utility
for creating a full live installable clone DID work,
brought everything over nicely.
Now I have to get used to a slightly different
keyboard again ....
Anyway, a quarter the weight/bulk of the ancient
Acer I'd upgraded in the interim.
Can't cuss that Acer though ... fast enough after
an SSD, built-in DVD drive and network plug :-)
New one is i3/gen-13 ... more than snappy enough.
Lots of little tweaks to make though.
Winders didn't run one millisecond before I obliterated
it with Linux. Did have to turn off Secure Boot - and
the only way to do that was to delete all the keys.
"Enable or Disable Secure Boot on an Acer notebook
By Mary-Acer
Last Updated: Oct 8, 2025
Secure Boot is a feature designed to prevent malicious software and unauthorized media from
loading during the boot process. This option is enabled by default, but can be turned off
in UEFI / BIOS. Use the instructions below to enable or disable secure boot.
Press and hold the power button for 10 seconds
to completely shutoff your computer.
Power on the system. As soon as the first logo screen appears,
immediately press F2 to enter the BIOS.
Use the right arrow key to select Security.
Use the down arrow key to highlight Set Supervisor Password and press Enter.
Create a password and press Enter.
Retype the password to confirm and press Enter again.
Use the right arrow key to select Boot.
Press the down arrow key to select Secure Boot and press Enter.
With the arrow key, highlight Disabled and press Enter.
Press the F10 key and select Yes to save the changes and exit the BIOS.
NOTE: We suggest removing the supervisor password immediately after enabling Secure Boot.
If you choose not to remove your supervisor password,
make sure you write it down for future use.
"
I'd heard something about this before, that there was something
on a laptop, that would not work unless you set the Supervisor password first.
On 09/12/2025 08:35, c186282 wrote:
On 12/8/25 17:41, rbowman wrote:There is no 'tire diameter'
On Mon, 8 Dec 2025 14:59:12 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
No, this is intentional calibration of the car speedometer to 5
kilometres low. The reason is that if you see a road limit of 100Km/h
and you do drive at 100Km/h sharp, there is no possibility of you
driving just a bit above the limit and be fined. You could then sue the >>>> car maker for having bad instrumentation that caused you to be fined.
That's the reason I've heard for Japanese bike speedometers being
off. The
speedometer in the Toyota is accurate when I'm running the 15" tires
it's
calibrated for.
Yep, tire diameter IS critical.
Only circumference.
On 9/12/2025 5:41 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 12/8/25 17:46, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 9 Dec 2025 00:04:29 +1100, Daniel70 wrote:
On 8/12/2025 1:56 pm, c186282 wrote:
<Snip>
Have never seen any 'smart' ones ... just the basic models the >>>>> insane cat lady pushes down the street full of her junk.
You say 'Junk', she says 'Treasured Possessions"!! ;-P
I can't be judgmental. I'm surrounded by cables, microcontrollers,
Dupont
wires, and odd little sensors that would qualify me as a very strange
hoarder if viewed objectively.
Ummm ... do you have conversations with them ? :-)
Do "insane cat lady" have conversations with them ?
Oh, hang on, she probably does. ;-P
On my HP, Linux WOULD NOT install with Secure Boot active,
one message even named SB as the big problem.
There was a toggle for SB ... but on reboot it would
re-enable. Had to get rid of the keys, THEN it stuck.
SB isn't necessarily *evil* ... but there are times it
just Gets In The Way, esp if you're not doing Winders.
I'll look into it some more. MIGHT be I can generate
new keys and re-enable ... maybe .......
As for laptops (and maybe desktops (more rare now))
they seem to be getting more and more STUPID. There
were surprisingly few BIOS options. Sometimes they
are 'hidden' behind an obscure prompt or require
a secret key to be held or something ... and then
sometimes there is just NO fine-tuning anymore.
"WE know what you want/need !".
On 9/12/2025 12:59 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-08 14:20, Daniel70 wrote:
On 8/12/2025 6:33 am, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 7 Dec 2025 19:25:01 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Another thing is the TomTom tool. Sometimes I need to connect
the thing to the computer and do something on the software
(like enable debug so that customer service finds the
problem).
My Garmin Nuvi sometimes whines about needing a map update and
the Garmin Express app is only for Windows or Mac. No big
deal.What I mainly use it for it the speed. The studded tires I
put on last week are 14" wheels and the car came with 15" so the
speedometer is slightly off. I'm used to that. Jap bike
speedometers always were optimistic so you mentally subtract 5 or
10 mph from the needle.
So its NOT just Me! Good.
Many years ago, one of my sisters gave me one of those Naviman
things for Christmas.
I rarely use it because I usually know where I'm going but, often,
I'd be travelling with another sister who seems to be of the
opinion 'If you've got one, you might as well use it.'
And she keeps telling my how my Speed is going .... and I've worked
out my Speedo is reading about 4 or 5 kM/h low i.e. in a 100kM/H
zone my Speedo needs to be showing 104 or 105kM/H for the Naviman
to show 100kM/H.
I usually put it down to my Tyres being under-inflated, so their
diameter is less so it takes more revolutions of the tyre to cover
a specified distance.
Somehow, when I pull into a Servo for petrol, I keep forgetting to
check the tyre pressures. ;-P
No, this is intentional calibration of the car speedometer to 5
kilometres low. The reason is that if you see a road limit of 100Km/h
and you do drive at 100Km/h sharp, there is no possibility of you
driving just a bit above the limit and be fined. You could then sue
the car maker for having bad instrumentation that caused you to be
fined.
Hmm! Back in the day, friends who were Policemen told me that, using a
Speed Gun, they usually allow 2-3km .... just to be sure.
On 9/12/2025 9:09 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/12/2025 08:35, c186282 wrote:
On 12/8/25 17:41, rbowman wrote:There is no 'tire diameter'
On Mon, 8 Dec 2025 14:59:12 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
No, this is intentional calibration of the car speedometer to 5That's the reason I've heard for Japanese bike speedometers being
kilometres low. The reason is that if you see a road limit of 100Km/h >>>>> and you do drive at 100Km/h sharp, there is no possibility of you
driving just a bit above the limit and be fined. You could then sue >>>>> the
car maker for having bad instrumentation that caused you to be fined. >>>>
off. The
speedometer in the Toyota is accurate when I'm running the 15" tires
it's
calibrated for.
Yep, tire diameter IS critical.
Only circumference.
.... and, as circumference is dependant on diameter/radius ......
On 09/12/2025 14:50, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-09 15:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:No you cannot.
On 09/12/2025 11:57, Daniel70 wrote:
On 9/12/2025 9:08 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/12/2025 22:39, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 9 Dec 2025 00:20:38 +1100, Daniel70 wrote:There is no such thing as diameter on a tyre. It isn't circular.
I usually put it down to my Tyres being under-inflated, so their >>>>>>> diameter is less so it takes more revolutions of the tyre to
cover a specified distance.
I don't think under inflation would change the diameter enough to
throw the speed off that much. In my case the diameter of the 14"
wheels is noticeably less than the 15". I see that in the spring
when I'm going back to the 15". If I jack the car up enough so the >>>>>> 14" leaves the ground and I can remove it sometimes I have to jack >>>>>> a little more to get the 15" on.
Might as well ask yourself 'what is the diameter of a tank track'
What counts is circumference and the tyre is elastic enough to expand >>>>> a little under high pressure.
.... and that pressure would get higher due to usage heating the tyre. >>>>
And to wear a little lower.
... which would reduce the tyres diameter, so decreasing the Ground
speed.
THE TYRE HAS NO DIAMETER., It is not circular.
It doesn't matter. We can calculate it.
Any more than you can calculate the 'diameter' of a tank tread.
You might choose to evaluate (circumference over pi), but that is just a number that has no meaning in this context. There is no physical
dimension that corresponds to it
On Mon, 8 Dec 2025 14:59:12 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
No, this is intentional calibration of the car speedometer to 5
kilometres low. The reason is that if you see a road limit of 100Km/h
and you do drive at 100Km/h sharp, there is no possibility of you
driving just a bit above the limit and be fined. You could then sue the >>>> car maker for having bad instrumentation that caused you to be fined.
On 12/8/25 17:41, rbowman wrote:
That's the reason I've heard for Japanese bike speedometers being off. The >>> speedometer in the Toyota is accurate when I'm running the 16" tires it's >>> calibrated for.
On 2025-12-09, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
Yep, tire diameter IS critical.
If you have a GPS unit it wouldn't hurt
to check speed after getting new rear
tires, just in case.
Aside from that, DO have experience with
'agricultural' radar-based speed detectors,
indestructible black boxes - you point 'em
straight down - RS232.
This sounds similar to the marine speedometer I was looking into for a client. Delivers a stream of standardized ASCII output called NMEA data.
https://www.gpsworld.com/what-exactly-is-gps-nmea-data/ https://receiverhelp.trimble.com/alloy-gnss/en-us/NMEA-0183messages_MessageOverview.html
Our client was a speedboat racing team.
On 12/9/25 06:10, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-08 14:55, Lars Poulsen wrote:
On Sun, 7 Dec 2025 14:37:25 -0500, Paul wrote:
The consumer groups suggested that it might be because people were more
likely to use a cart if they knew on their way in that they were buying
more than would fit in a handbasket.
This days, I shop with the reusable bag that they told us to use
instead of one use plastic bags. That way, I know how heavy my bag is
getting, so that I can walk back home.
Here shopping into your own bag is widely discouraged.
I can not
use a hand basket which I used to do because of my use of a cane
following a broken ankle.
One or two stores use smaller carts which are very much easier to
manuver thru the aisles of stores but most use the large family
carts only.
I bought more than I should yesterday which became
clear as i walked 4 blocks 2 at downhillk slopes where I staggered frequently. Spent most of the rest of the day getting over that
walk with lots of acetominophen(generic for Tylenol's active
ingredient). Still uncomfortable today. The weight of the bag was
very low maybe 5 lbs.
On my regular market days my friend and driver carries the bag up the
stairs for me. Still tiring getting them into apartment and groceries
put away.
bliss - ancient of days and exhausted as well.
On 12/9/25 06:53, Daniel70 wrote:
On 9/12/2025 9:09 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/12/2025 08:35, c186282 wrote:
On 12/8/25 17:41, rbowman wrote:There is no 'tire diameter'
On Mon, 8 Dec 2025 14:59:12 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
No, this is intentional calibration of the car speedometer to 5That's the reason I've heard for Japanese bike speedometers being
kilometres low. The reason is that if you see a road limit of 100Km/h >>>>>> and you do drive at 100Km/h sharp, there is no possibility of you
driving just a bit above the limit and be fined. You could then sue >>>>>> the
car maker for having bad instrumentation that caused you to be fined. >>>>>
off. The
speedometer in the Toyota is accurate when I'm running the 15" tires >>>>> it's
calibrated for.
Yep, tire diameter IS critical.
Only circumference.
.... and, as circumference is dependant on diameter/radius ......
Exactly.
Pi*D = circumference
In comp.os.linux.misc c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
On 12/9/25 06:53, Daniel70 wrote:
On 9/12/2025 9:09 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/12/2025 08:35, c186282 wrote:
On 12/8/25 17:41, rbowman wrote:There is no 'tire diameter'
On Mon, 8 Dec 2025 14:59:12 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
No, this is intentional calibration of the car speedometer to 5That's the reason I've heard for Japanese bike speedometers being
kilometres low. The reason is that if you see a road limit of 100Km/h >>>>>>> and you do drive at 100Km/h sharp, there is no possibility of you >>>>>>> driving just a bit above the limit and be fined. You could then sue >>>>>>> the
car maker for having bad instrumentation that caused you to be fined. >>>>>>
off. The
speedometer in the Toyota is accurate when I'm running the 15" tires >>>>>> it's
calibrated for.
Yep, tire diameter IS critical.
Only circumference.
.... and, as circumference is dependant on diameter/radius ......
Exactly.
Pi*D = circumference
Yes, for a perfect circle.
But a tire under load is no longer a perfect circle,
so if you use the
loaded "radius" or "diameter" (even though neither really applies to a "non-circular shape") you'll come up short for the "distance around the outside of the tire".
I thought they mostly stopped doing that by the middle of the 1980s.
After that I used to see the speedo drive coming off of the rear ABS
ring, but these days I see it coming off of the transmission, fully electronic, of course. The days of spinning a flexible cable are long
gone.
On 12/9/25 22:05, Rich wrote:
In comp.os.linux.misc c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
On 12/9/25 06:53, Daniel70 wrote:
On 9/12/2025 9:09 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/12/2025 08:35, c186282 wrote:
On 12/8/25 17:41, rbowman wrote:There is no 'tire diameter'
On Mon, 8 Dec 2025 14:59:12 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
No, this is intentional calibration of the car speedometer to 5 >>>>>>>> kilometres low. The reason is that if you see a road limit of 100Km/h >>>>>>>> and you do drive at 100Km/h sharp, there is no possibility of you >>>>>>>> driving just a bit above the limit and be fined. You could then sue >>>>>>>> theThat's the reason I've heard for Japanese bike speedometers being >>>>>>> off. The
car maker for having bad instrumentation that caused you to be fined. >>>>>>>
speedometer in the Toyota is accurate when I'm running the 15" tires >>>>>>> it's
calibrated for.
Yep, tire diameter IS critical.
Only circumference.
.... and, as circumference is dependant on diameter/radius ......
Exactly.
Pi*D = circumference
Yes, for a perfect circle.
But a tire under load is no longer a perfect circle,
Familiar with the phrase "Good Enough ..." :-)
so if you use the
loaded "radius" or "diameter" (even though neither really applies to a
"non-circular shape") you'll come up short for the "distance around the
outside of the tire".
Only a little.
On 2025-12-09 16:56, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 12/9/25 06:10, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-08 14:55, Lars Poulsen wrote:
On Sun, 7 Dec 2025 14:37:25 -0500, Paul wrote:
The consumer groups suggested that it might be because people were more >>>> likely to use a cart if they knew on their way in that they were buying >>>> more than would fit in a handbasket.
This days, I shop with the reusable bag that they told us to use
These days. oops.
instead of one use plastic bags. That way, I know how heavy my bag is
getting, so that I can walk back home.
Here shopping into your own bag is widely discouraged.
Fortunately, they can say nothing about it. Even more, my usual bag has another bag inside, one of those insulated for frozen or cold foods, and inside, I put a small bottle (⅓litre) with frozen salted water, so that the guard at the entrance can see I enter with a bag that already has
some weight in it.
After depositing everything on the rubber belt at the cashier, I make a
show of looking the bag is empty, or show it to the employee.
They charge for each plastic bag you get on the exit cashier, and they encourage people to buy reusable bags. Thus, we have to enter the shop
with empty reusable bags. It is their doing, not ours. Well, government regulation, actually. Pushed by the EU.
I can not use a hand basket which I used to do because of my use of a
cane following a broken ankle.
Ah.
One or two stores use smaller carts which are very much easier to
manuver thru the aisles of stores but most use the large family
carts only.
Yes, my usual supermarket has two cart sizes.
And few years back there were baskets with wheels.
I bought more than I should yesterday which became
clear as i walked 4 blocks 2 at downhillk slopes where I staggered
frequently. Spent most of the rest of the day getting over that walk
with lots of acetominophen(generic for Tylenol's active ingredient).
Still uncomfortable today. The weight of the bag was
very low maybe 5 lbs.
Ow.
Sometimes I use a backpack, and some times my own trolley. When I buy
milk, for instance.
https://share.google/NreDLQi7p1sjP1KPY
Otherwise, I drive.
They charge for each plastic bag you get on the exit cashier, and they encourage people to buy reusable bags. Thus, we have to enter the shop
with empty reusable bags. It is their doing, not ours. Well, government regulation, actually. Pushed by the EU.
On Wed, 10 Dec 2025 03:38:46 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
They charge for each plastic bag you get on the exit cashier, and they
encourage people to buy reusable bags. Thus, we have to enter the shop
with empty reusable bags. It is their doing, not ours. Well, government
regulation, actually. Pushed by the EU.
They encourage people to use them in the US. I have several but seldom
have them with me. Besides, the plastic bags come in handy when cleaning
the litter box.
In comp.os.linux.misc c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
On 12/9/25 22:05, Rich wrote:
In comp.os.linux.misc c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
On 12/9/25 06:53, Daniel70 wrote:
On 9/12/2025 9:09 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/12/2025 08:35, c186282 wrote:
On 12/8/25 17:41, rbowman wrote:There is no 'tire diameter'
On Mon, 8 Dec 2025 14:59:12 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
No, this is intentional calibration of the car speedometer to 5 >>>>>>>>> kilometres low. The reason is that if you see a road limit of 100Km/h >>>>>>>>> and you do drive at 100Km/h sharp, there is no possibility of you >>>>>>>>> driving just a bit above the limit and be fined. You could then sue >>>>>>>>> theThat's the reason I've heard for Japanese bike speedometers being >>>>>>>> off. The
car maker for having bad instrumentation that caused you to be fined. >>>>>>>>
speedometer in the Toyota is accurate when I'm running the 15" tires >>>>>>>> it's
calibrated for.
Yep, tire diameter IS critical.
Only circumference.
.... and, as circumference is dependant on diameter/radius ......
Exactly.
Pi*D = circumference
Yes, for a perfect circle.
But a tire under load is no longer a perfect circle,
Familiar with the phrase "Good Enough ..." :-)
so if you use the
loaded "radius" or "diameter" (even though neither really applies to a
"non-circular shape") you'll come up short for the "distance around the
outside of the tire".
Only a little.
If you plan to use that distance to measure your speed, that little
will amount to a nice error in your final speed number you calculate.
And this subthread got started by discussing speed measurements.
On 2025-12-09 20:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/12/2025 14:50, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-09 15:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:No you cannot.
On 09/12/2025 11:57, Daniel70 wrote:
On 9/12/2025 9:08 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/12/2025 22:39, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 9 Dec 2025 00:20:38 +1100, Daniel70 wrote:There is no such thing as diameter on a tyre. It isn't circular.
I usually put it down to my Tyres being under-inflated, so their >>>>>>>> diameter is less so it takes more revolutions of the tyre to
cover a specified distance.
I don't think under inflation would change the diameter enough to >>>>>>> throw the speed off that much. In my case the diameter of the 14" >>>>>>> wheels is noticeably less than the 15". I see that in the spring >>>>>>> when I'm going back to the 15". If I jack the car up enough so the >>>>>>> 14" leaves the ground and I can remove it sometimes I have to jack >>>>>>> a little more to get the 15" on.
Might as well ask yourself 'what is the diameter of a tank track'
What counts is circumference and the tyre is elastic enough to expand >>>>>> a little under high pressure.
.... and that pressure would get higher due to usage heating the tyre. >>>>>
And to wear a little lower.
... which would reduce the tyres diameter, so decreasing the Ground >>>>> speed.
THE TYRE HAS NO DIAMETER., It is not circular.
It doesn't matter. We can calculate it.
Yes, we can. It is a formula with π in it.
Any more than you can calculate the 'diameter' of a tank tread.
You might choose to evaluate (circumference over pi), but that is just
a number that has no meaning in this context. There is no physical
dimension that corresponds to it
Irrelevant.
We measure the actual distance travelled for a number of turns. From
that we calculate the effective circumference, and from that, the
effective radius.
None of those have to be the apparent length seen by a measuring tape on
the wheel.
On Wed, 10 Dec 2025 03:38:46 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
They charge for each plastic bag you get on the exit cashier, and they
encourage people to buy reusable bags. Thus, we have to enter the shop
with empty reusable bags. It is their doing, not ours. Well, government
regulation, actually. Pushed by the EU.
They encourage people to use them in the US. I have several but seldom
have them with me. Besides, the plastic bags come in handy when cleaning
the litter box.
On 12/9/25 19:30, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 10 Dec 2025 03:38:46 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
They charge for each plastic bag you get on the exit cashier, and they
encourage people to buy reusable bags. Thus, we have to enter the shop
with empty reusable bags. It is their doing, not ours. Well, government
regulation, actually. Pushed by the EU.
They encourage people to use them in the US. I have several but seldom
have them with me. Besides, the plastic bags come in handy when cleaning
the litter box.
Maybe they encourage people to use them in your vicinity, city, county, state but in
San Francisco City, County of San Francisco, State of California we are discouraged from
single use bags. As far as it goes when I read in one of those
underground newspapers,
possibly the LA Star, that animal were badly affected by the use of such bags I started
buying reusable bags, and hold my self-bestowed title of the Old Bag
with a Bag Full of
Bags. That started about 45 years back.
So nice paper bags at the stores I shop at though I seldom use them.
The plastic bags for fruit and vegetable are made out of starch based material.
I hear that there are problems with those as they disintegrate but they go into
landfills where they can do it peacefully.
On Tue, 12/9/2025 8:15 PM, c186282 wrote:
On my HP, Linux WOULD NOT install with Secure Boot active,
one message even named SB as the big problem.
There was a toggle for SB ... but on reboot it would
re-enable. Had to get rid of the keys, THEN it stuck.
SB isn't necessarily *evil* ... but there are times it
just Gets In The Way, esp if you're not doing Winders.
I'll look into it some more. MIGHT be I can generate
new keys and re-enable ... maybe .......
As for laptops (and maybe desktops (more rare now))
they seem to be getting more and more STUPID. There
were surprisingly few BIOS options. Sometimes they
are 'hidden' behind an obscure prompt or require
a secret key to be held or something ... and then
sometimes there is just NO fine-tuning anymore.
"WE know what you want/need !".
Linux has a signed shim for this.
In fact, a signing ceremony was done just recently,
to account for the revocation of a Microsoft key.
People physically fly to a certain location, to have
the shim signed.
But now the situation has gone too far the other way.
Ubuntu has done something to the UEFI content, which
has altered UEFI enough, that the Microsoft patch
for Black Lotus is failing to work (the machine could fail
to Secure Boot in the year 2026 if this is not corrected).
I have a binary dump of the key content, I can see two
Ubuntu entries, but I don't know why they are there, or
what the intentions of Canonical were by doing this.
Summary: The BEST reason for disabling Secure boot,
is the industry is simply too clueless to
operate the levers properly. It's a shame that
such a poorly thought out scheme, has resulted
in me turning it off in disgust.
As for Ubuntu, "FUCK WITH MY MACHINE? OUT THE DOOR YOU GO!!!"
Ubuntu is banned now. I will no longer answer questions
about Ubuntu by doing test installs of it. You damage
my machine, that's it. Now I don't even know if a
factory reset of the keys is sufficient to fix it.
Flashing the BIOS does not help (tried it). If
I factory reset it, what do I do next for all the
storage media in the room ???
The machine reserved for secure boot testing, has
ended up the way I expected it would end, with me
stuck with some mess I can't clean up. A victory for
the industry. I did not do anything to promote this.
I just install this garbage :-/
It's a good thing nothing in the room is "protected"
with Bitlocker. Then I'd really be screwed.
The rolling diameter is no more or less inaccurate than the rolling circumference. Are you familiar with the process of calibrating a bicycle speedometer? You mark the tire and ride a specific number of revolutions, measuring the distance covered. That gives you the rolling circumference which is not necessarily the same circumference of the unladen tire.
But have it your way, as you will.
Within the last few years, they've been replaced by a TPS, throttle
position sensor, that simply provides an electrical representation of
the throttle position to the ECU. They seem to call it TBW, throttle by
wire.
Clutches have been hydraulic for quite a few years, so that cable is
gone, as well. Good riddance to all of them. It's one less maintenance
item.
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
In the UK we have little 'this is your speed!' displays in green or
red depending on whether you are exceeding the limit or not.
These agree EXACTLY with my Tomtom Go speeds, derived from GPS and
are always around 7% lower then the speedometer reads.
On every car I have tried it on.
Last time I checked my car speedo read 68mph when GPS reads 70mph, so a little under 3% off. I’ve not checked the error at lower (or higher l-) speeds, nor often enough to say how it varies with time and conditions.
Previous cars had less accurate speedos.
On 12/9/25 06:53, Daniel70 wrote:
On 9/12/2025 9:09 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/12/2025 08:35, c186282 wrote:
On 12/8/25 17:41, rbowman wrote:There is no 'tire diameter'
On Mon, 8 Dec 2025 14:59:12 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
No, this is intentional calibration of the car speedometer to 5That's the reason I've heard for Japanese bike speedometers being
kilometres low. The reason is that if you see a road limit of 100Km/h >>>>>> and you do drive at 100Km/h sharp, there is no possibility of you
driving just a bit above the limit and be fined. You could then
sue the
car maker for having bad instrumentation that caused you to be fined. >>>>>
off. The
speedometer in the Toyota is accurate when I'm running the 15"
tires it's
calibrated for.
Yep, tire diameter IS critical.
Only circumference.
.... and, as circumference is dependant on diameter/radius ......
Exactly.
Pi*D = circumference
Elastic properties of tires can make a
small headache, but overall ...
so if you use the
loaded "radius" or "diameter" (even though neither really applies to a
"non-circular shape") you'll come up short for the "distance around the
outside of the tire".
Only a little.
On 12/9/25 22:25, Rich wrote:
In comp.os.linux.misc c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
On 12/9/25 22:05, Rich wrote:
In comp.os.linux.misc c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
On 12/9/25 06:53, Daniel70 wrote:
On 9/12/2025 9:09 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/12/2025 08:35, c186282 wrote:
On 12/8/25 17:41, rbowman wrote:There is no 'tire diameter'
On Mon, 8 Dec 2025 14:59:12 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
No, this is intentional calibration of the car speedometer to 5 >>>>>>>>>> kilometres low. The reason is that if you see a road limit of >>>>>>>>>> 100Km/h
and you do drive at 100Km/h sharp, there is no possibility of you >>>>>>>>>> driving just a bit above the limit and be fined. You could >>>>>>>>>> then sue
the
car maker for having bad instrumentation that caused you to be >>>>>>>>>> fined.
That's the reason I've heard for Japanese bike speedometers being >>>>>>>>> off. The
speedometer in the Toyota is accurate when I'm running the 15" >>>>>>>>> tires
it's
calibrated for.
Yep, tire diameter IS critical.
Only circumference.
.... and, as circumference is dependant on diameter/radius ......
Exactly.
Pi*D = circumference
Yes, for a perfect circle.
But a tire under load is no longer a perfect circle,
Familiar with the phrase "Good Enough ..." :-)
so if you use the
loaded "radius" or "diameter" (even though neither really applies to a >>>> "non-circular shape") you'll come up short for the "distance around the >>>> outside of the tire".
Only a little.
If you plan to use that distance to measure your speed, that little
will amount to a nice error in your final speed number you calculate.
And this subthread got started by discussing speed measurements.
It will result in a SLIGHT speed error. IF you plan
to use speed to estimate arrival at a distant point
then you will have a problem. If you are only interested
in not getting a speeding fine then the slight error
should not be relevant.
As I plan to drive to the food store, not launch
500km into Ukraine, I'd say a quick diameter check
should be "good enough".
There are times to get all hung up on the decimal
points, and times not to.
On 2025-12-09 20:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/12/2025 14:50, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-09 15:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:No you cannot.
On 09/12/2025 11:57, Daniel70 wrote:
On 9/12/2025 9:08 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/12/2025 22:39, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 9 Dec 2025 00:20:38 +1100, Daniel70 wrote:There is no such thing as diameter on a tyre. It isn't circular.
I usually put it down to my Tyres being under-inflated, so their >>>>>>>> diameter is less so it takes more revolutions of the tyre to
cover a specified distance.
I don't think under inflation would change the diameter enough to >>>>>>> throw the speed off that much. In my case the diameter of the 14" >>>>>>> wheels is noticeably less than the 15". I see that in the spring >>>>>>> when I'm going back to the 15". If I jack the car up enough so the >>>>>>> 14" leaves the ground and I can remove it sometimes I have to jack >>>>>>> a little more to get the 15" on.
Might as well ask yourself 'what is the diameter of a tank track'
What counts is circumference and the tyre is elastic enough to expand >>>>>> a little under high pressure.
.... and that pressure would get higher due to usage heating the tyre. >>>>>
And to wear a little lower.
... which would reduce the tyres diameter, so decreasing the Ground >>>>> speed.
THE TYRE HAS NO DIAMETER., It is not circular.
It doesn't matter. We can calculate it.
Yes, we can. It is a formula with π in it.
Any more than you can calculate the 'diameter' of a tank tread.
You might choose to evaluate (circumference over pi), but that is just
a number that has no meaning in this context. There is no physical
dimension that corresponds to it
Irrelevant.
We measure the actual distance travelled for a number of turns. From
that we calculate the effective circumference, and from that, the
effective radius.
None of those have to be the apparent length seen by a measuring tape on
the wheel.
On 09/12/2025 20:20, rbowman wrote:
The rolling diameter is no more or less inaccurate than the rollingBollocks. There is no 'rolling diameter.'
circumference. Are you familiar with the process of calibrating a bicycle
speedometer? You mark the tire and ride a specific number of revolutions,
measuring the distance covered. That gives you the rolling circumference
which is not necessarily the same circumference of the unladen tire.
Otherwise a flat tyre would tear itself off the rim'
But have it your way, as you will.Its not my way, it's the facts.
Yikes ! Small RAT just scurried past in my house.
Never had one inside before. Just ordered the
highest-rated rat poison. Basically nothing for
him to eat here, so he'll love the poison block.
They move too quick to try a BB gun ... don't
think I have any that work anymore anyway.
On 09/12/2025 23:01, Char Jackson wrote:
Within the last few years, they've been replaced by a TPS, throttleSomething has to modulate the air input on a petrol engine.
position sensor, that simply provides an electrical representation of
the throttle position to the ECU. They seem to call it TBW, throttle by
wire.
I dont think they use servos.
On a diesel, well its different.
Clutches have been hydraulic for quite a few years, so that cable is
gone, as well. Good riddance to all of them. It's one less maintenance
item.
I haven't seen a mechanically coupled clutch (or brakes) on a 4 wheeled vehicle since...forever! 1955 or there about maybe.
Standard on bikes tho I agree.
On 12/9/25 22:30, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 10 Dec 2025 03:38:46 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
They charge for each plastic bag you get on the exit cashier, and they
encourage people to buy reusable bags. Thus, we have to enter the shop
with empty reusable bags. It is their doing, not ours. Well, government
regulation, actually. Pushed by the EU.
They encourage people to use them in the US. I have several but seldom
have them with me. Besides, the plastic bags come in handy when cleaning
the litter box.
USA, outside the People's Republic of California, we
get so many plastic bags we can barely deal with them.
Some supermarkets have bins for them ... but the
regular trash service doesn't want them.
Supermarkets now cfharge a pooit for them and the same for non displsable ones so peole got used to pringing the min diusposable iones nacck in.
The plastic bags for fruit and vegetable are made out of starch based material.
I hear that there are problems with those as they disintegrate but they go into
landfills where they can do it peacefully.
On 2025-12-08 14:55, Lars Poulsen wrote:
On Sun, 7 Dec 2025 14:37:25 -0500, Paul wrote:
The plastic baskets are electronically marked, and the detectors at the >>>> store exit beep if you try to walk out with the plastic basket.
On 2025-12-08, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
I'll have to look more closely. I was surprised they had enough
shrinkage
for it to be a concern. The carts, otoh, easily convert to a Homeless
Hilux.
I, too, have noticed that many stores have a distinct shortage of
handbaskets. I remember that back in the 1960s, I read about a study
that showed that people with shopping carts bought more than people
using handbaskets. This prompted stores to promote shopping carts.
The consumer groups suggested that it might be because people were more
likely to use a cart if they knew on their way in that they were buying
more than would fit in a handbasket.
This days, I shop with the reusable bag that they told us to use instead
of one use plastic bags. That way, I know how heavy my bag is getting,
so that I can walk back home.
On 12/10/25 00:27, Bobbie Sellers wrote:Well you gotta love the people from the village who bring their dogs
On 12/9/25 19:30, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 10 Dec 2025 03:38:46 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
They charge for each plastic bag you get on the exit cashier, and they >>>> encourage people to buy reusable bags. Thus, we have to enter the shop >>>> with empty reusable bags. It is their doing, not ours. Well, government >>>> regulation, actually. Pushed by the EU.
They encourage people to use them in the US. I have several but seldom
have them with me. Besides, the plastic bags come in handy when cleaning >>> the litter box.
Maybe they encourage people to use them in your vicinity, city, >> county, state but in
San Francisco City, County of San Francisco, State of California we
are discouraged from
single use bags. As far as it goes when I read in one of those
underground newspapers,
possibly the LA Star, that animal were badly affected by the use of
such bags I started
buying reusable bags, and hold my self-bestowed title of the Old Bag
with a Bag Full of
Bags. That started about 45 years back.
So nice paper bags at the stores I shop at though I seldom use them.
The plastic bags for fruit and vegetable are made out of starch >> based material.
I hear that there are problems with those as they disintegrate
but they go into
landfills where they can do it peacefully.
Cannot imagine MUCH impact on the wildlife from
ordinary thin plastic bags. They tear easily, even
a mouse could get free. My guess is that you got
an OD of Greenie Propaganda.
Of course it doesn't HURT anything to police your
plastic bags, so if you think you're Doing Something ...
The starch-based 'plastic' ... may depend on the exact
formulation. Some of the originals either came all
apart after just a few days exposure to moisture,
letting yer tomatoes and such escape or let nasty
germs get to your food - OR they were big lies and
NEVER disintegrated or merely came apart into some
smaller bits of forever plastic so it SEEMED they
were 'green' to the eye.
I think the newer ones are more better.
Starch/sugar/protein-based IS a good idea ... but
getting exactly the right performance seems a
bit difficult (esp for $$$-oriented corps).
But of course the News insists your brain is 80%
evil plastic specks now !
You have been assimilated ... resistance is futile :-)
Hmmmm ... have an instinct that sugar/protein 'plastic'
might be better than fooling with starches - easy to
micro-tweak proteins, and the sugars are the molecular
glue .....
On 12/9/25 06:10, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-08 14:55, Lars Poulsen wrote:
On Sun, 7 Dec 2025 14:37:25 -0500, Paul wrote:
The plastic baskets are electronically marked, and the
detectors at the store exit beep if you try to walk out with
the plastic basket.
On 2025-12-08, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
I'll have to look more closely. I was surprised they had
enough shrinkage for it to be a concern. The carts, otoh,
easily convert to a Homeless Hilux.
I, too, have noticed that many stores have a distinct shortage of
handbaskets. I remember that back in the 1960s, I read about a
study that showed that people with shopping carts bought more
than people using handbaskets. This prompted stores to promote
shopping carts.
The consumer groups suggested that it might be because people
were more likely to use a cart if they knew on their way in that
they were buying more than would fit in a handbasket.
This days, I shop with the reusable bag that they told us to use
instead of one use plastic bags. That way, I know how heavy my bag
is getting, so that I can walk back home.
Here shopping into your own bag is widely discouraged. I can not use
a hand basket which I used to do because of my use of a cane
following a broken ankle. One or two stores use smaller carts which
are very much easier to manuver thru the aisles of stores but most
use the large family carts only.
On 12/9/25 21:38, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-09 16:56, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 12/9/25 06:10, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-08 14:55, Lars Poulsen wrote:
On Sun, 7 Dec 2025 14:37:25 -0500, Paul wrote:
The consumer groups suggested that it might be because people
were more likely to use a cart if they knew on their way in
that they were buying more than would fit in a handbasket.
This days, I shop with the reusable bag that they told us to
use
These days. oops.
instead of one use plastic bags. That way, I know how heavy my
bag is getting, so that I can walk back home.
Here shopping into your own bag is widely discouraged.
Fortunately, they can say nothing about it. Even more, my usual bag
has another bag inside, one of those insulated for frozen or cold
foods, and inside, I put a small bottle (⅓litre) with frozen
salted water, so that the guard at the entrance can see I enter
with a bag that already has some weight in it.
After depositing everything on the rubber belt at the cashier, I
make a show of looking the bag is empty, or show it to the
employee.
They charge for each plastic bag you get on the exit cashier, and
they encourage people to buy reusable bags. Thus, we have to enter
the shop with empty reusable bags. It is their doing, not ours.
Well, government regulation, actually. Pushed by the EU.
If you use a 'permanent' bag, esp from THAT store, they'll claim you
STOLE it from them ....
And if you really want to get arrested, use "automated self-checkout"
:-)
On 10/12/2025 1:10 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-08 14:55, Lars Poulsen wrote:Over the last few weeks, I've noticed the local Supermarket handing out
On Sun, 7 Dec 2025 14:37:25 -0500, Paul wrote:
The plastic baskets are electronically marked, and the detectors at >>>>> the
store exit beep if you try to walk out with the plastic basket.
On 2025-12-08, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
I'll have to look more closely. I was surprised they had enough
shrinkage
for it to be a concern. The carts, otoh, easily convert to a Homeless
Hilux.
I, too, have noticed that many stores have a distinct shortage of
handbaskets. I remember that back in the 1960s, I read about a study
that showed that people with shopping carts bought more than people
using handbaskets. This prompted stores to promote shopping carts.
The consumer groups suggested that it might be because people were more
likely to use a cart if they knew on their way in that they were buying
more than would fit in a handbasket.
This days, I shop with the reusable bag that they told us to use
instead of one use plastic bags. That way, I know how heavy my bag is
getting, so that I can walk back home.
what I can only ASSUME are a new style of single use plastic bags.
Maybe a different form of plastic .... which could be recyclable.
On 12/10/25 05:30, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/12/2025 23:01, Char Jackson wrote:
Within the last few years, they've been replaced by a TPS, throttleSomething has to modulate the air input on a petrol engine.
position sensor, that simply provides an electrical representation of
the throttle position to the ECU. They seem to call it TBW, throttle by
wire.
I dont think they use servos.
On a diesel, well its different.
Clutches have been hydraulic for quite a few years, so that cable is
gone, as well. Good riddance to all of them. It's one less maintenance
item.
I haven't seen a mechanically coupled clutch (or brakes) on a 4
wheeled vehicle since...forever! 1955 or there about maybe.
Standard on bikes tho I agree.
Bikes are small, light, simple.
Kinda WISH car makers would adopt that paradigm again.
Oh, hydraulics are great - until there's a leak ....
Over the last few weeks, I've noticed the local Supermarket handing out
what I can only ASSUME are a new style of single use plastic bags.
Maybe a different form of plastic .... which could be recyclable.
On 12/10/25 06:14, Daniel70 wrote:
On 10/12/2025 1:10 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-08 14:55, Lars Poulsen wrote:Over the last few weeks, I've noticed the local Supermarket handing
On Sun, 7 Dec 2025 14:37:25 -0500, Paul wrote:
The plastic baskets are electronically marked, and the detectors
at the
store exit beep if you try to walk out with the plastic basket.
On 2025-12-08, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
I'll have to look more closely. I was surprised they had enough
shrinkage
for it to be a concern. The carts, otoh, easily convert to a Homeless >>>>> Hilux.
I, too, have noticed that many stores have a distinct shortage of
handbaskets. I remember that back in the 1960s, I read about a study
that showed that people with shopping carts bought more than people
using handbaskets. This prompted stores to promote shopping carts.
The consumer groups suggested that it might be because people were more >>>> likely to use a cart if they knew on their way in that they were buying >>>> more than would fit in a handbasket.
This days, I shop with the reusable bag that they told us to use
instead of one use plastic bags. That way, I know how heavy my bag is
getting, so that I can walk back home.
out what I can only ASSUME are a new style of single use plastic bags.
Maybe a different form of plastic .... which could be recyclable.
Hmmm ... what IS it ? Any idea ?
There are various kinds of 'recyclable' plastics.
Some recycle better than others. For what's going
to be holding kitchen trash you want something
that decomposes under moisture/UV/fungi after
maybe a year - but CLEAN decomposition.
They've gotten better at that, but I still have
not heard of a really 'clean' product that breaks
down to non-toxics/non-persistents.
Such 'plastics' probably exist, but may be too
expensive to produce.
'Green' is not inherently evil - though politics
often make it that way. If you CAN, easily, do
something 'green' then, well, why not ?
On 10/12/2025 06:42, c186282 wrote:
On 12/10/25 00:27, Bobbie Sellers wrote:Well you gotta love the people from the village who bring their dogs
On 12/9/25 19:30, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 10 Dec 2025 03:38:46 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
They charge for each plastic bag you get on the exit cashier, and they >>>>> encourage people to buy reusable bags. Thus, we have to enter the shop >>>>> with empty reusable bags. It is their doing, not ours. Well,
government
regulation, actually. Pushed by the EU.
They encourage people to use them in the US. I have several but seldom >>>> have them with me. Besides, the plastic bags come in handy when
cleaning
the litter box.
Maybe they encourage people to use them in your vicinity, city, >>> county, state but in
San Francisco City, County of San Francisco, State of California we
are discouraged from
single use bags. As far as it goes when I read in one of those
underground newspapers,
possibly the LA Star, that animal were badly affected by the use of
such bags I started
buying reusable bags, and hold my self-bestowed title of the Old Bag
with a Bag Full of
Bags. That started about 45 years back.
So nice paper bags at the stores I shop at though I seldom use >>> them.
The plastic bags for fruit and vegetable are made out of starch >>> based material.
I hear that there are problems with those as they disintegrate >>> but they go into
landfills where they can do it peacefully.
Cannot imagine MUCH impact on the wildlife from
ordinary thin plastic bags. They tear easily, even
a mouse could get free. My guess is that you got
an OD of Greenie Propaganda.
walking in the woods, and scoop the poop into plastic nags, and finding
no bins for them , *hang them on the trees* thereby increasing total pollution and stopping the natural processes of poop digestion happening.
Of course it doesn't HURT anything to police yourMost 'green tech' is virtue signalling bullshit.
plastic bags, so if you think you're Doing Something ...
The starch-based 'plastic' ... may depend on the exact
formulation. Some of the originals either came all
apart after just a few days exposure to moisture,
letting yer tomatoes and such escape or let nasty
germs get to your food - OR they were big lies and
NEVER disintegrated or merely came apart into some
smaller bits of forever plastic so it SEEMED they
were 'green' to the eye.
I think the newer ones are more better.What IS the right performance anyway?
Starch/sugar/protein-based IS a good idea ... but
getting exactly the right performance seems a
bit difficult (esp for $$$-oriented corps).
Your computer monitor turns to bio-goo in 5 years?
Great, thanks.
Plastic is made for burning. Just scrub the flues to get rid of the chlorine, sulhur and make it hot enough to break down the dioxins.
And generate some power as well.
Of course greens *hate* that because its too sensible.
But of course the News insists your brain is 80%I tend to wonder if that isn't true in the case of Greens.
evil plastic specks now !
You have been assimilated ... resistance is futile :-)Back in the day we made stuff out of wood.
Hmmmm ... have an instinct that sugar/protein 'plastic'
might be better than fooling with starches - easy to
micro-tweak proteins, and the sugars are the molecular
glue .....
Burning many kinds of plastic DOES generate a lot
of toxic stuff, maybe worse than coal.
Hanging bags of dog shit ?
Yep 🙂
Wood, ie paper, does work pretty good for a lot
of things. However plastic is best at keeping
bacteria and such out of your lunch.
Oh, we're kinda using up all the wood.
On 12/9/25 21:38, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-09 16:56, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 12/9/25 06:10, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-08 14:55, Lars Poulsen wrote:
On Sun, 7 Dec 2025 14:37:25 -0500, Paul wrote:
The consumer groups suggested that it might be because people were
more
likely to use a cart if they knew on their way in that they were
buying
more than would fit in a handbasket.
This days, I shop with the reusable bag that they told us to use
These days. oops.
instead of one use plastic bags. That way, I know how heavy my bag
is getting, so that I can walk back home.
Here shopping into your own bag is widely discouraged.
Fortunately, they can say nothing about it. Even more, my usual bag
has another bag inside, one of those insulated for frozen or cold
foods, and inside, I put a small bottle (⅓litre) with frozen salted
water, so that the guard at the entrance can see I enter with a bag
that already has some weight in it.
After depositing everything on the rubber belt at the cashier, I make
a show of looking the bag is empty, or show it to the employee.
They charge for each plastic bag you get on the exit cashier, and they
encourage people to buy reusable bags. Thus, we have to enter the shop
with empty reusable bags. It is their doing, not ours. Well,
government regulation, actually. Pushed by the EU.
If you use a 'permanent' bag, esp from THAT store,
they'll claim you STOLE it from them ....
And if you really want to get arrested, use "automated
self-checkout" :-)
Sometimes I use a backpack, and some times my own trolley. When I buy
milk, for instance.
https://share.google/NreDLQi7p1sjP1KPY
Otherwise, I drive.
What a drag it is getting old .......
Hey, joints don't hold up forever - and the more
you abused them in yer youth ........
Yikes ! Small RAT just scurried past in my house.
Never had one inside before. Just ordered the
highest-rated rat poison. Basically nothing for
him to eat here, so he'll love the poison block.
They move too quick to try a BB gun ... don't
think I have any that work anymore anyway.
If you use a 'permanent' bag, esp from THAT store,
they'll claim you STOLE it from them ....
Nope. They stamp them when they sell them 🙂
Besides, it is easy to differentiate a much used bag from a new one.
On 12/9/25 22:30, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 10 Dec 2025 03:38:46 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
They charge for each plastic bag you get on the exit cashier, and they
encourage people to buy reusable bags. Thus, we have to enter the shop
with empty reusable bags. It is their doing, not ours. Well, government
regulation, actually. Pushed by the EU.
They encourage people to use them in the US. I have several but seldom
have them with me. Besides, the plastic bags come in handy when cleaning
the litter box.
USA, outside the People's Republic of California, we
get so many plastic bags we can barely deal with them.
Some supermarkets have bins for them ... but the
regular trash service doesn't want them.
On 10/12/2025 06:42, c186282 wrote:
On 12/10/25 00:27, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
Cannot imagine MUCH impact on the wildlife fromWell you gotta love the people from the village who bring their dogs
ordinary thin plastic bags. They tear easily, even
a mouse could get free. My guess is that you got
an OD of Greenie Propaganda.
walking in the woods, and scoop the poop into plastic nags, and finding
no bins for them , *hang them on the trees* thereby increasing total pollution and stopping the natural processes of poop digestion happening.
Most 'green tech' is virtue signalling bullshit.
Of course it doesn't HURT anything to police your
plastic bags, so if you think you're Doing Something ...
The starch-based 'plastic' ... may depend on the exact
formulation. Some of the originals either came all
apart after just a few days exposure to moisture,
letting yer tomatoes and such escape or let nasty
germs get to your food - OR they were big lies and
NEVER disintegrated or merely came apart into some
smaller bits of forever plastic so it SEEMED they
were 'green' to the eye.
I think the newer ones are more better.What IS the right performance anyway?
Starch/sugar/protein-based IS a good idea ... but
getting exactly the right performance seems a
bit difficult (esp for $$$-oriented corps).
Your computer monitor turns to bio-goo in 5 years?
Great, thanks.
Plastic is made for burning. Just scrub the flues to get rid of the chlorine, sulhur and make it hot enough to break down the dioxins.
And generate some power as well.
Of course greens *hate* that because its too sensible.
But of course the News insists your brain is 80%I tend to wonder if that isn't true in the case of Greens.
evil plastic specks now !
You have been assimilated ... resistance is futile :-)Back in the day we made stuff out of wood.
Hmmmm ... have an instinct that sugar/protein 'plastic'
might be better than fooling with starches - easy to
micro-tweak proteins, and the sugars are the molecular
glue .....
On 12/10/25 06:16, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/12/2025 06:42, c186282 wrote:
On 12/10/25 00:27, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
Well you gotta love the people from the village who bring their dogs
Cannot imagine MUCH impact on the wildlife from
ordinary thin plastic bags. They tear easily, even
a mouse could get free. My guess is that you got
an OD of Greenie Propaganda.
walking in the woods, and scoop the poop into plastic nags, and
finding no bins for them , *hang them on the trees* thereby
increasing total pollution and stopping the natural processes of poop
digestion happening.
Oh ... wow ...........
Maybe WAY too much acid back in the day ???
On 10/12/2025 12:03, c186282 wrote:
Hanging bags of dog shit ?
Yep 🙂
It;s people who are conditioned by propaganda that Dog Shit is Bad and
has to be Disposed Of Properly, so they carry little council provided
poop bags and put it in the council provided poop bins.
Except the council has no remit over highways and byways that are
outside the village and on 'agricultural' land where dogs are permitted
to shit as they please, along with foxes, badgers and weasels etc. etc.
On 12/10/25 06:14, Daniel70 wrote:
On 10/12/2025 1:10 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-08 14:55, Lars Poulsen wrote:
On Sun, 7 Dec 2025 14:37:25 -0500, Paul wrote:
Over the last few weeks, I've noticed the local Supermarket handing
out what I can only ASSUME are a new style of single use plastic bags.
Maybe a different form of plastic .... which could be recyclable.
Hmmm ... what IS it ? Any idea ?
There are various kinds of 'recyclable' plastics.
Some recycle better than others. For what's going
to be holding kitchen trash you want something
that decomposes under moisture/UV/fungi after
maybe a year - but CLEAN decomposition.
They've gotten better at that, but I still have
not heard of a really 'clean' product that breaks
down to non-toxics/non-persistents.
Such 'plastics' probably exist, but may be too
expensive to produce.
'Green' is not inherently evil - though politics
often make it that way. If you CAN, easily, do
something 'green' then, well, why not ?
On 2025-12-10 13:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/12/2025 12:03, c186282 wrote:
Hanging bags of dog shit ?
Yep 🙂
It;s people who are conditioned by propaganda that Dog Shit is Bad and
has to be Disposed Of Properly, so they carry little council provided
poop bags and put it in the council provided poop bins.
Dog poo on city pavement is a curse. Very good idea to have pet owner collect it.
Except the council has no remit over highways and byways that are
outside the village and on 'agricultural' land where dogs are
permitted to shit as they please, along with foxes, badgers and
weasels etc. etc.
On 2025-12-10 05:09, c186282 wrote:
On 12/9/25 22:30, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 10 Dec 2025 03:38:46 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
They charge for each plastic bag you get on the exit cashier, and they >>>> encourage people to buy reusable bags. Thus, we have to enter the shop >>>> with empty reusable bags. It is their doing, not ours. Well, government >>>> regulation, actually. Pushed by the EU.
They encourage people to use them in the US. I have several but seldom
have them with me. Besides, the plastic bags come in handy when cleaning >>> the litter box.
USA, outside the People's Republic of California, we
get so many plastic bags we can barely deal with them.
Some supermarkets have bins for them ... but the
regular trash service doesn't want them.
We no longer get plastic bags on supermarkets, you have to pay for each one, and often they degrade fast.
Only some shops still use plastic bags, like pharmacies. Food stores, no.
I have a garbage container, and I basically need to purchase garbage bags of certain sizes. Not that easy to reuse plastic bags from supermarkets.
On 2025-12-10 13:03, c186282 wrote:
On 12/10/25 06:16, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/12/2025 06:42, c186282 wrote:
On 12/10/25 00:27, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
Well you gotta love the people from the village who bring their dogs
Cannot imagine MUCH impact on the wildlife from
ordinary thin plastic bags. They tear easily, even
a mouse could get free. My guess is that you got
an OD of Greenie Propaganda.
walking in the woods, and scoop the poop into plastic nags, and
finding no bins for them , *hang them on the trees* thereby
increasing total pollution and stopping the natural processes of poop
digestion happening.
Oh ... wow ...........
Maybe WAY too much acid back in the day ???
Oh, in my area there are few trees. I saw the black poo bags in the
ground and was astonished.
Although I have to say that it is not nice to be walking on the country
and have to keep watching for poo and avoiding it. The dogs poo right in
the middle of the path, not like wild creatures.
The dogs poo right in the middle of the path, not like wild creatures.Mine never did
On 12/10/2025 8:49 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-10 13:03, c186282 wrote:What about deer, rabbit, fox, raccoon, etc, poop. Do you worry about stepping in that?
On 12/10/25 06:16, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/12/2025 06:42, c186282 wrote:
On 12/10/25 00:27, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
Well you gotta love the people from the village who bring their dogs
Cannot imagine MUCH impact on the wildlife from
ordinary thin plastic bags. They tear easily, even
a mouse could get free. My guess is that you got
an OD of Greenie Propaganda.
walking in the woods, and scoop the poop into plastic nags, and
finding no bins for them , *hang them on the trees* thereby
increasing total pollution and stopping the natural processes of
poop digestion happening.
Oh ... wow ...........
Maybe WAY too much acid back in the day ???
Oh, in my area there are few trees. I saw the black poo bags in the
ground and was astonished.
Although I have to say that it is not nice to be walking on the
country and have to keep watching for poo and avoiding it. The dogs
poo right in the middle of the path, not like wild creatures.
On 10/12/2025 2:26 pm, c186282 wrote:
And if you really want to get arrested, use "automated self-checkout"
:-)
Hate them!! Hate them! Hate them. I'll stand in line at a staffed
Check-Out (if there is one) rather than use those Auto-mated Check-Outs.
The way I figure it, the Supermarket has already added the 'Staffing
Costs' into the price of the things I buy, so I might as well make use
of the Staff that I'm paying for.
Well you gotta love the people from the village who bring their dogs
walking in the woods, and scoop the poop into plastic nags, and finding
no bins for them , *hang them on the trees* thereby increasing total pollution and stopping the natural processes of poop digestion happening.
Hate them!! Hate them! Hate them. I'll stand in line at a staffed
Check-Out (if there is one) rather than use those Auto-mated Check-Outs.
The way I figure it, the Supermarket has already added the 'Staffing
Costs' into the price of the things I buy, so I might as well make use
of the Staff that I'm paying for.
I am not sure what a 'BB' gun is, but as far as air rifles equipped with infra red sights go...
Which is why they speedometers which count RPM, not 'rollingRadius™' are
as accurate as they are.
Well you gotta love the people from the village who bring their dogs
walking in the woods, and scoop the poop into plastic nags, and finding
no bins for them , *hang them on the trees* thereby increasing total pollution and stopping the natural processes of poop digestion
happening.
It;s people who are conditioned by propaganda that Dog Shit is Bad and
has to be Disposed Of Properly, so they carry little council provided
poop bags and put it in the council provided poop bins.
Although I have to say that it is not nice to be walking on the country
and have to keep watching for poo and avoiding it. The dogs poo right in
the middle of the path, not like wild creatures.
It's another of those 'little knowledge, 'concerned', citizens' who
arrived along with a socialist government.
On 10/12/2025 12:03, c186282 wrote:
Wood, ie paper, does work pretty good for a lot
of things. However plastic is best at keeping
bacteria and such out of your lunch.
Or in it, depending.
On 10/12/2025 12:03, c186282 wrote:
Oh, we're kinda using up all the wood.
Nope., We are growing as much pulpwood as we use.
On 2025-12-10 04:26, c186282 wrote:
On 12/9/25 21:38, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-09 16:56, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 12/9/25 06:10, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-08 14:55, Lars Poulsen wrote:
On Sun, 7 Dec 2025 14:37:25 -0500, Paul wrote:
The consumer groups suggested that it might be because people were >>>>>> more
likely to use a cart if they knew on their way in that they were
buying
more than would fit in a handbasket.
This days, I shop with the reusable bag that they told us to use
These days. oops.
instead of one use plastic bags. That way, I know how heavy my bag
is getting, so that I can walk back home.
Here shopping into your own bag is widely discouraged.
Fortunately, they can say nothing about it. Even more, my usual bag
has another bag inside, one of those insulated for frozen or cold
foods, and inside, I put a small bottle (⅓litre) with frozen salted
water, so that the guard at the entrance can see I enter with a bag
that already has some weight in it.
After depositing everything on the rubber belt at the cashier, I make
a show of looking the bag is empty, or show it to the employee.
They charge for each plastic bag you get on the exit cashier, and
they encourage people to buy reusable bags. Thus, we have to enter
the shop with empty reusable bags. It is their doing, not ours. Well,
government regulation, actually. Pushed by the EU.
If you use a 'permanent' bag, esp from THAT store,
they'll claim you STOLE it from them ....
Nope. They stamp them when they sell them :-)
Besides, it is easy to differentiate a much used bag from a new one.
And if you really want to get arrested, use "automated
self-checkout" :-)
Wow. I do use them, no problems here. They have staff constantly
watching and helping.
At one of the big supermarkets I use, Carrefour, the automated section
is for bags or baskets, not carts.
At a very small number of Carrefours, there is another automated
mechanism: you pick a handheld scanner on entry to the place, and then
scan each item you put on the cart. At exit, you put the device on a receptacle, and you get asked to pay the total. No need to handle
anything on the cart. So out to your car to put everything in the boot. Randomly, they pick one cart to check manually.
I don't know how they handle an error, but I have not heard of arrests.
...
Sometimes I use a backpack, and some times my own trolley. When I buy
milk, for instance.
https://share.google/NreDLQi7p1sjP1KPY
Otherwise, I drive.
What a drag it is getting old .......
Hey, joints don't hold up forever - and the more
you abused them in yer youth ........
Heard on the radio, a doctor investigator, maybe yesterday, that during
a Marathon race the... I think he said the glio cells in the cerebrum
get damaged (20%?) and need a recovery of about two or three weeks.
Those runners that participate in many races get a constant damage. Not clear what impact that has.
On 2025-12-10 13:03, c186282 wrote:
On 12/10/25 06:16, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/12/2025 06:42, c186282 wrote:
On 12/10/25 00:27, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
Well you gotta love the people from the village who bring their dogs
Cannot imagine MUCH impact on the wildlife from
ordinary thin plastic bags. They tear easily, even
a mouse could get free. My guess is that you got
an OD of Greenie Propaganda.
walking in the woods, and scoop the poop into plastic nags, and
finding no bins for them , *hang them on the trees* thereby
increasing total pollution and stopping the natural processes of poop
digestion happening.
Oh ... wow ...........
Maybe WAY too much acid back in the day ???
Oh, in my area there are few trees. I saw the black poo bags in the
ground and was astonished.
Although I have to say that it is not nice to be walking on the country
and have to keep watching for poo and avoiding it. The dogs poo right in
the middle of the path, not like wild creatures.
On 10/12/2025 2:26 pm, c186282 wrote:
And if you really want to get arrested, use "automated self-checkout"
:-)
Hate them!! Hate them! Hate them. I'll stand in line at a staffed
Check-Out (if there is one) rather than use those Auto-mated Check-Outs.
The way I figure it, the Supermarket has already added the 'Staffing
Costs' into the price of the things I buy, so I might as well make use
of the Staff that I'm paying for.
On Wed, 10 Dec 2025 22:32:08 +1100, Daniel70
<daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
On 10/12/2025 2:26 pm, c186282 wrote:
And if you really want to get arrested, use "automated self-checkout"
:-)
Hate them!! Hate them! Hate them. I'll stand in line at a staffed
Check-Out (if there is one) rather than use those Auto-mated Check-Outs.
The way I figure it, the Supermarket has already added the 'Staffing
Costs' into the price of the things I buy, so I might as well make use
of the Staff that I'm paying for.
I use the self-checkout 100% of the time. Love it.
On Wed, 10 Dec 2025 22:32:08 +1100, Daniel70
<daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
On 10/12/2025 2:26 pm, c186282 wrote:
And if you really want to get arrested, use "automated self-checkout"
:-)
Hate them!! Hate them! Hate them. I'll stand in line at a staffed
Check-Out (if there is one) rather than use those Auto-mated Check-Outs.
The way I figure it, the Supermarket has already added the 'Staffing
Costs' into the price of the things I buy, so I might as well make use
of the Staff that I'm paying for.
I use the self-checkout 100% of the time. Love it.
On Wed, 10 Dec 2025 10:52:47 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Which is why they speedometers which count RPM, not 'rollingRadius™' are >> as accurate as they are.
RPM of what? On my Harley the Hall sensor picks up the 5th gear teeth.
Meanwhile I have a lawn full of deer shit. It mulches well and doesn't
burn the grass so I look at it as a plus. Cycle of nature and all. They
eat the ornamental crabapples and provide the fertilizer that keeps the crabapple tree happy.
On Wed, 10 Dec 2025 16:58:37 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
It's another of those 'little knowledge, 'concerned', citizens' who
arrived along with a socialist government.
The US terminology is 'Karen'.
On 12/10/25 07:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/12/2025 12:03, c186282 wrote:
Oh, we're kinda using up all the wood.
Nope., We are growing as much pulpwood as we use.
"We" ???
So why are global forests being razed ???
Seems a LOT of people aren't growing wood
as fast as they use it. If your country is
short, get some OTHER country to raze its
forests ... gets past most press scrutiny.
Then there are the highly coveted, marked-up,
'tropical' woods. Whole rainforests are being
razed and 'we' can't grow those trees in
temperate zones.
Sorry, there IS a problem ... we've just become
better at HIDING it.
So, I'm still gonna promote 'alternate' materials
'kind of' like wood.
I can buy 'plastic lumber' from the local home store.
It's almost pure polyethylene, old milk jugs. It is
easy to work and does not rot. Alas it's not very
STIFF ... bends far more easily than even softwood
lumber. Likely not as much tensile strength either.
Stressed fibers inside the boards COULD help with
that, but makes it more expensive.
Wood is a fascinating study - highly-evolved
nano-structured material for load-bearing. We
just can't MAKE anything quite like it on
an industrial scale - probably not for quite
awhile.
A nice big house built of 4x12 Ironwood beams
IS attractive ... strong as hell, won't burn,
won't rot, enough flex to survive quakes, maybe
even dense enough to resist nuke-bomb radiation -
ought to last 1000+ years. Alas there aren't
that many ironwood trees and they take hundreds
of years to grow. Bummer.
Normally, the poo is FERTILIZER for the plants. It
only gets bad if there's way TOO much poo in one
place - typically near farms, but too many dogs in
the little dog park also perhaps.
On Wed, 10 Dec 2025 22:32:08 +1100, Daniel70
<daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
On 10/12/2025 2:26 pm, c186282 wrote:
And if you really want to get arrested, use "automated self-checkout"
:-)
Hate them!! Hate them! Hate them. I'll stand in line at a staffed
Check-Out (if there is one) rather than use those Auto-mated Check-Outs.
The way I figure it, the Supermarket has already added the 'Staffing
Costs' into the price of the things I buy, so I might as well make use
of the Staff that I'm paying for.
I use the self-checkout 100% of the time. Love it.
On 11/12/2025 03:22, c186282 wrote:
On 12/10/25 07:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:The Western world. Esoecially canada Norway and teh sub arctic natuons
On 10/12/2025 12:03, c186282 wrote:
Oh, we're kinda using up all the wood.
Nope., We are growing as much pulpwood as we use.
"We" ???
So why are global forests being razed ???So they can graze beef.
Seems a LOT of people aren't growing woodWe (UK) are growing it now faster than we use it. The worst time was the Great Naval period of ships with' hearts of oak' ,
as fast as they use it. If your country is
short, get some OTHER country to raze its
forests ... gets past most press scrutiny.
More oaks now than than 200 years ago for sure.
Softwood plantations are a major industry in Canada, and in IIRC
Norway,. which is where our constructional lumber and pulp paper comes
from.
Never read 'sometimes a great notion'?
Oregon too.
Then there are the highly coveted, marked-up,Thoise are now somewhat protected., It is very hard to find decent ebony
'tropical' woods. Whole rainforests are being
razed and 'we' can't grow those trees in
temperate zones.
or rosewood.
But then the trend is to build using pulpwood products like chipboard or MDF. Not mahogany. Which was a choise because of its even grain from the seasonless tropics. But plywood is even more stable, and birch is a weed
in the northern places.,
Sorry, there IS a problem ... we've just becomeNo, its the solution you haven't noticed, Why would you unless you lived
better at HIDING it.
in a cold norhern country?
So, I'm still gonna promote 'alternate' materialsPlenty of that too. Bamboo for example. Much used for many things. You
'kind of' like wood.
can use hemp to make cloth has well as smoke it. Also sisal
I can buy 'plastic lumber' from the local home store.
It's almost pure polyethylene, old milk jugs. It is
easy to work and does not rot. Alas it's not very
STIFF ... bends far more easily than even softwood
lumber. Likely not as much tensile strength either.
Stressed fibers inside the boards COULD help with
that, but makes it more expensive.
MDF is best. Not much stiffness but very stable.
I've got walls made of it - easy to screw into and tales paint well.
Made a 19" rack with it too.
http://vps.templar.co.uk/ FTTP%20installation/8%20wiring%20rack%20and%20boundary%20router.png
Wood is a fascinating study - highly-evolvedAnd thank heaven for that. Wood is a ghastly material to use. Its
nano-structured material for load-bearing. We
just can't MAKE anything quite like it on
an industrial scale - probably not for quite
awhile.
unstable, isotropic and no two pieces are the same.
Engineered wood - plywood - is much better. So is fibre board and chipboard.
A nice big house built of 4x12 Ironwood beamsMine is built with some 12 x 12 oak...but the real strenght is that it's clad with plywood.
IS attractive ... strong as hell, won't burn,
won't rot, enough flex to survive quakes, maybe
even dense enough to resist nuke-bomb radiation -
ought to last 1000+ years. Alas there aren't
that many ironwood trees and they take hundreds
of years to grow. Bummer.
Plus the odd bit of brick and steel ...
On Wed, 10 Dec 2025 22:32:08 +1100, Daniel70
<daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
On 10/12/2025 2:26 pm, c186282 wrote:
And if you really want to get arrested, use "automated self-checkout"
:-)
Hate them!! Hate them! Hate them. I'll stand in line at a staffed
Check-Out (if there is one) rather than use those Auto-mated Check-Outs.
The way I figure it, the Supermarket has already added the 'Staffing
Costs' into the price of the things I buy, so I might as well make use
of the Staff that I'm paying for.
I use the self-checkout 100% of the time. Love it.
On 09/12/2025 23:01, Char Jackson wrote:
Within the last few years, they've been replaced by a TPS, throttleSomething has to modulate the air input on a petrol engine.
position sensor, that simply provides an electrical representation of
the throttle position to the ECU. They seem to call it TBW, throttle by
wire.
I dont think they use servos.
On a diesel, well its different.
Clutches have been hydraulic for quite a few years, so that cable is
gone, as well. Good riddance to all of them. It's one less maintenance
item.
I haven't seen a mechanically coupled clutch (or brakes) on a 4 wheeled vehicle since...forever! 1955 or there about maybe.
Standard on bikes tho I agree.
On 11/12/2025 05:00, Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 10 Dec 2025 22:32:08 +1100, Daniel70I am about 50 50.
<daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
On 10/12/2025 2:26 pm, c186282 wrote:
And if you really want to get arrested, use "automated self-checkout"
:-)
Hate them!! Hate them! Hate them. I'll stand in line at a staffed
Check-Out (if there is one) rather than use those Auto-mated Check-Outs. >>>
The way I figure it, the Supermarket has already added the 'Staffing
Costs' into the price of the things I buy, so I might as well make use
of the Staff that I'm paying for.
I use the self-checkout 100% of the time. Love it.
The problem is certain items are 'adult only' and require staff intervention. Aspirin, paracetamol, alcohol and FFS even *matches*
cannot be sold to kids.
And sometimes the machines throw a wobbly and need resetting
BUT there is generally a shorter queue.
And checkout is not the major labour cost - shelf restocking is.
On 12/10/25 05:27, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/12/2025 20:20, rbowman wrote:
Otherwise a flat tyre would tear itself off the rim'
Umm ... they DO ... or at least TRY. It's just
that the rim is too stiff to 'tear' much unless
under extreme load. HAVE seen it on 18-wheelers ...
entire giant tire breaking loose, then rolling
at 80mph and bouncing randomly off an overpass.
Deadly if you were in the path .....
On 10/12/2025 13:23, Carlos E.R. wrote:
If you use a 'permanent' bag, esp from THAT store,
they'll claim you STOLE it from them ....
Nope. They stamp them when they sell them 🙂
Besides, it is easy to differentiate a much used bag from a new one.
In my supermarket the design changes every week or two,
But in general they trust you.
On 12/9/25 21:20, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-09 20:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/12/2025 14:50, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-09 15:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:No you cannot.
On 09/12/2025 11:57, Daniel70 wrote:
On 9/12/2025 9:08 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/12/2025 22:39, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 9 Dec 2025 00:20:38 +1100, Daniel70 wrote:There is no such thing as diameter on a tyre. It isn't circular. >>>>>>> Might as well ask yourself 'what is the diameter of a tank track' >>>>>>>
I usually put it down to my Tyres being under-inflated, so
their diameter is less so it takes more revolutions of the tyre to >>>>>>>>> cover a specified distance.
I don't think under inflation would change the diameter enough to >>>>>>>> throw the speed off that much. In my case the diameter of the 14" >>>>>>>> wheels is noticeably less than the 15". I see that in the spring >>>>>>>> when I'm going back to the 15". If I jack the car up enough so the >>>>>>>> 14" leaves the ground and I can remove it sometimes I have to jack >>>>>>>> a little more to get the 15" on.
What counts is circumference and the tyre is elastic enough to
expand
a little under high pressure.
.... and that pressure would get higher due to usage heating the
tyre.
And to wear a little lower.
... which would reduce the tyres diameter, so decreasing the
Ground speed.
THE TYRE HAS NO DIAMETER., It is not circular.
It doesn't matter. We can calculate it.
Yes, we can. It is a formula with π in it.
Any more than you can calculate the 'diameter' of a tank tread.
You might choose to evaluate (circumference over pi), but that is
just a number that has no meaning in this context. There is no
physical dimension that corresponds to it
Irrelevant.
We measure the actual distance travelled for a number of turns. From
that we calculate the effective circumference, and from that, the
effective radius.
None of those have to be the apparent length seen by a measuring tape
on the wheel.
Planning to lock the steering and send it 500km
towards Kyiv ???
If not, then the estimation based on raw diameter
or circumference will be Good Enough to guess if
yer new tires put you at legal risk.
It's just TOO easy to get hung up on the decimal points.
I have a garbage container, and I basically need to purchase garbage
bags of certain sizes. Not that easy to reuse plastic bags from supermarkets.
On 11/12/2025 8:27 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/12/2025 05:00, Char Jackson wrote:.... which the Check-out staff can also do when things are quite at the Check-outs!
On Wed, 10 Dec 2025 22:32:08 +1100, Daniel70I am about 50 50.
<daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
On 10/12/2025 2:26 pm, c186282 wrote:
And if you really want to get arrested, use "automated self-checkout" >>>>> :-)
Hate them!! Hate them! Hate them. I'll stand in line at a staffed
Check-Out (if there is one) rather than use those Auto-mated
Check-Outs.
The way I figure it, the Supermarket has already added the 'Staffing
Costs' into the price of the things I buy, so I might as well make use >>>> of the Staff that I'm paying for.
I use the self-checkout 100% of the time. Love it.
The problem is certain items are 'adult only' and require staff
intervention. Aspirin, paracetamol, alcohol and FFS even *matches*
cannot be sold to kids.
And sometimes the machines throw a wobbly and need resetting
BUT there is generally a shorter queue.
And checkout is not the major labour cost - shelf restocking is.
On Wed, 10 Dec 2025 22:32:08 +1100, Daniel70 wrote:
Hate them!! Hate them! Hate them. I'll stand in line at a staffed
Check-Out (if there is one) rather than use those Auto-mated Check-Outs.
The way I figure it, the Supermarket has already added the 'Staffing
Costs' into the price of the things I buy, so I might as well make use
of the Staff that I'm paying for.
The markets have reduced the number of manned lanes and have done away
with the 'express' lanes. I'm not keen on standing in line behind someone
who was shopping for a family of nine to get my six items rung up. Even
worse is discovering you're behind someone with a EBT card that finds
their credit card declined for the stuff the EBT didn't cover.
On 12/10/25 08:23, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-10 04:26, c186282 wrote:
On 12/9/25 21:38, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-09 16:56, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 12/9/25 06:10, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-08 14:55, Lars Poulsen wrote:
On Sun, 7 Dec 2025 14:37:25 -0500, Paul wrote:
If you use a 'permanent' bag, esp from THAT store,
they'll claim you STOLE it from them ....
Nope. They stamp them when they sell them :-)
Unless the under-paid guy FORGETS ...
Besides, it is easy to differentiate a much used bag from a new one.
But they don't get 'much used' for awhile.
And if you really want to get arrested, use "automated
self-checkout" :-)
Wow. I do use them, no problems here. They have staff constantly
watching and helping.
False arrests are a growing issue in US stores. The
security cam/AI becomes *convinced* you skipped/hid
some item. Then cops come for you. TRY to prove
you are innocent.
Oh yea, what's the POINT in actual HUMAN watchers ?
You're still dedicating at least one human to the
checkout process ... ergo NO reason for the
'automated' shit. Just let 'em work a register !
At one of the big supermarkets I use, Carrefour, the automated section
is for bags or baskets, not carts.
At a very small number of Carrefours, there is another automated
mechanism: you pick a handheld scanner on entry to the place, and then
scan each item you put on the cart. At exit, you put the device on a
receptacle, and you get asked to pay the total. No need to handle
anything on the cart. So out to your car to put everything in the
boot. Randomly, they pick one cart to check manually.
I won't use automated systems. Human check-out or
go to another store.
I don't know how they handle an error, but I have not heard of arrests.
Check.
Sometimes I use a backpack, and some times my own trolley. When I
buy milk, for instance.
https://share.google/NreDLQi7p1sjP1KPY
Otherwise, I drive.
What a drag it is getting old .......
Hey, joints don't hold up forever - and the more
you abused them in yer youth ........
Heard on the radio, a doctor investigator, maybe yesterday, that
during a Marathon race the... I think he said the glio cells in the
cerebrum get damaged (20%?) and need a recovery of about two or three
weeks. Those runners that participate in many races get a constant
damage. Not clear what impact that has.
Glia cells are the "other half" of the brain - and
more and more found to be VERY important. Heavy
stress COULD screw 'em up.
There are several kinds of 'support' cells in the
brain. They DO play a number of active roles,
including modulating neurotransmitter levels
dynamically. Neurons do what neurons do, but
they need a lot of help. It's ALL the cells
that comprise the full picture.
Maybe neural network electronics won't need
such help ?
On Tue, 9 Dec 2025 22:46:41 +1100, Daniel70 wrote:
On 9/12/2025 5:41 pm, c186282 wrote:
On 12/8/25 17:46, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 9 Dec 2025 00:04:29 +1100, Daniel70 wrote:
On 8/12/2025 1:56 pm, c186282 wrote:
<Snip>
Have never seen any 'smart' ones ... just the basic models the >>>>>> insane cat lady pushes down the street full of her junk.
You say 'Junk', she says 'Treasured Possessions"!! ;-P
I can't be judgmental. I'm surrounded by cables, microcontrollers,
Dupont wires, and odd little sensors that would qualify me as a very
strange hoarder if viewed objectively.
Ummm ... do you have conversations with them ? :-)
Do "insane cat lady" have conversations with them ?
Oh, hang on, she probably does. ;-P
Watch it! I do talk to the cat(s) at times. The problem with putting cat
food outside around here is you wind up with more cats than the intended
one, to say nothing of trash pandas and skunks. Fortunately no bears, although that is a problem in some parts of town.
On 11/12/2025 12:37 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
<Snip>
I have a garbage container, and I basically need to purchase garbageI have about 30-40 of the old "Single Use" shopping bags (I kept
bags of certain sizes. Not that easy to reuse plastic bags from
supermarkets.
forgetting to take them back next time I went shopping!!) so I use them
as 'kitchen bin liners'. Slowly working my way through them .... just
don't produce much waste!!
And now we have Four (Count them, four) rubbish bins ... General waste,
Food & Garden waste (i.e. decomposable stuff), Cardboard & Plastic
Waste, and Glass waste.
I think only the 'Food & Garden waste' gets collected every week, the
others alternate. ..... or something like that. ;-)
On 09/12/2025 11:53, Daniel70 wrote:
On 9/12/2025 9:09 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/12/2025 08:35, c186282 wrote:
On 12/8/25 17:41, rbowman wrote:There is no 'tire diameter'
On Mon, 8 Dec 2025 14:59:12 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
No, this is intentional calibration of the car speedometer
to 5 kilometres low. The reason is that if you see a road
limit of 100Km/h and you do drive at 100Km/h sharp, there
is no possibility of you driving just a bit above the limit
and be fined. You could then sue the car maker for having
bad instrumentation that caused you to be fined.
That's the reason I've heard for Japanese bike speedometers
being off. The speedometer in the Toyota is accurate when I'm
running the 15" tires it's calibrated for.
Yep, tire diameter IS critical.
Only circumference.
.... and, as circumference is dependant on diameter/radius ......
which a tyre DOES NOT HAVE. Any more than a tank track does.
On 2025-12-09 12:50, Daniel70 wrote:
On 9/12/2025 12:59 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-08 14:20, Daniel70 wrote:
Hmm! Back in the day, friends who were Policemen told me that, using a
Speed Gun, they usually allow 2-3km .... just to be sure.
In Spain, there is a regulation by which they have to apply a perceptual error, I think it is 7%. Otherwise, the fine is rejected when questioned
in court.
The exact percent varies with the years, but there are articles in
magazines that tell you the exact error applied at various speeds.
On 09/12/2025 11:57, Daniel70 wrote:
On 9/12/2025 9:08 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/12/2025 22:39, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 9 Dec 2025 00:20:38 +1100, Daniel70 wrote:There is no such thing as diameter on a tyre. It isn't circular.
I usually put it down to my Tyres being under-inflated, so their
diameter is less so it takes more revolutions of the tyre to
cover a specified distance.
I don't think under inflation would change the diameter enough to
throw the speed off that much. In my case the diameter of the 14"
wheels is noticeably less than the 15". I see that in the spring
when I'm going back to the 15". If I jack the car up enough so the
14" leaves the ground and I can remove it sometimes I have to jack
a little more to get the 15" on.
Might as well ask yourself 'what is the diameter of a tank track'
What counts is circumference and the tyre is elastic enough to expand
a little under high pressure.
.... and that pressure would get higher due to usage heating the tyre.
And to wear a little lower.
... which would reduce the tyres diameter, so decreasing the Ground
speed.
THE TYRE HAS NO DIAMETER., It is not circular.
On 11/12/2025 02:37, rbowman wrote:
Meanwhile I have a lawn full of deer shit. It mulches well and doesn't
burn the grass so I look at it as a plus. Cycle of nature and all. They
eat the ornamental crabapples and provide the fertilizer that keeps the
crabapple tree happy.
When my farmer neighbour was alive, and not his bitch-from-hell wife, I would walk the dogs alomg his farm tracks., We met one day as the black
lab decided to take a shit in his wheat field "Nice: Free fertiliser"
was his comment. He had a couple of his own.
On 12/10/2025 8:49 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-10 13:03, c186282 wrote:What about deer, rabbit, fox, raccoon, etc, poop. Do you worry about stepping in that?
On 12/10/25 06:16, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/12/2025 06:42, c186282 wrote:
On 12/10/25 00:27, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
Well you gotta love the people from the village who bring their dogs
Cannot imagine MUCH impact on the wildlife from
ordinary thin plastic bags. They tear easily, even
a mouse could get free. My guess is that you got
an OD of Greenie Propaganda.
walking in the woods, and scoop the poop into plastic nags, and
finding no bins for them , *hang them on the trees* thereby
increasing total pollution and stopping the natural processes of
poop digestion happening.
Oh ... wow ...........
Maybe WAY too much acid back in the day ???
Oh, in my area there are few trees. I saw the black poo bags in the
ground and was astonished.
Although I have to say that it is not nice to be walking on the
country and have to keep watching for poo and avoiding it. The dogs
poo right in the middle of the path, not like wild creatures.
On Wed, 10 Dec 2025 11:16:39 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Well you gotta love the people from the village who bring their dogs
walking in the woods, and scoop the poop into plastic nags, and finding
no bins for them , *hang them on the trees* thereby increasing total
pollution and stopping the natural processes of poop digestion
happening.
One of the popular trailheads in town has a collection of colorful bags of dog shit and a sign giving the daily count. I think it's a nearby resident that walks their dog and collects the bags the idiots leave.
The dispensers have pictographs of using the provided bags but fails to
show the 'take it with you' part. Sometimes the black Lab is the smarter
of the pair.
On 10/12/2025 12:48 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-09 12:50, Daniel70 wrote:
On 9/12/2025 12:59 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-08 14:20, Daniel70 wrote:
Hmm! Back in the day, friends who were Policemen told me that, using a
Speed Gun, they usually allow 2-3km .... just to be sure.
In Spain, there is a regulation by which they have to apply a
perceptual error, I think it is 7%. Otherwise, the fine is rejected
when questioned in court.
WOW!!
So the people know how much they can speed before they get booked for Speeding!! WOW!!
The exact percent varies with the years, but there are articles in
magazines that tell you the exact error applied at various speeds.
On 10/12/2025 1:09 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/12/2025 11:57, Daniel70 wrote:Say WHAT?? Is it elliptical or something??
On 9/12/2025 9:08 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/12/2025 22:39, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 9 Dec 2025 00:20:38 +1100, Daniel70 wrote:There is no such thing as diameter on a tyre. It isn't circular.
I usually put it down to my Tyres being under-inflated, so their
diameter is less so it takes more revolutions of the tyre to
cover a specified distance.
I don't think under inflation would change the diameter enough to
throw the speed off that much. In my case the diameter of the 14"
wheels is noticeably less than the 15". I see that in the spring
when I'm going back to the 15". If I jack the car up enough so the
14" leaves the ground and I can remove it sometimes I have to jack
a little more to get the 15" on.
Might as well ask yourself 'what is the diameter of a tank track'
What counts is circumference and the tyre is elastic enough to expand
a little under high pressure.
.... and that pressure would get higher due to usage heating the tyre.
And to wear a little lower.
... which would reduce the tyres diameter, so decreasing the Ground
speed.
THE TYRE HAS NO DIAMETER., It is not circular.
On 10/12/2025 12:48 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-09 12:50, Daniel70 wrote:
On 9/12/2025 12:59 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-08 14:20, Daniel70 wrote:
Hmm! Back in the day, friends who were Policemen told me that, using a
Speed Gun, they usually allow 2-3km .... just to be sure.
In Spain, there is a regulation by which they have to apply a
perceptual error, I think it is 7%. Otherwise, the fine is rejected
when questioned in court.
WOW!!
So the people know how much they can speed before they get booked for Speeding!! WOW!!
The exact percent varies with the years, but there are articles in
magazines that tell you the exact error applied at various speeds.
On 10/12/2025 1:08 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/12/2025 11:53, Daniel70 wrote:Sorry. Am I missing the point you are trying to make??
On 9/12/2025 9:09 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/12/2025 08:35, c186282 wrote:
On 12/8/25 17:41, rbowman wrote:There is no 'tire diameter'
On Mon, 8 Dec 2025 14:59:12 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
No, this is intentional calibration of the car speedometer
to 5 kilometres low. The reason is that if you see a road
limit of 100Km/h and you do drive at 100Km/h sharp, there
is no possibility of you driving just a bit above the limit
and be fined. You could then sue the car maker for having
bad instrumentation that caused you to be fined.
That's the reason I've heard for Japanese bike speedometers
being off. The speedometer in the Toyota is accurate when I'm
running the 15" tires it's calibrated for.
Yep, tire diameter IS critical.
Only circumference.
.... and, as circumference is dependant on diameter/radius ......
which a tyre DOES NOT HAVE. Any more than a tank track does.
When I but new tyres (which I'll have to do, again, soon.) I buy 15 inch tyres (I think). Is this not the diameter of the Hubs on to which the
tyres are fitted??
So the inner circumference of the Tyres 'hole' is about 15 inch diameter.
On 10/12/2025 1:09 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
THE TYRE HAS NO DIAMETER., It is not circular.Say WHAT?? Is it elliptical or something??
On 2025-12-10 16:10, knuttle wrote:
On 12/10/2025 8:49 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-10 13:03, c186282 wrote:What about deer, rabbit, fox, raccoon, etc, poop. Do you worry about
On 12/10/25 06:16, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/12/2025 06:42, c186282 wrote:
On 12/10/25 00:27, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
Well you gotta love the people from the village who bring their
Cannot imagine MUCH impact on the wildlife from
ordinary thin plastic bags. They tear easily, even
a mouse could get free. My guess is that you got
an OD of Greenie Propaganda.
dogs walking in the woods, and scoop the poop into plastic nags,
and finding no bins for them , *hang them on the trees* thereby
increasing total pollution and stopping the natural processes of
poop digestion happening.
Oh ... wow ...........
Maybe WAY too much acid back in the day ???
Oh, in my area there are few trees. I saw the black poo bags in the
ground and was astonished.
Although I have to say that it is not nice to be walking on the
country and have to keep watching for poo and avoiding it. The dogs
poo right in the middle of the path, not like wild creatures.
stepping in that?
Nope, they don't poo in human pathways, normally. Too exposed?
Some animals cover their poo with earth. The pathway has hard earth,
some have asphalt.
Oh, in my area there are few trees. I saw the black poo bags in the
ground and was astonished.
Although I have to say that it is not nice to be walking on the
country and have to keep watching for poo and avoiding it. The dogs
poo right in the middle of the path, not like wild creatures.
One of the popular trailheads in town has a collection of colorful bags of >> dog shit and a sign giving the daily count. I think it's a nearby resident >> that walks their dog and collects the bags the idiots leave.
The dispensers have pictographs of using the provided bags but fails to
show the 'take it with you' part. Sometimes the black Lab is the smarter
of the pair.
Depends. Some cities put the bag dispenser with a bin in the same post,
so obviously that bin is for the poo bags.
I have about 30-40 of the old "Single Use" shopping bags (I kept
forgetting to take them back next time I went shopping!!) so I use them
as 'kitchen bin liners'. Slowly working my way through them .... just
don't produce much waste!!
And now we have Four (Count them, four) rubbish bins ... General waste,
Food & Garden waste (i.e. decomposable stuff), Cardboard & Plastic
Waste, and Glass waste.
I think only the 'Food & Garden waste' gets collected every week, the
others alternate. ..... or something like that. ;-)
Otherwise a flat tyre would tear itself off the rim'
Umm ... they DO ... or at least TRY. It's just
that the rim is too stiff to 'tear' much unless
under extreme load. HAVE seen it on 18-wheelers ...
entire giant tire breaking loose, then rolling
at 80mph and bouncing randomly off an overpass.
Deadly if you were in the path .....
Once I overtook a lorry, very early morning. One of the rear wheels
was... how can I say... the sides of the rubber were intact, but the
part that touches the asphalt was loose, turning wildly at the 100Km/h
the lorry was doing. We were bewildered, not knowing what to do.
On 12/10/25 07:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/12/2025 12:03, c186282 wrote:
Oh, we're kinda using up all the wood.
Nope., We are growing as much pulpwood as we use.
"We" ???
So why are global forests being razed ???
Seems a LOT of people aren't growing wood
as fast as they use it. If your country is
short, get some OTHER country to raze its
forests ... gets past most press scrutiny.
Then there are the highly coveted, marked-up,
'tropical' woods. Whole rainforests are being
razed and 'we' can't grow those trees in
temperate zones.
Sorry, there IS a problem ... we've just become
better at HIDING it.
So, I'm still gonna promote 'alternate' materials
'kind of' like wood.
I can buy 'plastic lumber' from the local home store.
It's almost pure polyethylene, old milk jugs. It is
easy to work and does not rot. Alas it's not very
STIFF ... bends far more easily than even softwood
lumber. Likely not as much tensile strength either.
Stressed fibers inside the boards COULD help with
that, but makes it more expensive.
Wood is a fascinating study - highly-evolved
nano-structured material for load-bearing. We
just can't MAKE anything quite like it on
an industrial scale - probably not for quite
awhile.
A nice big house built of 4x12 Ironwood beams
IS attractive ... strong as hell, won't burn,
won't rot, enough flex to survive quakes, maybe
even dense enough to resist nuke-bomb radiation -
ought to last 1000+ years. Alas there aren't
that many ironwood trees and they take hundreds
of years to grow. Bummer.
On 12/10/2025 8:49 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Oh, in my area there are few trees. I saw the black poo bags in the
ground and was astonished.
Although I have to say that it is not nice to be walking on the
country and have to keep watching for poo and avoiding it. The dogs
poo right in the middle of the path, not like wild creatures.
When I see that, I gennerally assume that was left by someone on their
way into the trail, who did not want the bag of sh*t in their pocket for
the hour they will be spending there, and they intend to pick it up on
their way back. And then they may forget it on their way back.
So if I see it again on MY way back, I'll pick it up for them.
We have a number of nice trail options here:
- Foothill trails, going from the suburban streets up to the crest of a
4000 ft (1200 m) front range, which is part of Los Padres National
Forest. Often have sections that is just a 1-foot wide ledge carved
into the side of the canyon carved by a mostly seasonal creek.
Dogs are officially supposed to be on leash.
- An old dump turned into a park managed by a private foundation.
Dogs are explicitly allowed to be off-leash so long as they are
well-behaved, but you pay for the privilege: Each dog must have a tag
that costs USD 145 per year. Half the park is "wild" with grass that
is mostly unkempt, except that every year or two they bring in 100
sheep and goats for two weeks to "mow" it, the other half has
3 softball (i.e. baseball) fields and two soccer/rugby/lacrosse
fields, two smallish meadows kept free of weeds, an amphitheater
that seats 200, and a "memorial trail" honoring war veterans, where
plaques lists the names of every soldier from the county that died
each year in Vietnam. We gladly pay the fee for our two dogs,
because of the greatly reduced risk of getting foxtails up (ryegrass
seedheads) up the dogs' noses. My previous beagle had to have one
surgically removed at a cost of USD 800 for a visit to the emergency
dog surgery.
The downside is that they often rent out the area with
the meadows and amphitheater for weddings, collecting $7,000 to
$20,000 for an event that closes "the upper park" to the public for a
Saturday, and sometimes a Sunday. And if there happens to be a
softball tournament AND a youth soccer tournament on the same
week-end, we dog-owners better find another place.
The total area is about 80 acres (30+ ha).
- The "Douglas Family Preserve". 70 acres of coastal blufftop.
Was an abandoned plant nursery. Someone wanted to build a gated
condominium community there, and the local public raised $17 mio to
buy it to prevent that. Since the core group of fundraisers were dog
owners who had been trespassing to run their dogs there, most of the
area is off-leash permitted. My previous beagles loved to burrow into
the dense scrub areas to chase jackrabbits for hours at a time.
One of them died from Leptospirosis after drinking from a stagnant
pond ("vernal pool") in the springtime. (Hemorrhagic fever is very
ugly.)
The nice park has trash cans for dogpoo and compostable bags all over.
The other parks have bags and trash cans at the entrances. The mountain trails expect you to kick the shit into the bushes of down the hillside.
On 2025-12-11 03:30, rbowman wrote:
One of the popular trailheads in town has a collection of colorful bags of >>> dog shit and a sign giving the daily count. I think it's a nearby resident >>> that walks their dog and collects the bags the idiots leave.
The dispensers have pictographs of using the provided bags but fails to
show the 'take it with you' part. Sometimes the black Lab is the smarter >>> of the pair.
On 2025-12-11, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Depends. Some cities put the bag dispenser with a bin in the same post,
so obviously that bin is for the poo bags.
We have a "dog beach" here. At Arroyo Burro Beach County Park, the area
to the right of the parking lot is reserved for people. There is a restaurant, a grassy picnic area and a beach where dogs must be on
leash. To the other side, there is about a mile of beach allowing
offf-leash dogs. The parking lot has about 12 trash cans marked as
dedicated to "Animal Waste".
It is a great place for dogs to run a little wild. Confined between
the Pacific Ocean and a sandstone cliff. My late beagle often tried to
scale the cliff, and once fell on a rock from 15 feet up. Broke a rib,
and was forever sore in that area if you picked her up and did not
remember that. But that did not keep her from trying again in the same
spot later.
The downside of that beach, is that there is a natural oil seep in the
ocean and little lumps of tar the size of a BB pellet often mix in the
sand, so you need a bottle of baby oil handy to clean feet, paws and dog
fur to avaid getting tar on your car seats.
On 12/10/25 05:27, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Otherwise a flat tyre would tear itself off the rim'
On 2025-12-10 11:57, c186282 wrote:
Umm ... they DO ... or at least TRY. It's just
that the rim is too stiff to 'tear' much unless
under extreme load. HAVE seen it on 18-wheelers ...
entire giant tire breaking loose, then rolling
at 80mph and bouncing randomly off an overpass.
Deadly if you were in the path .....
On 2025-12-11, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Once I overtook a lorry, very early morning. One of the rear wheels
was... how can I say... the sides of the rubber were intact, but the
part that touches the asphalt was loose, turning wildly at the 100Km/h
the lorry was doing. We were bewildered, not knowing what to do.
Get away - fast! Put distance between yourself and that truck before
the inevitable bad event!! And be thankful you are not behind it.
On 2025-12-10 11:57, c186282 wrote:
On 12/10/25 05:27, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Otherwise a flat tyre would tear itself off the rim'
Umm ... they DO ... or at least TRY. It's just
that the rim is too stiff to 'tear' much unless
under extreme load. HAVE seen it on 18-wheelers ...
entire giant tire breaking loose, then rolling
at 80mph and bouncing randomly off an overpass.
Deadly if you were in the path .....
Once I overtook a lorry, very early morning. One of the rear wheels
was... how can I say... the sides of the rubber were intact, but the
part that touches the asphalt was loose, turning wildly at the 100Km/h
the lorry was doing. We were bewildered, not knowing what to do.
On 2025-12-11 03:30, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 10 Dec 2025 11:16:39 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Well you gotta love the people from the village who bring their dogs
walking in the woods, and scoop the poop into plastic nags, and
finding no bins for them , *hang them on the trees* thereby
increasing total pollution and stopping the natural processes of poop
digestion happening.
One of the popular trailheads in town has a collection of colorful bags
of dog shit and a sign giving the daily count. I think it's a nearby
resident that walks their dog and collects the bags the idiots leave.
The dispensers have pictographs of using the provided bags but fails to
show the 'take it with you' part. Sometimes the black Lab is the
smarter of the pair.
Depends. Some cities put the bag dispenser with a bin in the same post,
so obviously that bin is for the poo bags.
We have a "dog beach" here. At Arroyo Burro Beach County Park, the area
to the right of the parking lot is reserved for people. There is a restaurant, a grassy picnic area and a beach where dogs must be on
leash. To the other side, there is about a mile of beach allowing
offf-leash dogs. The parking lot has about 12 trash cans marked as
dedicated to "Animal Waste".
I made a new lawn, new topsoil, grass seed. The cat crapped in the
middle and made a nice little pile. When the grass sprouted that patch
was twice as tall..
On Thu, 11 Dec 2025 12:42:46 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I made a new lawn, new topsoil, grass seed. The cat crapped in the
middle and made a nice little pile. When the grass sprouted that patch
was twice as tall..
I don't know what it is about dogs that their crap tends to kill grass.
Cats, deer, raccoons, and so forth improve it. I would think one carnivore would be similar to the other.
On 2025-12-10 11:57, c186282 wrote:
On 12/10/25 05:27, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/12/2025 20:20, rbowman wrote:
Otherwise a flat tyre would tear itself off the rim'
Umm ... they DO ... or at least TRY. It's just that the rim is too
stiff to 'tear' much unless under extreme load. HAVE seen it on
18-wheelers ...
entire giant tire breaking loose, then rolling at 80mph and
bouncing randomly off an overpass. Deadly if you were in the path
.....
Once I overtook a lorry, very early morning. One of the rear wheels
was... how can I say... the sides of the rubber were intact, but the
part that touches the asphalt was loose, turning wildly at the 100Km/h
the lorry was doing. We were bewildered, not knowing what to do.
On Thu, 11 Dec 2025 12:37:05 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-11 03:30, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 10 Dec 2025 11:16:39 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Well you gotta love the people from the village who bring their dogs
walking in the woods, and scoop the poop into plastic nags, and
finding no bins for them , *hang them on the trees* thereby
increasing total pollution and stopping the natural processes of poop
digestion happening.
One of the popular trailheads in town has a collection of colorful bags
of dog shit and a sign giving the daily count. I think it's a nearby
resident that walks their dog and collects the bags the idiots leave.
The dispensers have pictographs of using the provided bags but fails to
show the 'take it with you' part. Sometimes the black Lab is the
smarter of the pair.
Depends. Some cities put the bag dispenser with a bin in the same post,
so obviously that bin is for the poo bags.
You vastly overestimate the intelligence of the average US citizen.
The next car my father bought, a Peugeot 205, was the first we had with hydraulic clutch, same reservoir as the brakes. Bought maybe 1984. I
remember the first time I drove it, my father warned me the brakes were brutal. Yet I was surprised by them, the car stopped brutally. Vacuum servo-assist.
On 11/12/2025 02:46, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 10 Dec 2025 16:58:37 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
It's another of those 'little knowledge, 'concerned', citizens' who
arrived along with a socialist government.
The US terminology is 'Karen'.
What is the male equivalent?
On 2025-12-11, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2025-12-10 11:57, c186282 wrote:
On 12/10/25 05:27, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Otherwise a flat tyre would tear itself off the rim'
Umm ... they DO ... or at least TRY. It's just
that the rim is too stiff to 'tear' much unless
under extreme load. HAVE seen it on 18-wheelers ...
entire giant tire breaking loose, then rolling
at 80mph and bouncing randomly off an overpass.
Deadly if you were in the path .....
Once I overtook a lorry, very early morning. One of the rear wheels
was... how can I say... the sides of the rubber were intact, but the
part that touches the asphalt was loose, turning wildly at the 100Km/h
the lorry was doing. We were bewildered, not knowing what to do.
That sounds like a retread de-laminating. Sometimes the entire tread
will peel off in one piece - I see them lying beside the road sometimes.
Or they'll break up bit by bit, throwing chunks several inches long in
every direction. One night I found myself behind a truck where this was happening. It was raining heavily, making for a surreal sight: steaming chunks of rubber flying everywhere before coming to rest on the road.
At my mother village, when we stayed maybe on 1969, there was no water
at the houses, no bathrooms. Some had electricity only for lights. So we
did our things on the pile of manure in the stable, then covered it with
a spade. I think there was a pig there and a horse.
"Self" seems to appeal to Gen-Z especially - who have a documented
phobia of dealing with other humans. Many won't even answer a phone
call. NOT sure where that came from ... Covid fallout ???
The problem is certain items are 'adult only' and require staff
intervention. Aspirin, paracetamol, alcohol and FFS even *matches*
cannot be sold to kids.
On 12/10/25 08:49, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-10 13:03, c186282 wrote:
On 12/10/25 06:16, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/12/2025 06:42, c186282 wrote:
On 12/10/25 00:27, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
Cannot imagine MUCH impact on the wildlife from ordinary thinWell you gotta love the people from the village who bring their dogs
plastic bags. They tear easily, even a mouse could get free. My >>>>> guess is that you got an OD of Greenie Propaganda.
walking in the woods, and scoop the poop into plastic nags, and
finding no bins for them , *hang them on the trees* thereby
increasing total pollution and stopping the natural processes of poop
digestion happening.
Oh ... wow ...........
Maybe WAY too much acid back in the day ???
Oh, in my area there are few trees. I saw the black poo bags in the
ground and was astonished.
I'm still trying to comprehend the confluence of warped mindsets
involved in CREATING such a phenom.
Somebody kind of literally let the inmates run the asylum !
On Wed, 10 Dec 2025 23:51:25 -0500, c186282 wrote:
On 12/10/25 08:49, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-10 13:03, c186282 wrote:
On 12/10/25 06:16, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/12/2025 06:42, c186282 wrote:
On 12/10/25 00:27, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
Cannot imagine MUCH impact on the wildlife from ordinary thin >>>>>> plastic bags. They tear easily, even a mouse could get free. My >>>>>> guess is that you got an OD of Greenie Propaganda.Well you gotta love the people from the village who bring their dogs >>>>> walking in the woods, and scoop the poop into plastic nags, and
finding no bins for them , *hang them on the trees* thereby
increasing total pollution and stopping the natural processes of poop >>>>> digestion happening.
Oh ... wow ...........
Maybe WAY too much acid back in the day ???
Oh, in my area there are few trees. I saw the black poo bags in the
ground and was astonished.
I'm still trying to comprehend the confluence of warped mindsets
involved in CREATING such a phenom.
Somebody kind of literally let the inmates run the asylum !
https://www.flickr.com/photos/splatt/3672608548
On Thu, 11 Dec 2025 12:23:16 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
At my mother village, when we stayed maybe on 1969, there was no water
at the houses, no bathrooms. Some had electricity only for lights. So we
did our things on the pile of manure in the stable, then covered it with
a spade. I think there was a pig there and a horse.
The Asians never had a problem with human manure. Shit is shit. Western cultures have some strange hangups.
On Thu, 11 Dec 2025 01:28:49 -0500, c186282 wrote:
"Self" seems to appeal to Gen-Z especially - who have a documented
phobia of dealing with other humans. Many won't even answer a phone
call. NOT sure where that came from ... Covid fallout ???
I can live without much human interaction, thank you.
On 2025-12-11 03:30, rbowman wrote:
One of the popular trailheads in town has a collection of colorful bags of >>> dog shit and a sign giving the daily count. I think it's a nearby resident >>> that walks their dog and collects the bags the idiots leave.
The dispensers have pictographs of using the provided bags but fails to
show the 'take it with you' part. Sometimes the black Lab is the smarter >>> of the pair.
On 2025-12-11, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Depends. Some cities put the bag dispenser with a bin in the same post,
so obviously that bin is for the poo bags.
We have a "dog beach" here. At Arroyo Burro Beach County Park, the area
to the right of the parking lot is reserved for people. There is a >restaurant, a grassy picnic area and a beach where dogs must be on
leash. To the other side, there is about a mile of beach allowing
offf-leash dogs. The parking lot has about 12 trash cans marked as
dedicated to "Animal Waste".
It is a great place for dogs to run a little wild. Confined between
the Pacific Ocean and a sandstone cliff. My late beagle often tried to
scale the cliff, and once fell on a rock from 15 feet up. Broke a rib,
and was forever sore in that area if you picked her up and did not
remember that. But that did not keep her from trying again in the same
spot later.
The downside of that beach, is that there is a natural oil seep in the
ocean and little lumps of tar the size of a BB pellet often mix in the
sand, so you need a bottle of baby oil handy to clean feet, paws and dog
fur to avaid getting tar on your car seats.
Softwood plantations are a major industry in Canada, and in IIRC
Norway,. which is where our constructional lumber and pulp paper comes
from.
On Thu, 11 Dec 2025 11:11:00 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
The next car my father bought, a Peugeot 205, was the first we had with
hydraulic clutch, same reservoir as the brakes. Bought maybe 1984. I
remember the first time I drove it, my father warned me the brakes were
brutal. Yet I was surprised by them, the car stopped brutally. Vacuum
servo-assist.
I don't think they do it as much anymore but automatic transmission cars
used to have very wide brake pedals, presumably to allow for braking with your left foot. Brutal was when your manual transmission muscle memory
kicked in, you attempted to hit the clutch pedal, and got the brake
instead.
On 2025-12-10 11:30, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/12/2025 23:01, Char Jackson wrote:
Within the last few years, they've been replaced by a TPS, throttleSomething has to modulate the air input on a petrol engine.
position sensor, that simply provides an electrical representation of
the throttle position to the ECU. They seem to call it TBW, throttle by
wire.
I dont think they use servos.
On a diesel, well its different.
Clutches have been hydraulic for quite a few years, so that cable is
gone, as well. Good riddance to all of them. It's one less maintenance
item.
I haven't seen a mechanically coupled clutch (or brakes) on a 4
wheeled vehicle since...forever! 1955 or there about maybe.
Standard on bikes tho I agree.
My father's car in which I started driving had mechanical clutch.
Probably cable. An Austin 1300. Hydraulic brakes, no servo assist.
The next car my father bought, a Peugeot 205, was the first we had with hydraulic clutch, same reservoir as the brakes. Bought maybe 1984. I remember the first time I drove it, my father warned me the brakes were brutal. Yet I was surprised by them, the car stopped brutally. Vacuum servo-assist.
My first car too also had cable clutch. A Renault Super 5 TL. This car
was bought around 1985.
Non had assisted steering.
On 2025-12-10 11:57, c186282 wrote:
On 12/10/25 05:27, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/12/2025 20:20, rbowman wrote:
Otherwise a flat tyre would tear itself off the rim'
Umm ... they DO ... or at least TRY. It's just
that the rim is too stiff to 'tear' much unless
under extreme load. HAVE seen it on 18-wheelers ...
entire giant tire breaking loose, then rolling
at 80mph and bouncing randomly off an overpass.
Deadly if you were in the path .....
Once I overtook a lorry, very early morning. One of the rear wheels
was... how can I say... the sides of the rubber were intact, but the
part that touches the asphalt was loose, turning wildly at the 100Km/h
the lorry was doing. We were bewildered, not knowing what to do.
On 2025-12-10 06:22, c186282 wrote:
On 12/9/25 21:20, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-09 20:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/12/2025 14:50, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-09 15:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:No you cannot.
On 09/12/2025 11:57, Daniel70 wrote:
On 9/12/2025 9:08 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/12/2025 22:39, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 9 Dec 2025 00:20:38 +1100, Daniel70 wrote:There is no such thing as diameter on a tyre. It isn't circular. >>>>>>>> Might as well ask yourself 'what is the diameter of a tank track' >>>>>>>>
I usually put it down to my Tyres being under-inflated, so >>>>>>>>>> their diameter is less so it takes more revolutions of the >>>>>>>>>> tyre to
cover a specified distance.
I don't think under inflation would change the diameter enough to >>>>>>>>> throw the speed off that much. In my case the diameter of the 14" >>>>>>>>> wheels is noticeably less than the 15". I see that in the spring >>>>>>>>> when I'm going back to the 15". If I jack the car up enough so the >>>>>>>>> 14" leaves the ground and I can remove it sometimes I have to jack >>>>>>>>> a little more to get the 15" on.
What counts is circumference and the tyre is elastic enough to >>>>>>>> expand
a little under high pressure.
.... and that pressure would get higher due to usage heating the >>>>>>> tyre.
And to wear a little lower.
... which would reduce the tyres diameter, so decreasing the
Ground speed.
THE TYRE HAS NO DIAMETER., It is not circular.
It doesn't matter. We can calculate it.
Yes, we can. It is a formula with π in it.
Any more than you can calculate the 'diameter' of a tank tread.
You might choose to evaluate (circumference over pi), but that is
just a number that has no meaning in this context. There is no
physical dimension that corresponds to it
Irrelevant.
We measure the actual distance travelled for a number of turns. From
that we calculate the effective circumference, and from that, the
effective radius.
None of those have to be the apparent length seen by a measuring tape
on the wheel.
Planning to lock the steering and send it 500km
towards Kyiv ???
:-D
If not, then the estimation based on raw diameter
or circumference will be Good Enough to guess if
yer new tires put you at legal risk.
It's just TOO easy to get hung up on the decimal points.
Here we can not just put any wheel on a car, it has to be an approved one.
On 11/12/2025 12:37 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
<Snip>
I have a garbage container, and I basically need to purchase garbageI have about 30-40 of the old "Single Use" shopping bags (I kept
bags of certain sizes. Not that easy to reuse plastic bags from
supermarkets.
forgetting to take them back next time I went shopping!!) so I use them
as 'kitchen bin liners'. Slowly working my way through them .... just
don't produce much waste!!
And now we have Four (Count them, four) rubbish bins ... General waste,
Food & Garden waste (i.e. decomposable stuff), Cardboard & Plastic
Waste, and Glass waste.
I think only the 'Food & Garden waste' gets collected every week, the
others alternate. ..... or something like that. ;-)
On 2025-12-11 22:28, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 11 Dec 2025 11:11:00 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
The next car my father bought, a Peugeot 205, was the first we had with
hydraulic clutch, same reservoir as the brakes. Bought maybe 1984. I
remember the first time I drove it, my father warned me the brakes were
brutal. Yet I was surprised by them, the car stopped brutally. Vacuum
servo-assist.
I don't think they do it as much anymore but automatic transmission cars
used to have very wide brake pedals, presumably to allow for braking with
your left foot. Brutal was when your manual transmission muscle memory
kicked in, you attempted to hit the clutch pedal, and got the brake
instead.
I never drove an automatic car.
I guess my left leg kicks differently than my right, because the pedals
have different feeling, specially when the brake was not assisted and I
had to push really hard (decades ago).
Steering was also an exercise. No servo. Cars were lighter, though. Not
over a ton.
Once had an old car that came with power steering - except the pump
was broken and I could not afford to replace it. THAT was a
muscle-building exercise for sure !
I never drove an automatic car.
I do not think a family sedan such as my parents used weighedunder 2
tons.
Of course that time was over 68 years ago. And steering was real
exercise and brakes were unassisted.
On Thu, 11 Dec 2025 23:02:06 -0500, c186282 wrote:
Once had an old car that came with power steering - except the pump
was broken and I could not afford to replace it. THAT was a
muscle-building exercise for sure !
I talked to my ex early this week and she was reminiscing about my '49 Chrysler New Yorker. Straight 8 cast iron engine, no power steering. Her memories of parallel parking it aren't great.
It was an interesting lash up as it had both a clutch and a fluid
coupling.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_Drive
On 2025-12-10, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Well you gotta love the people from the village who bring their dogs
walking in the woods, and scoop the poop into plastic nags, and finding
no bins for them , *hang them on the trees* thereby increasing total
pollution and stopping the natural processes of poop digestion happening.
Better still are the ones who drop the bags on the ground in front of a bin.
On Fri, 12 Dec 2025 03:42:57 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I never drove an automatic car.
She was around 70 when I had to convince my mother she could drive an automatic. She'd only been driving since 1921 and had taught her father
how to drive. She adapted to AT, power brakes, and power steering nicely.
My first car was an automatic but I eventually replaced the tired Torqueflight with a manual. Easier said than done.
On Wed, 10 Dec 2025 22:32:08 +1100, Daniel70 wrote:
Hate them!! Hate them! Hate them. I'll stand in line at a staffed
Check-Out (if there is one) rather than use those Auto-mated Check-Outs.
The way I figure it, the Supermarket has already added the 'Staffing
Costs' into the price of the things I buy, so I might as well make use
of the Staff that I'm paying for.
The markets have reduced the number of manned lanes and have done away
with the 'express' lanes. I'm not keen on standing in line behind someone >who was shopping for a family of nine to get my six items rung up. Even >worse is discovering you're behind someone with a EBT card that finds
their credit card declined for the stuff the EBT didn't cover.
On 2025-12-10, Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
On 10/12/2025 2:26 pm, c186282 wrote:
And if you really want to get arrested, use "automated self-checkout"
:-)
Hate them!! Hate them! Hate them. I'll stand in line at a staffed
Check-Out (if there is one) rather than use those Auto-mated Check-Outs.
Ditto. The last thing I need is to have some damned machine nattering
at me about how I should be putting my bag in the right place, and
holding my tongue correctly as I scan products in the direction of
corporate Mecca.
The way I figure it, the Supermarket has already added the 'Staffing
Costs' into the price of the things I buy, so I might as well make use
of the Staff that I'm paying for.
Besides, it gives kids jobs. And when things are quiet it's nice to
be able to chat with the staff. Much friendlier than a machine.
On 12/12/25 01:52, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 11 Dec 2025 23:02:06 -0500, c186282 wrote:
Once had an old car that came with power steering - except the
pump was broken and I could not afford to replace it. THAT was a
muscle-building exercise for sure !
I talked to my ex early this week and she was reminiscing about my '49
Chrysler New Yorker. Straight 8 cast iron engine, no power steering.
Her memories of parallel parking it aren't great.
It was an interesting lash up as it had both a clutch and a fluid
coupling.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_Drive
Hmm ... my mother was about 5'3" but managed just fine without power
steering, at least on 'smaller' US cars of the time. Apparently her
first car was a Model-T Coupe - came with a fold-out shelf, maybe
called a 'rumble seat', in the back so you could carry two or three
extra people. Power NOTHING. Safety - well, don't hit anything !
On 11/12/2025 02:46, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 10 Dec 2025 16:58:37 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
It's another of those 'little knowledge, 'concerned', citizens' who
arrived along with a socialist government.
The US terminology is 'Karen'.
What is the male equivalent?
On 12/11/25 13:35, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 11 Dec 2025 01:28:49 -0500, c186282 wrote:
"Self" seems to appeal to Gen-Z especially - who have a
documented phobia of dealing with other humans. Many won't even
answer a phone call. NOT sure where that came from ... Covid
fallout ???
I can live without much human interaction, thank you.
I can too but the reason phones are not answered unless there is an identificable call is the frequency of robocalls.
I just saw a phone saying KPIX, a local TV station, was calling but
it was a hacked line trying to drum up business for an injury
attorney or phisher.
On 12/12/2025 9:07 am, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 12/11/25 13:35, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 11 Dec 2025 01:28:49 -0500, c186282 wrote:
"Self" seems to appeal to Gen-Z especially - who have a
documented phobia of dealing with other humans. Many won't even
answer a phone call. NOT sure where that came from ... Covid
fallout ???
I can live without much human interaction, thank you.
I can too but the reason phones are not answered unless there is an
identificable call is the frequency of robocalls.
For some unknown reason, the main fitting for my Landline phone is in
the main bedroom. (Who spends 24/7 in their bedroom?? Not even the
Elderly, I suspect.
On 12/11/25 05:43, Daniel70 wrote:
On 11/12/2025 12:37 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
<Snip>
I have a garbage container, and I basically need to purchase garbageI have about 30-40 of the old "Single Use" shopping bags (I kept
bags of certain sizes. Not that easy to reuse plastic bags from
supermarkets.
forgetting to take them back next time I went shopping!!) so I use
them as 'kitchen bin liners'. Slowly working my way through them ....
just don't produce much waste!!
And now we have Four (Count them, four) rubbish bins ... General
waste, Food & Garden waste (i.e. decomposable stuff), Cardboard &
Plastic Waste, and Glass waste.
I think only the 'Food & Garden waste' gets collected every week, the
others alternate. ..... or something like that. ;-)
I've never SEEN a "single use" bag.
Anyway, check Amazon ... search for 'green'
or 'compostable' bags. They come in lots of
sizes. Best compromise these days ... practical
but at least KIND OF 'green'.
WAS buying a brand, which disappeared, but they--
were SO thin you'd often have to tie the bag,
then tie another bag around it just to deal
with the little holes. The new ones are thicker.
On 12/10/25 06:14, Daniel70 wrote:
On 10/12/2025 1:10 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-08 14:55, Lars Poulsen wrote:Over the last few weeks, I've noticed the local Supermarket handing
On Sun, 7 Dec 2025 14:37:25 -0500, Paul wrote:
The plastic baskets are electronically marked, and the detectors
at the
store exit beep if you try to walk out with the plastic basket.
On 2025-12-08, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
I'll have to look more closely. I was surprised they had enough
shrinkage
for it to be a concern. The carts, otoh, easily convert to a Homeless >>>>> Hilux.
I, too, have noticed that many stores have a distinct shortage of
handbaskets. I remember that back in the 1960s, I read about a study
that showed that people with shopping carts bought more than people
using handbaskets. This prompted stores to promote shopping carts.
The consumer groups suggested that it might be because people were more >>>> likely to use a cart if they knew on their way in that they were buying >>>> more than would fit in a handbasket.
This days, I shop with the reusable bag that they told us to use
instead of one use plastic bags. That way, I know how heavy my bag is
getting, so that I can walk back home.
out what I can only ASSUME are a new style of single use plastic bags.
Maybe a different form of plastic .... which could be recyclable.
Hmmm ... what IS it ? Any idea ?
There are various kinds of 'recyclable' plastics.
Some recycle better than others. For what's going
to be holding kitchen trash you want something
that decomposes under moisture/UV/fungi after
maybe a year - but CLEAN decomposition.
They've gotten better at that, but I still have
not heard of a really 'clean' product that breaks
down to non-toxics/non-persistents.
Such 'plastics' probably exist, but may be too
expensive to produce.
'Green' is not inherently evil - though politics
often make it that way. If you CAN, easily, do
something 'green' then, well, why not ?
On 10/12/2025 11:40, c186282 wrote:
On 12/10/25 06:14, Daniel70 wrote:
On 10/12/2025 1:10 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I think there simply is no great commercial driver to design themThis days, I shop with the reusable bag that they told us toOver the last few weeks, I've noticed the local Supermarket
use instead of one use plastic bags. That way, I know how heavy
my bag is getting, so that I can walk back home.
handing out what I can only ASSUME are a new style of single use
plastic bags.
Maybe a different form of plastic .... which could be
recyclable.
Hmmm ... what IS it ? Any idea ?
There are various kinds of 'recyclable' plastics. Some recycle
better than others. For what's going to be holding kitchen trash
you want something that decomposes under moisture/UV/fungi after
maybe a year - but CLEAN decomposition.
They've gotten better at that, but I still have not heard of a
really 'clean' product that breaks down to
non-toxics/non-persistents.
Such 'plastics' probably exist, but may be too expensive to
produce.
Better to use paper or cardbaord for packaging Like egg cartons.
'Green' is not inherently evil - though politics often make it that
way. If you CAN, easily, do something 'green' then, well, why not
?
There are two 'Greens' One is about reducing undesirable impacts on
the environment (of which COI2 is probably not among their number)
and the other is about guilt tripping you into buying overpriced dysfunctional crap, and funding pointless academics to increase your
guilt...
On 2025-12-10 12:40, c186282 wrote:
On 12/10/25 06:14, Daniel70 wrote:
On 10/12/2025 1:10 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-08 14:55, Lars Poulsen wrote:
On Sun, 7 Dec 2025 14:37:25 -0500, Paul wrote:
Over the last few weeks, I've noticed the local Supermarket handing
out what I can only ASSUME are a new style of single use plastic bags.
Maybe a different form of plastic .... which could be recyclable.
Hmmm ... what IS it ? Any idea ?
There are various kinds of 'recyclable' plastics.
Some recycle better than others. For what's going
to be holding kitchen trash you want something
that decomposes under moisture/UV/fungi after
maybe a year - but CLEAN decomposition.
I once bought such bags, and they decomposed in my kitchen, before I
could fill them completely. I don't generate that many organic waste,
takes a week or two to fill a bag.
They've gotten better at that, but I still have
not heard of a really 'clean' product that breaks
down to non-toxics/non-persistents.
Such 'plastics' probably exist, but may be too
expensive to produce.
'Green' is not inherently evil - though politics
often make it that way. If you CAN, easily, do
something 'green' then, well, why not ?
Right.
On 11/12/2025 11:18, Daniel70 wrote:
On 10/12/2025 1:08 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Yes. Rims don;t deform. Tyres do, So a rin can be said to have an
On 09/12/2025 11:53, Daniel70 wrote:Sorry. Am I missing the point you are trying to make??
On 9/12/2025 9:09 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/12/2025 08:35, c186282 wrote:
On 12/8/25 17:41, rbowman wrote:There is no 'tire diameter'
On Mon, 8 Dec 2025 14:59:12 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
No, this is intentional calibration of the car speedometer
to 5 kilometres low. The reason is that if you see a road
limit of 100Km/h and you do drive at 100Km/h sharp, there
is no possibility of you driving just a bit above the limit
and be fined. You could then sue the car maker for having
bad instrumentation that caused you to be fined.
That's the reason I've heard for Japanese bike speedometers
being off. The speedometer in the Toyota is accurate when I'm
running the 15" tires it's calibrated for.
Yep, tire diameter IS critical.
Only circumference.
.... and, as circumference is dependant on diameter/radius ......
which a tyre DOES NOT HAVE. Any more than a tank track does.
When I but new tyres (which I'll have to do, again, soon.) I buy 15 inch
tyres (I think). Is this not the diameter of the Hubs on to which the
tyres are fitted??
overall diameter that the tyre does not
So the inner circumference of the Tyres 'hole' is about 15 inch diameter.
WE are not talking about 'inner circumferences'. But of the bit that
rolls along the road.
If you want to play semantics try alt.pedant ==>
On Thu, 11 Dec 2025 11:11:00 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
The next car my father bought, a Peugeot 205, was the first we had with
hydraulic clutch, same reservoir as the brakes. Bought maybe 1984. I
remember the first time I drove it, my father warned me the brakes were
brutal. Yet I was surprised by them, the car stopped brutally. Vacuum
servo-assist.
I don't think they do it as much anymore but automatic transmission cars
used to have very wide brake pedals, presumably to allow for braking with your left foot. Brutal was when your manual transmission muscle memory
kicked in, you attempted to hit the clutch pedal, and got the brake
instead.
On Thu, 11 Dec 2025 09:17:38 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Softwood plantations are a major industry in Canada, and in IIRC
Norway,. which is where our constructional lumber and pulp paper comes
from.
No, Canada cuts down the existing forests. The problem in northern forests
is it takes up to 100 years to get marketable timber. Plantations work in
the southeast US where there is plenty of water and a longer growing
season.
Here we can not just put any wheel on a car, it has to be an approved
one.
Still emulating the fascists I see ... what
was the point in fighting them way back when ?
USA you can get any brand, almost any size.
You can mix sizes if you want.
On 12/12/2025 9:07 am, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 12/11/25 13:35, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 11 Dec 2025 01:28:49 -0500, c186282 wrote:
"Self" seems to appeal to Gen-Z especially - who have a
documented phobia of dealing with other humans. Many won't even
answer a phone call. NOT sure where that came from ... Covid
fallout ???
I can live without much human interaction, thank you.
I can too but the reason phones are not answered unless there is an
identificable call is the frequency of robocalls.
For some unknown reason, the main fitting for my Landline phone is in
the main bedroom. (Who spends 24/7 in their bedroom?? Not even the
Elderly, I suspect.
When I first moved here and the phone rang, I'd make a mad dash into the Bedroom and pick up the phone handset, only to find is was a Scammer
calling.
So I brought one of those "Answer machine and Two handset" systems ....
so now, if I get a call, I can let the Answer machine pick up the call
and then, if it's a Real call, I can pick up the phone whilst 'they are leaving a message.
On 12/12/25 10:11, Daniel70 wrote:
On 12/12/2025 9:07 am, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 12/11/25 13:35, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 11 Dec 2025 01:28:49 -0500, c186282 wrote:
"Self" seems to appeal to Gen-Z especially - who have a
documented phobia of dealing with other humans. Many won't even
answer a phone call. NOT sure where that came from ... Covid
fallout ???
I can live without much human interaction, thank you.
I can too but the reason phones are not answered unless there is an
identificable call is the frequency of robocalls.
For some unknown reason, the main fitting for my Landline phone is in
the main bedroom. (Who spends 24/7 in their bedroom?? Not even the
Elderly, I suspect.
When I arranged a new FTTH connection for a friend. I put the main connection, the ONT in her main bedroom. I didn't do it because I
expected her to have one phone by her bed, but because it offered a
clean run of cable to the front of the house, a nice cupboard to hide it away in, and simple access to the loft through which I could run
ethernet cable to the rest of the house.
I left the single phone connection in the cupboard, a DECT wireless
device which covered the whole house.
I've used DECT/wireless/mobile for phones for two or three decades, do
other people still just have wired phones in their living room?
On 12/11/25 18:42, Carlos E.R. wrote:2 tons. Of course that time was over 68 years ago. And steering was
On 2025-12-11 22:28, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 11 Dec 2025 11:11:00 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
The next car my father bought, a Peugeot 205, was the first we had with >>>> hydraulic clutch, same reservoir as the brakes. Bought maybe 1984. I
remember the first time I drove it, my father warned me the brakes were >>>> brutal. Yet I was surprised by them, the car stopped brutally. Vacuum
servo-assist.
I don't think they do it as much anymore but automatic transmission cars >>> used to have very wide brake pedals, presumably to allow for braking
with
your left foot. Brutal was when your manual transmission muscle memory
kicked in, you attempted to hit the clutch pedal, and got the brake
instead.
I never drove an automatic car.
I guess my left leg kicks differently than my right, because the
pedals have different feeling, specially when the brake was not
assisted and I had to push really hard (decades ago).
Steering was also an exercise. No servo. Cars were lighter, though.
Not over a ton.
Ah you are a European with sensible designers. In the USA a car
that weighed under a ton would be foreign made except for a few
lightweights back in the 1930s.
I do not think a family sedan such as my parents used weighed under >
real exercise and brakes were unassisted.Uff.
On Thu, 11 Dec 2025 23:02:06 -0500, c186282 wrote:
Once had an old car that came with power steering - except the pump
was broken and I could not afford to replace it. THAT was a
muscle-building exercise for sure !
I talked to my ex early this week and she was reminiscing about my '49 Chrysler New Yorker. Straight 8 cast iron engine, no power steering. Her memories of parallel parking it aren't great.
It was an interesting lash up as it had both a clutch and a fluid
coupling.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_Drive
On 12/11/25 05:11, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-10 11:30, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/12/2025 23:01, Char Jackson wrote:
Within the last few years, they've been replaced by a TPS, throttleSomething has to modulate the air input on a petrol engine.
position sensor, that simply provides an electrical representation of
the throttle position to the ECU. They seem to call it TBW, throttle by >>>> wire.
I dont think they use servos.
On a diesel, well its different.
Clutches have been hydraulic for quite a few years, so that cable is
gone, as well. Good riddance to all of them. It's one less maintenance >>>> item.
I haven't seen a mechanically coupled clutch (or brakes) on a 4
wheeled vehicle since...forever! 1955 or there about maybe.
Standard on bikes tho I agree.
My father's car in which I started driving had mechanical clutch.
Probably cable. An Austin 1300. Hydraulic brakes, no servo assist.
The next car my father bought, a Peugeot 205, was the first we had
with hydraulic clutch, same reservoir as the brakes. Bought maybe
1984. I remember the first time I drove it, my father warned me the
brakes were brutal. Yet I was surprised by them, the car stopped
brutally. Vacuum servo-assist.
My first car too also had cable clutch. A Renault Super 5 TL. This car
was bought around 1985.
Non had assisted steering.
Once had an old car that came with power steering - except
the pump was broken and I could not afford to replace it.
THAT was a muscle-building exercise for sure ! :-)
Drove it for years. Huge engine ... indeed had to add an
electric fuel booster pump if I wanted full throttle for
more than ten seconds. Sold it to some guy who ran it
into a concrete pole at 45mph. The thing STILL ran, with
a big "U" in the front. You wouldn't WANT to drive it
of course. Good old American Heavy Metal :-)
Now smaller cars ... power steering/brakes are nice, but
not NECESSARY. It was quite easy to drive a mid 60s car
without such add-ons.
A lot of 'accessories' were added to automobiles not
so much because they were necessary - but instead
because they were an advertising point.
On 12/11/25 18:42, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-11 22:28, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 11 Dec 2025 11:11:00 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
The next car my father bought, a Peugeot 205, was the first we had with >>>> hydraulic clutch, same reservoir as the brakes. Bought maybe 1984. I
remember the first time I drove it, my father warned me the brakes were >>>> brutal. Yet I was surprised by them, the car stopped brutally. Vacuum
servo-assist.
I don't think they do it as much anymore but automatic transmission cars >>> used to have very wide brake pedals, presumably to allow for braking
with
your left foot. Brutal was when your manual transmission muscle memory
kicked in, you attempted to hit the clutch pedal, and got the brake
instead.
I never drove an automatic car.
I guess my left leg kicks differently than my right, because the
pedals have different feeling, specially when the brake was not
assisted and I had to push really hard (decades ago).
Steering was also an exercise. No servo. Cars were lighter, though.
Not over a ton.
Ah you are a European with sensible designers. In the USA a car that weighed
under a ton would be foreign made except for a few lightweights back in
the 1930s.
I do not think a family sedan such as my parents used weighed under 2 tons.
Of course that time was over 68 years ago. And steering was real
exercise and
brakes were unassisted.
On Thu, 11 Dec 2025 11:20:41 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-10 11:57, c186282 wrote:
On 12/10/25 05:27, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/12/2025 20:20, rbowman wrote:
Otherwise a flat tyre would tear itself off the rim'
Umm ... they DO ... or at least TRY. It's just that the rim is too
stiff to 'tear' much unless under extreme load. HAVE seen it on
18-wheelers ...
entire giant tire breaking loose, then rolling at 80mph and
bouncing randomly off an overpass. Deadly if you were in the path
.....
Once I overtook a lorry, very early morning. One of the rear wheels
was... how can I say... the sides of the rubber were intact, but the
part that touches the asphalt was loose, turning wildly at the 100Km/h
the lorry was doing. We were bewildered, not knowing what to do.
The resulting debris is referred to as an 'alligator' here.
https://www.sttc.com/where-do-road-alligators-come-from/
The site might be biased since they're retreaders. I don't know if it was legislation or economics but there used to be retreaded passenger car
tires but for big trucks retreads are widely used , usually on the
trailers.
Theoretically you're supposed to check the inflation daily but with 18
tires the common practice is to 'thump' them. A 6-cell Maglite is good for that. The correct inflation is 100-110 psi but a tire down to 60 psi still sounds the same. It has to be really low before you get sort of a dead
sound.
I haven't driven in 30 years so I don't know if TPMS are common now.
They're certainly available
https://www.noregon.com/commercial-tire-pressure-monitoring-systems/
Even in the '90s a new 22.5 tire ran about $275 so getting the most life
out of them made sense.
On 12/11/25 05:20, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-10 11:57, c186282 wrote:
On 12/10/25 05:27, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/12/2025 20:20, rbowman wrote:
Otherwise a flat tyre would tear itself off the rim'
Umm ... they DO ... or at least TRY. It's just
that the rim is too stiff to 'tear' much unless
under extreme load. HAVE seen it on 18-wheelers ...
entire giant tire breaking loose, then rolling
at 80mph and bouncing randomly off an overpass.
Deadly if you were in the path .....
Once I overtook a lorry, very early morning. One of the rear wheels
was... how can I say... the sides of the rubber were intact, but the
part that touches the asphalt was loose, turning wildly at the 100Km/h
the lorry was doing. We were bewildered, not knowing what to do.
Because of the mass of the vehicle, many truckers
don't even know they've had such a failure unless
huge flames are involved.
And I've seen just that.
The torn-loose tire was most impressive though,
actually overtook the truck, riding the margin,
then hit the railing of an overpass, bounced a
good 100' into the air and almost hit a car
up ahead.
On 12/11/25 05:22, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-10 06:22, c186282 wrote:
On 12/9/25 21:20, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-12-09 20:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/12/2025 14:50, Carlos E.R. wrote:
If not, then the estimation based on raw diameter
or circumference will be Good Enough to guess if
yer new tires put you at legal risk.
It's just TOO easy to get hung up on the decimal points.
Here we can not just put any wheel on a car, it has to be an approved
one.
Still emulating the fascists I see ... what
was the point in fighting them way back when ?
USA you can get any brand, almost any size.
You can mix sizes if you want.
Did they crash often, I wonder? Difficult to stop a 2 ton box of metal
in time.
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