From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

R.Wieser wrote:

You might not see this 'cuz a "real" newsreader would likely have emailed
the moderator directly

Why ?

Why would the moderator want to receive - and put into a newsgroup - a post which you could not read the responses to ?

Hi Rudy,
You know what I like about you? It's you ask questions about concepts that
I hadn't even thought of for a single moment, since I run a tight ship.

Given I care about privacy, I never use the same newsserver to read from as
I do to write to, so any given newsgroup could be on one but not the other.

But if you hadn't asked that question, I wouldn't have even thought to tell people this since I do a billion things for privacy by design like that.

Paganini *does* carry misc.taxes.moderated

Oh goodie. Now all you have to do is to post in that newsgroup and see if you get permission from the moderator. That is how it works.

Marco Moock already kindly tested it and said he didn't see it in his
searches. (See his post reproduced below since it only went to n.s.r).

How does a NORMAL newsreader handle this fallback to email for moderation?

:-) I suggest you first try to determine if such a NORMAL newsreader does indeed offer such a fall-back (it doesn't). *and only it does* try to figure out how its implemented..

See above. Marco Moock already disabused me of that assumption of how a
normal newsreader handles moderated newsgroups whose nntp server doesn't forward the articles.

It sounds to me that you have absolutily *zero* idea how a moderated newsgroup works...

This is true and I said so. Since I don't post to moderated newsgroups, the first time I needed to post was today when I was summarizing the two dozen known methods for USA citizens to file taxes in the USA this year where all
the normal Intuit personal methods require you to purchase a new PC if you don't have Windows 10 yet their business software works on Win10.

It was something I spent hours writing up and then it took me by surprise
that my privacy-based newsserver of choice (blueworld) post failed.

When I debugged what happened, I realized that a normal newsreader "might"
have handled moderation differently, where there appear to be 2 paths:
1. The newsreader handles the email itself, or,
2. The newsserver handles the email itself.

Thanks for recognizing that I am indeed clueless how this process works.

Had I known how it works, I would have written up a tutorial instead since
I'm a rare breed of person who delights in edifying everyone around me.

Below, for continuity, and to help answer your concerns, is Marco's
message.

From: Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de>
Newsgroups: news.software.readers
Subject: Re: The perils of writing your own newsreader - the perils of
posting to moderated newsgroups
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2026 21:24:30 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 62
Message-ID: <20260129212430.496f6fb5@ryz.dorfdsl.de>
References: <10lgb3k$1sok$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2026 20:24:32 +0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me;
posting-host="adbb16f8564e65e1a100820265895c75"; logging-data="1637696"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+REpfdYREratir4KZTv9dG"
Cancel-Lock: sha1:Xf4vBeEkUXWMKYc+jjesuUr5vuk=
X-Newsreader: Claws Mail 4.3.1 (GTK 3.24.51; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
Xref: sewer news.software.readers:12217

Crosspost to unrelated groups removed

On 29.01.2026 14:06 Uhr Maria Sophia wrote:

If Blueworld did carry misc.taxes.moderated then it would have
forwarded moderated posts to misc-taxes-moderated@moderators.isc.org
but since the low-activity moderated tax group is not carried, this
rule never applies.

You might not see this 'cuz a "real" newsreader would likely have
emailed the moderator directly which requires connecting to a working
MAPI mail client, which my homegrown newsreader never thought it
would need to do.

It is common that the servers carry the groups and you post your
message using NNTP to the group. The server then creates the mail and
doesn't add the post to the local spool nor distributes it to the peers.

Conclusion on the perils of writing your own home-grown newsreader...
a. The failure wasn't Blueworld's fault as it simply doesn't carry
misc.taxes.moderated, so there was no NNTP path for my post.

In such a case you should get a "No such group" or similar NNTP error
message.

b. A more full-featured newsreader would likely have fallen back to
sending the article via email to the moderator, but my home-grown
setup doesn't communicate with a local mail client, so that path
wasn't available.

c. Luckily, the next server I randomly tested (paganini.bofh.team)
*does* carry misc.taxes.moderated & handles the forwarding to the
moderator via email automatically, so the post appears to have gone
through.

That process is the default, as the moderated groups use this general
domain (and used moderators.uu.net before that, but still active).

I'll know in a couple of days if that post went through though, but I
figured I'd write up this one lesson in the perils of writing a
newsreader.

I've checked my mod relay (2 others exist), but I cannot see that
message. I assume one of the others were used, so in case it doesn't
work, ask Ivo to which one the message was relayed.

Have any of the readers who see this written their own newsreader?
How did you handle sending to moderated newsgroups with email
fallback?

How does a NORMAL newsreader handle this fallback to email for
moderation?

I've never seen such a functionality in the wild. The normal process is
to use NNTP to post - if that fails an error message will be shown.
--
kind regards
Marco

Send spam to 1769691988muell@stinkedores.dorfdsl.de
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 2026-01-29 22:55, Maria Sophia wrote:

R.Wieser wrote:

You might not see this 'cuz a "real" newsreader would likely have emailed >>> the moderator directly

Why ?

Why would the moderator want to receive - and put into a newsgroup - a post >> which you could not read the responses to ?

Hi Rudy,
You know what I like about you? It's you ask questions about concepts that
I hadn't even thought of for a single moment, since I run a tight ship.

Given I care about privacy, I never use the same newsserver to read from as
I do to write to, so any given newsgroup could be on one but not the other.

But if you hadn't asked that question, I wouldn't have even thought to tell people this since I do a billion things for privacy by design like that.

I asked Google "how do moderated groups work on Usenet?". Here is the
answer. My comments in curly brackets {}.

+++--------------
AI Overview

Moderated groups on Usenet function by requiring all submissions to be reviewed by a human moderator or automated system before appearing,
ensuring discussions remain on-topic and free of spam. When a user
posts, the message is routed to a specialized email address, where the moderator approves or rejects it.

{thus the email must be real and working. The moderator
must be able to email you, specially if the post is rejected.}

Key Aspects of Moderated Usenet Groups:

* The Workflow: Instead of appearing immediately, posts to moderated groups (e.g., rec.food.recipes) are sent to a moderator. The moderator
reviews them to ensure they follow the group's charter, then publishes approved messages to the Usenet server.

* Purpose: These groups are designed for higher quality, focused discussions, or to prevent spam and off-topic posts in niche areas.

Approval Process: If a message is approved, it is distributed to
the Usenet network. If rejected, it never reaches the public newsgroup.

* Creation: Moderated groups are created through a formal Request
for Discussion (RFD) and Call for Votes (CFV) process, which specifies
the moderation policy.

* Identification: While not always obvious, moderated groups are
often identified in newsgroup lists, and their content is generally
restricted to specific topics rather than open, unmoderated discussion.

Moderators can also choose to post a composite digest of articles rather
than individual submissions.
--------------++-

Links:

<https://www.lsu.edu/internet/guides/zen/zen-1.0_5.html>

<https://www.newsdemon.com/what-is-moderated-group>

<http://www.tcpipguide.com/free/t_UsenetAddressingNewsgroupsNewsgroupHierarchiesandT-4.htm>



When you configure an Usenet account in Thunderbird (I'm checking this
on Linux), there is an entry that is normally not used, where you define
the "Outgoing Server (SMTP)". This can be a local Sendmail, for example,
but can be any server on internet. Ie, it is the same configuration as
for a Mail Account. It has to be a real mail identity, and you must have whatever credentials the outgoing SMTP server requires from you. Likely,
a password.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On Fri, 30 Jan 2026 13:35:43 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

* The Workflow: Instead of appearing immediately, posts to moderated groups (e.g., rec.food.recipes) are sent to a moderator. The moderator reviews them to ensure they follow the group's charter, then publishes approved messages to the Usenet server.

I was a moderator for a group years ago. The name escapes me but we used a service to coordinate the moderation. It was inexpensive and the several moderators chipped in to pay the cost.

The newsgroup still exists but hasn't had moderators for about 20 years.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 2026-01-30 19:30, rbowman wrote:

On Fri, 30 Jan 2026 13:35:43 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

* The Workflow: Instead of appearing immediately, posts to moderated
groups (e.g., rec.food.recipes) are sent to a moderator. The moderator
reviews them to ensure they follow the group's charter, then publishes
approved messages to the Usenet server.

I was a moderator for a group years ago. The name escapes me but we used a service to coordinate the moderation. It was inexpensive and the several moderators chipped in to pay the cost.

The newsgroup still exists but hasn't had moderators for about 20 years.

From the user side, how did it work?

For example, when posting, Thunderbird would automatically send an email
to the moderator list, and would find out this address automatically?
--
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

Carlos E.R. wrote:

From the user side, how did it work?

For example, when posting, Thunderbird would automatically send an email
to the moderator list, and would find out this address automatically?

Not exactly.

Tb 'tries to' post to the ng via nntp; but in a mod group, the news
server doesn't 'just' post it; instead the news server 'auto' emails it
to an .isc address ie group-name@moderators.isc.org. That address is configured to email 'forward' it to the ng's moderators of record.

The ng's moderators of record have their 'own' system of handling the
msg. Theoretically it could be handled by human eyeballs and hands, but
more like the mod mail has some auto-handling of its own.

If the msg is 'ok' then it gets posted to the group via having an
appropriate header prepended.
--
Mike Easter
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 2026-01-30 23:27, Mike Easter wrote:

Carlos E.R. wrote:

 From the user side, how did it work?

For example, when posting, Thunderbird would automatically send an
email to the moderator list, and would find out this address
automatically?

Not exactly.

Tb 'tries to' post to the ng via nntp; but in a mod group, the news
server doesn't 'just' post it; instead the news server 'auto' emails it
to an .isc address ie group-name@moderators.isc.org. That address is configured to email 'forward' it to the ng's moderators of record.

Ah. That makes more sense. Transparent, from the client point of view.

Although it means that all the news servers in the world have to be
configured to do this.

Or perhaps not configured servers can simply refuse to post to moderated groups.

The ng's moderators of record have their 'own' system of handling the
msg. Theoretically it could be handled by human eyeballs and hands, but
more like the mod mail has some auto-handling of its own.

If the msg is 'ok' then it gets posted to the group via having an appropriate header prepended.

Right.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2026-01-30 23:27, Mike Easter wrote:

Carlos E.R. wrote:

 From the user side, how did it work?

For example, when posting, Thunderbird would automatically send an
email to the moderator list, and would find out this address
automatically?

Not exactly.

Tb 'tries to' post to the ng via nntp; but in a mod group, the news
server doesn't 'just' post it; instead the news server 'auto' emails it
to an .isc address ie group-name@moderators.isc.org. That address is
configured to email 'forward' it to the ng's moderators of record.

Ah. That makes more sense. Transparent, from the client point of view.

Although it means that all the news servers in the world have to be configured to do this.

Or perhaps not configured servers can simply refuse to post to moderated groups.

The ng's moderators of record have their 'own' system of handling the
msg. Theoretically it could be handled by human eyeballs and hands, but
more like the mod mail has some auto-handling of its own.

If the msg is 'ok' then it gets posted to the group via having an
appropriate header prepended.

Right.

Thanks for all the help where I think I was wrong when I assumed that the newsreader could email the moderators directly, but I'm not fully sure.

On my end, my home-grown newsreader simply failed because it was not a case
of NNTP rejecting the post but simply that Jesse's server did not carry the group <misc.taxes.moderated>

Testing what failed in my home-grown newsreader, Blueworld does return a
normal 200 greeting and accepts MODE READER, but when I issue:

LIST ACTIVE misc.taxes.moderated

Jesse's server returns an empty list.
In other words, the moderated group is not carried at all.

Since that moderated group does not exist on that server, there is no "m"
flag and no submission template to trigger the moderator-forwarding
mechanism. My home-grown reader therefore sent the POST command normally,
and the server rejected it immediately because the group was not in its
active file. That is why I did not get a "No such group" error until after attempting to post.

Ivo Gandolfo's Paganini, on the other hand, does carry that newsgroup.

misc.taxes.moderated 0000061574 0000002149 m

and because it has the wildcard rule:

*:%s@moderators.isc.org

it automatically expands the group name and forwards the article to:

misc-taxes-moderated@moderators.isc.org

So the difference was not NNTP vs email fallback inside my reader. It was simply that Ivo's server carried the moderated group and Jesse's did not.

Once I posted to a server that actually carried the group, I believe the standard moderation-forwarding path works on the nntp server side.

I haven't yet tested Wolfgang's (Ray Banana) free server, nor Steve Crook's free server, nor Alex de Joode's free server, etc. as 2 tests were enough.

But it seems, in summary, that the news server handles how the moderation
email gets written, and the user remains blissfully unaware of the steps.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On Fri, 30 Jan 2026 14:27:09 -0800, Mike Easter wrote:

Tb 'tries to' post to the ng via nntp; but in a mod group, the news
server doesn't 'just' post it; instead the news server 'auto' emails it
to an .isc address ie group-name@moderators.isc.org. That address is configured to email 'forward' it to the ng's moderators of record.

I wish I could remember the name of the intermediary service we used. When someone posted the moderators got an email notification and one would
approve or deny the post. It streamlined the process.

It was a lot of work to strain out a few people. This wasn't the group but
if you go to alt.pagan and download a couple of months worth of headers
you'll meet the famous David Dalton. He has an obsession with Sarah
McLachlan and is usually way off his meds. He's still going strong after
all these years, the sole poster in abandoned ngs.

I wasn't too enthusiastic about the moderation and tended to be liberal in allowing posts. Other than the odd nutter the really divisive topic was
Viktor Rydgerg's theories on Norse mythology.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Rydberg



--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 30 Jan 2026, Mike Easter <MikeE@ster.invalid> posted some news:mu4phuF3kgeU1@mid.individual.net:

Carlos E.R. wrote:

From the user side, how did it work?

For example, when posting, Thunderbird would automatically send an
email to the moderator list, and would find out this address
automatically?

Not exactly.

Tb 'tries to' post to the ng via nntp; but in a mod group, the news
server doesn't 'just' post it; instead the news server 'auto' emails
it to an .isc address ie group-name@moderators.isc.org. That address
is configured to email 'forward' it to the ng's moderators of record.

The ng's moderators of record have their 'own' system of handling the
msg. Theoretically it could be handled by human eyeballs and hands,
but more like the mod mail has some auto-handling of its own.

If the msg is 'ok' then it gets posted to the group via having an appropriate header prepended.

+1
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 31 Jan 2026 03:05:28 GMT
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Fri, 30 Jan 2026 14:27:09 -0800, Mike Easter wrote:

Tb 'tries to' post to the ng via nntp; but in a mod group, the news
server doesn't 'just' post it; instead the news server 'auto' emails it
to an .isc address ie group-name@moderators.isc.org. That address is configured to email 'forward' it to the ng's moderators of record.

I wish I could remember the name of the intermediary service we used. When someone posted the moderators got an email notification and one would approve or deny the post. It streamlined the process.

It was a lot of work to strain out a few people. This wasn't the group but if you go to alt.pagan and download a couple of months worth of headers you'll meet the famous David Dalton. He has an obsession with Sarah McLachlan and is usually way off his meds. He's still going strong after
all these years, the sole poster in abandoned ngs.

He appears (out of his depth) in a few other NGs. At least he's stopped
wanting to find the ark of the covenant (was it?) buried under Stonehenge.
The good thing is that he rarely nym-shifts.

I wasn't too enthusiastic about the moderation and tended to be liberal in allowing posts. Other than the odd nutter the really divisive topic was Viktor Rydgerg's theories on Norse mythology.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Rydberg

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 1/02/2026 9:07 pm, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:

On 31 Jan 2026 03:05:28 GMT
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Fri, 30 Jan 2026 14:27:09 -0800, Mike Easter wrote:

Tb 'tries to' post to the ng via nntp; but in a mod group, the news
server doesn't 'just' post it; instead the news server 'auto' emails it
to an .isc address ie group-name@moderators.isc.org. That address is
configured to email 'forward' it to the ng's moderators of record.

I wish I could remember the name of the intermediary service we used. When >> someone posted the moderators got an email notification and one would
approve or deny the post. It streamlined the process.

It was a lot of work to strain out a few people. This wasn't the group but >> if you go to alt.pagan and download a couple of months worth of headers
you'll meet the famous David Dalton. He has an obsession with Sarah
McLachlan and is usually way off his meds. He's still going strong after
all these years, the sole poster in abandoned ngs.

He appears (out of his depth) in a few other NGs. At least he's stopped wanting to find the ark of the covenant (was it?) buried under Stonehenge.

"Stonehenge"?? I thought The Ark of The Covenant was on Mt Ararat in
Turkiye or some such!!
--
Daniel70
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On Sun, 1 Feb 2026 21:22:58 +1100
Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

On 1/02/2026 9:07 pm, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:

On 31 Jan 2026 03:05:28 GMT
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Fri, 30 Jan 2026 14:27:09 -0800, Mike Easter wrote:

Tb 'tries to' post to the ng via nntp; but in a mod group, the news
server doesn't 'just' post it; instead the news server 'auto' emails it >>> to an .isc address ie group-name@moderators.isc.org. That address is
configured to email 'forward' it to the ng's moderators of record.

I wish I could remember the name of the intermediary service we used. When >> someone posted the moderators got an email notification and one would
approve or deny the post. It streamlined the process.

It was a lot of work to strain out a few people. This wasn't the group but >> if you go to alt.pagan and download a couple of months worth of headers
you'll meet the famous David Dalton. He has an obsession with Sarah
McLachlan and is usually way off his meds. He's still going strong after >> all these years, the sole poster in abandoned ngs.

He appears (out of his depth) in a few other NGs. At least he's stopped wanting to find the ark of the covenant (was it?) buried under Stonehenge.

"Stonehenge"?? I thought The Ark of The Covenant was on Mt Ararat in
Turkiye or some such!!

You're barking up the wrong ark.

PS it's spelled 'Turkey' in English. If you're a Turk, you need to put
double dots on the last 'e' in Turkiye, IIRC.
--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 1/02/2026 9:44 pm, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:

On Sun, 1 Feb 2026 21:22:58 +1100 Daniel70
<daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

On 1/02/2026 9:07 pm, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:

On 31 Jan 2026 03:05:28 GMT rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Fri, 30 Jan 2026 14:27:09 -0800, Mike Easter wrote:

Tb 'tries to' post to the ng via nntp; but in a mod group,
the news server doesn't 'just' post it; instead the news
server 'auto' emails it to an .isc address ie
group-name@moderators.isc.org. That address is configured to
email 'forward' it to the ng's moderators of record.

I wish I could remember the name of the intermediary service we
used. When someone posted the moderators got an email
notification and one would approve or deny the post. It
streamlined the process.

It was a lot of work to strain out a few people. This wasn't
the group but if you go to alt.pagan and download a couple of
months worth of headers you'll meet the famous David Dalton. He
has an obsession with Sarah McLachlan and is usually way off
his meds. He's still going strong after all these years, the
sole poster in abandoned ngs.

He appears (out of his depth) in a few other NGs. At least he's
stopped wanting to find the ark of the covenant (was it?) buried
under Stonehenge.

"Stonehenge"?? I thought The Ark of The Covenant was on Mt Ararat
in Turkiye or some such!!

You're barking up the wrong ark.

Yes, I was (mistakenly) think of Noah's Ark being on Mt Ararat!

Opps!!

PS it's spelled 'Turkey' in English.

Used to be ... but, I thought, over the past few years there had been a
swing in English Media to use "Turkiye".

If you're a Turk, you need to put double dots on the last 'e' in
Turkiye, IIRC.

Can't say I've seen them.
--
Daniel70
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

"Kerr-Mudd, John" wrote:

PS it's spelled 'Turkey' in English. If you're a Turk, you need to put
double dots on the last 'e' in Turkiye, IIRC.

i'm gonna miss usenet as hell 🫶
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

Daniel70 wrote:

I thought, over the past few years there had been a
swing in English Media to use "Turkiye".

What we call Turkey 'official' name is Republic of Türkiye which name contains the umlaut lowercase U, which should display as a UTF-8.
--
Mike Easter
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2