• What IS "Social Media"??

    From Daniel70@daniel47@nomail.afraid.org to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Sun Feb 1 19:21:52 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    Cross-posted to Linux and Win-11 NGs

    As may here would be aware, last December, the Australian Government
    brought in Legislation to limit the access to "Social Media" for those
    under 16 years of age.

    Whilst I doubt there were many under-16's using UseNet, I have heard
    some suggest that it is a "Social Media".

    Facebook ... Sure!
    X ... Sure!
    Instagram .... Sure!
    Youtube .... Some would suggest it is "Social Media", too.

    ... and there are probably others I can't think of or have Never heard of.

    But is UseNet "Social Media"??
    --
    Daniel70
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mr. Man-wai Chang@toylet.toylet@gmail.com to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Sun Feb 1 17:38:16 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On 2/1/2026 4:21 PM, Daniel70 wrote:

    Whilst I doubt there were many under-16's using UseNet, I have heard
    some suggest that it is a "Social Media".

    Facebook ... Sure!
    X ... Sure!
    Instagram .... Sure!
    Youtube .... Some would suggest it is "Social Media", too.

    ... and there are probably others I can't think of or have Never heard of.

    But is UseNet "Social Media"??

    Usenet is "fully duplex", so it's social media because you can
    communicate with each others. :)

    The same goes to Fidonet BBS.
    --
    @~@ Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
    / v \ May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
    /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^ https://github.com/changmw/changmw
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Daniel70@daniel47@nomail.afraid.org to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Sun Feb 1 21:17:05 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On 1/02/2026 8:38 pm, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
    On 2/1/2026 4:21 PM, Daniel70 wrote:

    Whilst I doubt there were many under-16's using UseNet, I have heard
    some suggest that it is a "Social Media".

    Facebook ... Sure!
    X ... Sure!
    Instagram .... Sure!
    Youtube .... Some would suggest it is "Social Media", too.

    ... and there are probably others I can't think of or have Never heard
    of.

    But is UseNet "Social Media"??

    Usenet is "fully duplex", so it's social media because you can
    communicate with each others. :)

    Yeap, aware of that .... I just guessed that as UseNet was around for
    sooooo long before the others came into being, I just never associated
    UseNet with "Social Media".

    The same goes to Fidonet BBS.

    Never got into BBS's so couldn't possibly comment.
    --
    Daniel70
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Richard Kettlewell@invalid@invalid.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Sun Feb 1 10:59:00 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> writes:
    Cross-posted to Linux and Win-11 NGs

    As may here would be aware, last December, the Australian Government
    brought in Legislation to limit the access to "Social Media" for those
    under 16 years of age.

    Whilst I doubt there were many under-16's using UseNet, I have heard
    some suggest that it is a "Social Media".

    Facebook ... Sure!
    X ... Sure!
    Instagram .... Sure!
    Youtube .... Some would suggest it is "Social Media", too.

    ... and there are probably others I can't think of or have Never heard of.

    But is UseNet "Social Media"??

    In Australian lawn, yes. The definition is given in https://www.legislation.gov.au/C2024A00127/asmade/text section 63C and
    Usenet clearly fits.

    I think it would fit any reasonable informal definition of ‘social
    media’ too.
    --
    https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Daniel70@daniel47@nomail.afraid.org to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Sun Feb 1 22:46:01 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On 1/02/2026 9:59 pm, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> writes:
    Cross-posted to Linux and Win-11 NGs

    As may here would be aware, last December, the Australian Government
    brought in Legislation to limit the access to "Social Media" for those
    under 16 years of age.

    Whilst I doubt there were many under-16's using UseNet, I have heard
    some suggest that it is a "Social Media".

    Facebook ... Sure!
    X ... Sure!
    Instagram .... Sure!
    Youtube .... Some would suggest it is "Social Media", too.

    ... and there are probably others I can't think of or have Never heard of. >>
    But is UseNet "Social Media"??

    In Australian lawn, yes. The definition is given in https://www.legislation.gov.au/C2024A00127/asmade/text section 63C and
    Usenet clearly fits.

    I think it would fit any reasonable informal definition of ‘social
    media’ too.

    Yeap. 63C (1) does seem to cover it. Thank you.
    --
    Daniel70
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Daniel70@daniel47@nomail.afraid.org to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Sun Feb 1 22:46:50 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On 1/02/2026 10:46 pm, Daniel70 wrote:
    On 1/02/2026 9:59 pm, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> writes:
    Cross-posted to Linux and Win-11 NGs

    As may here would be aware, last December, the Australian Government
    brought in Legislation to limit the access to "Social Media" for those
    under 16 years of age.

    Whilst I doubt there were many under-16's using UseNet, I have heard
    some suggest that it is a "Social Media".

    Facebook ... Sure!
    X ... Sure!
    Instagram .... Sure!
    Youtube .... Some would suggest it is "Social Media", too.

    ... and there are probably others I can't think of or have Never
    heard of.

    But is UseNet "Social Media"??

    In Australian lawn, yes. The definition is given in
    https://www.legislation.gov.au/C2024A00127/asmade/text section 63C and
    Usenet clearly fits.

    I think it would fit any reasonable informal definition of ‘social
    media’ too.

    Yeap. 63C (1) does seem to cover it. Thank you.

    Just as well I'm over 16, then. ;-P--
    Daniel70
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mr. Man-wai Chang@toylet.toylet@gmail.com to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Sun Feb 1 20:29:23 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On 2/1/2026 6:17 PM, Daniel70 wrote:

    Yeap, aware of that .... I just guessed that as UseNet was around for
    sooooo long before the others came into being, I just never associated
    UseNet with "Social Media".
    In Hong Kong cantonese, the word "social" used to be a verb to mean
    making relationship with others. :)
    --
    @~@ Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
    / v \ May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
    /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^ https://github.com/changmw/changmw
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mr. Man-wai Chang@toylet.toylet@gmail.com to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Sun Feb 1 20:34:20 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On 2/1/2026 6:17 PM, Daniel70 wrote:
    On 1/02/2026 8:38 pm, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:

    The same goes to Fidonet BBS.

    Never got into BBS's so couldn't possibly comment.

    Echomail is the technology used by Fidonet to run a distributed
    messaging network like Usenet. Back then, it ran on top of dial-up
    modems as slow as 1200 baud. Those were the days! :)
    --
    @~@ Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
    / v \ May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
    /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^ https://github.com/changmw/changmw
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Sun Feb 1 14:17:09 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On 2026-02-01 13:34, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
    On 2/1/2026 6:17 PM, Daniel70 wrote:
    On 1/02/2026 8:38 pm, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:

    The same goes to Fidonet BBS.

    Never got into BBS's so couldn't possibly comment.

    Echomail is the technology used by Fidonet to run a distributed
    messaging network like Usenet. Back then, it ran on top of dial-up
    modems as slow as 1200 baud. Those were the days! :)

    For some strange reason, Fidonet continued working in Rusia after it
    stopped in Europe. They took over the development of software, too.

    For a while at least, I could participate in Fidonet using internet
    instead of a modem. Then my uplink failed, his computer broke down and
    he gave up. Could not find another suitable node.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Frank Slootweg@this@ddress.is.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Sun Feb 1 13:33:58 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    Mr. Man-wai Chang <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 2/1/2026 4:21 PM, Daniel70 wrote:

    Whilst I doubt there were many under-16's using UseNet, I have heard
    some suggest that it is a "Social Media".

    Facebook ... Sure!
    X ... Sure!
    Instagram .... Sure!
    Youtube .... Some would suggest it is "Social Media", too.

    ... and there are probably others I can't think of or have Never heard of.

    But is UseNet "Social Media"??

    Usenet is "fully duplex", so it's social media because you can
    communicate with each others. :)

    The same goes to Fidonet BBS.

    The History section of Wikipedia's 'Social media' page starts with
    the PLATO system and later says

    "Usenet, conceived by Tom Truscott and Jim Ellis in 1979 at the
    University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and Duke University, was
    the first open social media app, established in 1980."

    So I guess that settles it once and for all! :-)

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_media#History>
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Steve Hayes@hayesstw@telkomsa.net to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Sun Feb 1 16:29:13 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On Sun, 1 Feb 2026 19:21:52 +1100, Daniel70
    <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

    Cross-posted to Linux and Win-11 NGs

    As may here would be aware, last December, the Australian Government
    brought in Legislation to limit the access to "Social Media" for those
    under 16 years of age.

    Whilst I doubt there were many under-16's using UseNet, I have heard
    some suggest that it is a "Social Media".

    Facebook ... Sure!
    X ... Sure!
    Instagram .... Sure!
    Youtube .... Some would suggest it is "Social Media", too.

    ... and there are probably others I can't think of or have Never heard of.

    But is UseNet "Social Media"??

    Usenet can be a social medium, and is sometimes used as such, if one
    defines a socuial mediun as one through which people have social
    intoercourse with one another. But the nechnical newsgroups are
    certainly not social media, and some of the other ngs, though they may
    have some social chitchat are not primarily social media.

    I had a mailing list, called "offtopic" which probably could fit
    within the definition of a social medium -- it's for people to chat
    about stuff that is offtopic in more specialised forums.

    How does the Australian legislation deine it?
    --
    Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
    Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
    Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
    E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Sun Feb 1 15:47:22 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On 2026-02-01 15:29, Steve Hayes wrote:
    On Sun, 1 Feb 2026 19:21:52 +1100, Daniel70
    <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

    Cross-posted to Linux and Win-11 NGs

    As may here would be aware, last December, the Australian Government
    brought in Legislation to limit the access to "Social Media" for those
    under 16 years of age.

    Whilst I doubt there were many under-16's using UseNet, I have heard
    some suggest that it is a "Social Media".

    Facebook ... Sure!
    X ... Sure!
    Instagram .... Sure!
    Youtube .... Some would suggest it is "Social Media", too.

    ... and there are probably others I can't think of or have Never heard of. >>
    But is UseNet "Social Media"??

    Usenet can be a social medium, and is sometimes used as such, if one
    defines a socuial mediun as one through which people have social
    intoercourse with one another. But the nechnical newsgroups are
    certainly not social media, and some of the other ngs, though they may
    have some social chitchat are not primarily social media.

    Social chitchat doesn't define social media.

    Sending a post to alt.mechanics would be using social media.

    In the AU legislation, Usenet fits the definition of social media
    squarely, already discussed in the thread.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mr. Man-wai Chang@toylet.toylet@gmail.com to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Sun Feb 1 22:54:39 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On 2/1/2026 9:33 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:


    "Usenet, conceived by Tom Truscott and Jim Ellis in 1979 at the
    University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and Duke University, was
    the first open social media app, established in 1980."

    So I guess that settles it once and for all! :-)


    "social media app"? Usenet was an "app"? I think it's a mistake. :)
    --
    @~@ Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
    / v \ May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
    /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^ https://github.com/changmw/changmw
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Frank Slootweg@this@ddress.is.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Sun Feb 1 15:18:53 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:
    On Sun, 1 Feb 2026 19:21:52 +1100, Daniel70
    [...]
    But is UseNet "Social Media"??

    Usenet can be a social medium, and is sometimes used as such, if one
    defines a socuial mediun as one through which people have social
    intoercourse with one another. But the nechnical newsgroups are
    certainly not social media, and some of the other ngs, though they may
    have some social chitchat are not primarily social media.

    That kind of reasoning has its problems, because that would mean that 'technical' forums on media which clearly *are 'social media', i.e.
    Facebook, Instagram, Reddit, etc., would make these 'social media' stop
    being 'social media'.

    [...]

    How does the Australian legislation deine it?

    Good point! Let's get all the banned youngsters on Usenet! Usenet has
    no owner, so no government can ban it, nor block/fine/etc. it! (Just
    kidding.)

    But let's keep it simple: Usenet just is social media for oldies like
    us, i.e. even more embarrasing for youngsters than ... blech ...
    Facebook.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Frank Slootweg@this@ddress.is.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Sun Feb 1 16:24:45 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    Mr. Man-wai Chang <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 2/1/2026 9:33 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:

    "Usenet, conceived by Tom Truscott and Jim Ellis in 1979 at the
    University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and Duke University, was
    the first open social media app, established in 1980."

    So I guess that settles it once and for all! :-)

    "social media app"? Usenet was an "app"? I think it's a mistake. :)

    I normally also object to back-dating the use of the term 'app' by
    several decades, but if you substitute 'app' by 'program' (or
    'application', etc.), then for all intents and purposes, for the user,
    Usenet *was* a program, which read/posted articles from/to the *local*
    'spool'. A client program, reading/posting directly from/to a remote
    news server came only much later. Remember, NetNews/Usenet *predates*
    the Internet by quite a number of years.

    FWIW, I already used/managed a NetNews/Usenet system in the early 80s.
    Used RFA (Remote File Access) before NFS (Network File System) even
    existed and UUCP (Unix-to-Unix Copy) to receive/send articles from/to
    other systems. And yes, the user used a *program* (called 'notes' [1])!

    [1] <http://tin.org/history.html>
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From knuttle@keith_nuttle@yahoo.com to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Sun Feb 1 11:31:53 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On 02/01/2026 5:59 AM, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> writes:
    Cross-posted to Linux and Win-11 NGs

    As may here would be aware, last December, the Australian Government
    brought in Legislation to limit the access to "Social Media" for those
    under 16 years of age.

    Whilst I doubt there were many under-16's using UseNet, I have heard
    some suggest that it is a "Social Media".

    Facebook ... Sure!
    X ... Sure!
    Instagram .... Sure!
    Youtube .... Some would suggest it is "Social Media", too.

    ... and there are probably others I can't think of or have Never heard of. >>
    But is UseNet "Social Media"??

    In Australian lawn, yes. The definition is given in https://www.legislation.gov.au/C2024A00127/asmade/text section 63C and
    Usenet clearly fits.

    I think it would fit any reasonable informal definition of ‘social
    media’ too.

    I would think that Newsgroups of this sort would not be included.

    Section 63C of URL document
    (2) For the purposes of subparagraph (1)(a)(i), online social
    interaction includes online interaction that enables end‑users to share material for social purposes.

    Note: Social purposes does not include (for example) business purposes.

    (3) In determining whether the condition set out in subparagraph
    (1)(a)(i) is satisfied, disregard any of the following purposes:

    (a) the provision of advertising material on the service;

    (b) the generation of revenue from the provision of advertising
    material on the service.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Richard Kettlewell@invalid@invalid.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Sun Feb 1 16:40:52 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    knuttle <keith_nuttle@yahoo.com> writes:
    On 02/01/2026 5:59 AM, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> writes:
    Cross-posted to Linux and Win-11 NGs

    As may here would be aware, last December, the Australian Government
    brought in Legislation to limit the access to "Social Media" for those
    under 16 years of age.

    Whilst I doubt there were many under-16's using UseNet, I have heard
    some suggest that it is a "Social Media".

    Facebook ... Sure!
    X ... Sure!
    Instagram .... Sure!
    Youtube .... Some would suggest it is "Social Media", too.

    ... and there are probably others I can't think of or have Never heard of. >>>
    But is UseNet "Social Media"??
    In Australian lawn, yes. The definition is given in
    https://www.legislation.gov.au/C2024A00127/asmade/text section 63C and
    Usenet clearly fits.
    I think it would fit any reasonable informal definition of ‘social
    media’ too.

    I would think that Newsgroups of this sort would not be included.

    Section 63C of URL document
    (2) For the purposes of subparagraph (1)(a)(i), online social
    interaction includes online interaction that enables end‑users to
    share material for social purposes.

    If by ‘this sort’ you mean newsgroups about particular operating
    systems, people can certainly engage in social chitchat in them, and do
    so frequently. They obviously fit the definition in the Australian law.
    --
    https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From AJL@noemail@none.com to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Sun Feb 1 10:03:32 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On 2/1/2026 9:24 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:

    FWIW, I already used/managed a NetNews/Usenet system in the early
    80s. Used RFA (Remote File Access) before NFS (Network File System)
    even existed and UUCP (Unix-to-Unix Copy) to receive/send articles
    from/to other systems. And yes, the user used a *program* (called
    'notes' [1])!

    My Earthlink dialup subscription provided Usenet at the time which is
    where I got hooked. I also frequented some bulletin boards. Good old days...

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From s|b@me@privacy.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Sun Feb 1 19:04:25 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On Sun, 1 Feb 2026 19:21:52 +1100, Daniel70 wrote:

    Cross-posted to Linux and Win-11 NGs

    Why!?
    --
    s|b
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Steve Hayes@hayesstw@telkomsa.net to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Mon Feb 2 06:36:38 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On Sun, 1 Feb 2026 22:54:39 +0800, "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 2/1/2026 9:33 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:


    "Usenet, conceived by Tom Truscott and Jim Ellis in 1979 at the
    University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and Duke University, was
    the first open social media app, established in 1980."

    So I guess that settles it once and for all! :-)


    "social media app"? Usenet was an "app"? I think it's a mistake. :)

    A newsreader is an app (app is an abbreviation for "application
    program").

    Windows 11 will have one set of apps to a\ccess Usenet, and Linux
    another.

    But Usenet itself is not an app. What is it?
    --
    Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
    Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
    Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
    E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Daniel70@daniel47@nomail.afraid.org to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Mon Feb 2 19:49:31 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On 1/02/2026 11:29 pm, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
    On 2/1/2026 6:17 PM, Daniel70 wrote:

    Yeap, aware of that .... I just guessed that as UseNet was around for
    sooooo long before the others came into being, I just never associated
    UseNet with "Social Media".
    In Hong Kong cantonese, the word "social" used to be a verb to mean
    making relationship with others. :)

    Yeap .... as in "being Social" meant to associate with others.
    --
    Daniel70
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Daniel70@daniel47@nomail.afraid.org to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Mon Feb 2 19:56:35 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On 2/02/2026 12:17 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2026-02-01 13:34, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
    On 2/1/2026 6:17 PM, Daniel70 wrote:
    On 1/02/2026 8:38 pm, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:

    The same goes to Fidonet BBS.

    Never got into BBS's so couldn't possibly comment.

    Echomail is the technology used by Fidonet to run a distributed
    messaging network like Usenet. Back then, it ran on top of dial-up
    modems as slow as 1200 baud. Those were the days! :)

    For some strange reason, Fidonet continued working in Rusia after it
    stopped in Europe. They took over the development of software, too.

    For a while at least, I could participate in Fidonet using internet
    instead of a modem.

    Sorry! What?? I've never used Fidonet but, I'm guessing, the Ones and
    Zeros being produced by your Computer would have had to be converted to
    varying Tones to traverse the Phone Network someway .... which is what a
    Modem does.

    I suppose you could have had a Modem Board with-in the Computer which
    then produced the varying tones required to traverse the Phone network.

    Then my uplink failed, his computer broke down and he gave up. Could
    not find another suitable node.
    --
    Daniel70
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Daniel70@daniel47@nomail.afraid.org to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Mon Feb 2 20:08:14 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On 2/02/2026 12:33 am, Frank Slootweg wrote:
    Mr. Man-wai Chang <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 2/1/2026 4:21 PM, Daniel70 wrote:

    Whilst I doubt there were many under-16's using UseNet, I have
    heard some suggest that it is a "Social Media".

    Facebook ... Sure!
    X ... Sure!
    Instagram .... Sure!
    Youtube .... Some would suggest it is "Social Media", too.

    ... and there are probably others I can't think of or have Never
    heard of.

    But is UseNet "Social Media"??

    Usenet is "fully duplex", so it's social media because you can
    communicate with each others. :)

    The same goes to Fidonet BBS.

    The History section of Wikipedia's 'Social media' page starts with
    the PLATO system and later says

    "Usenet, conceived by Tom Truscott and Jim Ellis in 1979 at the
    University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and Duke University, was
    the first open social media app, established in 1980."

    So I guess that settles it once and for all! :-)

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_media#History>

    I thought UseNet was just an outsourcing/spreading of the D.A.R.P.A.
    projects into the Common peoples environments!!

    D.A.R.P.A. apparently started back in Feb 1958.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARPA
    --
    Daniel70
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Daniel70@daniel47@nomail.afraid.org to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Mon Feb 2 20:12:01 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On 2/02/2026 4:03 am, AJL wrote:
    On 2/1/2026 9:24 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:

    FWIW, I already used/managed a NetNews/Usenet system in the early
    80s. Used RFA (Remote File Access) before NFS (Network File System)
    even existed and UUCP (Unix-to-Unix Copy) to receive/send articles
    from/to other systems. And yes, the user used a *program* (called
    'notes' [1])!

    My Earthlink dialup subscription provided Usenet at the time which is
    where I got hooked. I also frequented some bulletin boards. Good old
    days...

    Never did BBSs ... but I guess UseNet is not much more than many BBSs
    (i.e. ISPs/NSPs) being interconnected.
    --
    Daniel70
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Daniel70@daniel47@nomail.afraid.org to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Mon Feb 2 20:24:02 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On 2/02/2026 1:29 am, Steve Hayes wrote:
    On Sun, 1 Feb 2026 19:21:52 +1100, Daniel70
    <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

    Cross-posted to Linux and Win-11 NGs

    As may here would be aware, last December, the Australian Government
    brought in Legislation to limit the access to "Social Media" for those
    under 16 years of age.

    Whilst I doubt there were many under-16's using UseNet, I have heard
    some suggest that it is a "Social Media".

    Facebook ... Sure!
    X ... Sure!
    Instagram .... Sure!
    Youtube .... Some would suggest it is "Social Media", too.

    ... and there are probably others I can't think of or have Never heard of. >>
    But is UseNet "Social Media"??

    Usenet can be a social medium, and is sometimes used as such, if one
    defines a socuial mediun as one through which people have social
    intoercourse with one another. But the nechnical newsgroups are
    certainly not social media, and some of the other ngs, though they may
    have some social chitchat are not primarily social media.

    I had a mailing list, called "offtopic" which probably could fit
    within the definition of a social medium -- it's for people to chat
    about stuff that is offtopic in more specialised forums.

    How does the Australian legislation deine it?

    Upthread Richard Kettle posted this link .....

    https://www.legislation.gov.au/C2024A00127/asmade/text

    Section 63C s 1.
    --
    Daniel70
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Daniel70@daniel47@nomail.afraid.org to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Mon Feb 2 20:26:37 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On 2/02/2026 5:04 am, s|b wrote:
    On Sun, 1 Feb 2026 19:21:52 +1100, Daniel70 wrote:

    Cross-posted to Linux and Win-11 NGs

    Why!?

    Because I wanted to hear from UseNet Users in General, NOT just the
    Windows users, Not just the Linux users.

    I suppose I should have also posted into an Apple/Mac group but I'm not subscribed to one.
    --
    Daniel70
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul@nospam@needed.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Mon Feb 2 04:39:18 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On Mon, 2/2/2026 3:56 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
    On 2/02/2026 12:17 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2026-02-01 13:34, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
    On 2/1/2026 6:17 PM, Daniel70 wrote:
    On 1/02/2026 8:38 pm, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:

    The same goes to Fidonet BBS.

    Never got into BBS's so couldn't possibly comment.

    Echomail is the technology used by Fidonet to run a distributed messaging network like Usenet. Back then, it ran on top of dial-up
    modems as slow as 1200 baud. Those were the days! :)

    For some strange reason, Fidonet continued working in Rusia after it
    stopped in Europe. They took over the development of software, too.

    For a while at least, I could participate in Fidonet using internet instead of a modem.

    Sorry! What?? I've never used Fidonet but, I'm guessing, the Ones and
    Zeros being produced by your Computer would have had to be converted to varying Tones to traverse the Phone Network someway .... which is what a Modem does.

    I suppose you could have had a Modem Board with-in the Computer which
    then produced the varying tones required to traverse the Phone network.

    Then my uplink failed, his computer broke down and he gave up. Could
    not find another suitable node.

    The WinModem was a device based on having an audio chip
    in a computer. It used voice frequency samples, for handling
    modulated voice band transmissions. It saved money by not
    having a DataPump and DSP code in hardware. It uses the
    computer main processor for the DSP calculations.

    What the WinModem needed, was a DAA, a Data Access Arrangement.
    Using that thing, that provided some measure of "immunity" to
    POTS. For example, if you discharged a thousand volts into the
    RJ11 phone wire, none of that would make its way through
    the DAA and blow up the computer. That is the part that always
    must be provided, in some way, for a connection to POTS to be
    sorta "safe". If the 11kV wire on the power pole in my backyard,
    were to fall on the phone line, then if I had a modem I could be
    kissing some part of the computer goodbye. Even with a DAA.

    A fully provisioned modem, such as a Courier, it had a "datapump"
    running at 85MHz. It had firmware. It talked modem-talk. That
    was better than a WInModem, at least at the beginning.

    When I got my laptop, one of the things I tested, was the
    WinModem in the laptop, and it actually *beat* the Courier
    on goodput in a 56K mode. And to do that, the core CPU on
    the laptop donates about "100MHz worth of DSP activity"
    to do the job over the Winmodem audio path. The DSP
    sorts the tones in "buckets", the same sort of bucket
    or bin scheme that ADSL uses in a sense.

    In the early days, you could use a PLL to decode the tones.
    Just going from memory, the CD4046 Phase Detector II output

    https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/cd4046b.pdf

    https://www.eleccircuit.com/cd4046-datasheet-phase-locked-loop/

    uses flip flops and a state machine, and it should be a
    -2Pi to +2Pi phase detector. The distinguishing thing
    about such a phase detector, is it can do a wide range
    clock, without a harmonic lockup problem. The other phase
    detector, shown as a simple XOR gate, that can harmonic lock
    so you could have a 1KHz input and the VCO could be running
    at 3KHz in response. Whereas with phase detector II, a
    a 1KHz input gives 1KHz output, a 5KHz input gives 5KHz output.
    And we don't particularly care about the clock. We care about
    the control voltage driving the VCO. It might measure 1 volt at
    1KHz and 5 volts at 5KHz and exhibit a linear relationship
    between frequency and voltage. Then, if your "POTS phone had
    the tones", the VCO control voltage was a voltage domain
    copy of what frequency was being carried at the moment.
    It's F2V conversion.

    I think you can imagine the hobbyist excitement at this point :-)

    F2V conversion, may have worked fine with the ZX81 tape recorder
    interface, but eventually the "sea of tones" on modem connections
    was just too much for the "PLL crowd". That's when the DSP boys
    took over. And DSP is how we got from 1200baud to 53300baud
    (a little short of the marketing 56K).

    Paul
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Mon Feb 2 12:39:29 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On 2026-02-02 10:39, Paul wrote:
    On Mon, 2/2/2026 3:56 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
    On 2/02/2026 12:17 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2026-02-01 13:34, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
    On 2/1/2026 6:17 PM, Daniel70 wrote:
    On 1/02/2026 8:38 pm, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:

    The same goes to Fidonet BBS.

    Never got into BBS's so couldn't possibly comment.

    Echomail is the technology used by Fidonet to run a distributed messaging network like Usenet. Back then, it ran on top of dial-up
    modems as slow as 1200 baud. Those were the days! :)

    For some strange reason, Fidonet continued working in Rusia after it
    stopped in Europe. They took over the development of software, too.

    For a while at least, I could participate in Fidonet using internet instead of a modem.

    Sorry! What?? I've never used Fidonet but, I'm guessing, the Ones and
    Zeros being produced by your Computer would have had to be converted to
    varying Tones to traverse the Phone Network someway .... which is what a
    Modem does.

    I suppose you could have had a Modem Board with-in the Computer which
    then produced the varying tones required to traverse the Phone network.

    Then my uplink failed, his computer broke down and he gave up. Could
    not find another suitable node.

    The WinModem was a device based on having an audio chip
    in a computer. It used voice frequency samples, for handling
    modulated voice band transmissions. It saved money by not
    having a DataPump and DSP code in hardware. It uses the
    computer main processor for the DSP calculations.

    What the WinModem needed, was a DAA, a Data Access Arrangement.
    Using that thing, that provided some measure of "immunity" to
    POTS. For example, if you discharged a thousand volts into the
    RJ11 phone wire, none of that would make its way through
    the DAA and blow up the computer. That is the part that always
    must be provided, in some way, for a connection to POTS to be
    sorta "safe". If the 11kV wire on the power pole in my backyard,
    were to fall on the phone line, then if I had a modem I could be
    kissing some part of the computer goodbye. Even with a DAA.

    A fully provisioned modem, such as a Courier, it had a "datapump"
    running at 85MHz. It had firmware. It talked modem-talk. That
    was better than a WInModem, at least at the beginning.

    When I got my laptop, one of the things I tested, was the
    WinModem in the laptop, and it actually *beat* the Courier
    on goodput in a 56K mode. And to do that, the core CPU on
    the laptop donates about "100MHz worth of DSP activity"
    to do the job over the Winmodem audio path. The DSP
    sorts the tones in "buckets", the same sort of bucket
    or bin scheme that ADSL uses in a sense.

    In the early days, you could use a PLL to decode the tones.
    Just going from memory, the CD4046 Phase Detector II output

    https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/cd4046b.pdf

    https://www.eleccircuit.com/cd4046-datasheet-phase-locked-loop/

    uses flip flops and a state machine, and it should be a
    -2Pi to +2Pi phase detector. The distinguishing thing
    about such a phase detector, is it can do a wide range
    clock, without a harmonic lockup problem. The other phase
    detector, shown as a simple XOR gate, that can harmonic lock
    so you could have a 1KHz input and the VCO could be running
    at 3KHz in response. Whereas with phase detector II, a
    a 1KHz input gives 1KHz output, a 5KHz input gives 5KHz output.
    And we don't particularly care about the clock. We care about
    the control voltage driving the VCO. It might measure 1 volt at
    1KHz and 5 volts at 5KHz and exhibit a linear relationship
    between frequency and voltage. Then, if your "POTS phone had
    the tones", the VCO control voltage was a voltage domain
    copy of what frequency was being carried at the moment.
    It's F2V conversion.

    I think you can imagine the hobbyist excitement at this point :-)

    F2V conversion, may have worked fine with the ZX81 tape recorder
    interface, but eventually the "sea of tones" on modem connections
    was just too much for the "PLL crowd". That's when the DSP boys
    took over. And DSP is how we got from 1200baud to 53300baud
    (a little short of the marketing 56K).

    But my problem with Fidonet was not a problem with my modem, but a
    problem with my upstream link, my node. The modem worked perfectly,
    although at the time I might have been using an ADSL connection.

    Fidonet was a network of Nodes, aka BBSs. We connected to them by
    phoning them directly. The software optimized the phone call to keep
    them short. Some were long distance.

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FidoNet>

    I connected to Fidonet early in the 90's, and to Internet in the late 90's.


    In the subject of winmodems, I bought one by mistake. At that time I
    double booted to Linux, and that blasted thing would not work in Linux
    at all. I think I resold it to a friend what was a happy Windows user.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Mon Feb 2 12:45:57 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On 2026-02-02 05:36, Steve Hayes wrote:
    On Sun, 1 Feb 2026 22:54:39 +0800, "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 2/1/2026 9:33 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:


    "Usenet, conceived by Tom Truscott and Jim Ellis in 1979 at the
    University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and Duke University, was
    the first open social media app, established in 1980."

    So I guess that settles it once and for all! :-)


    "social media app"? Usenet was an "app"? I think it's a mistake. :)

    A newsreader is an app (app is an abbreviation for "application
    program").

    Windows 11 will have one set of apps to a\ccess Usenet, and Linux
    another.

    But Usenet itself is not an app. What is it?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet

    Usenet

    Usenet (/ˈjuːznɛt/),[1] a portmanteau of User's Network,[1] is a
    worldwide distributed discussion system available on computers. It was developed from the general-purpose Unix-to-Unix Copy (UUCP) dial-up
    network architecture. Tom Truscott and Jim Ellis conceived the idea in
    1979, and it was established in 1980.[2] Users read and post messages
    (called articles or posts, and collectively termed news) to one or more
    topic categories, known as newsgroups. Usenet resembles a bulletin board system (BBS) in many respects and is the precursor to the Internet
    forums that were developed after the introduction of the World Wide Web. Discussions are threaded, as with web forums and BBSes, though posts are stored on the server sequentially.[3][4]

    A major difference between a BBS or web message board and Usenet is the absence of a central server and dedicated administrator or hosting
    provider. Usenet is distributed among a large, constantly changing set
    of news servers that store and forward messages to one another via "news feeds". Individual users may read messages from and post to a local (or
    simply preferred) news server, which can be operated by anyone, and
    those posts will automatically be forwarded to any other news servers
    peered with the local one, while the local server will receive any news
    its peers have that it currently lacks. This results in the automatic proliferation of content posted by any user on any server to any other
    user subscribed to the same newsgroups on other servers.

    As with BBSes and message boards, individual news servers or service
    providers are under no obligation to carry any specific content, and may refuse to do so for many reasons: a news server might attempt to control
    the spread of spam by refusing to accept or forward any posts that
    trigger spam filters, or a server without high-capacity data storage may refuse to carry any newsgroups used primarily for file sharing, limiting itself to discussion-oriented groups. However, unlike BBSes and web
    forums, the dispersed nature of Usenet usually permits users who are interested in receiving some content to access it simply by choosing to connect to news servers that carry the feeds they want.

    Usenet is culturally and historically significant in the networked
    world, having given rise to, or popularized, many widely recognized
    concepts and terms such as "FAQ", "flame", "sockpuppet", and "spam".[5]
    In the early 1990s, shortly before access to the Internet became
    commonly affordable, Usenet connections via FidoNet's dial-up BBS
    networks made long-distance or worldwide discussions and other
    communication widespread.[6]

    The name Usenet comes from the term "users' network".[3] The first
    Usenet group was NET.general, which quickly became net.general.[7] The
    first commercial spam on Usenet was from immigration attorneys Canter
    and Siegel advertising green card services.[7]

    On the Internet, Usenet is transported via the Network News Transfer
    Protocol (NNTP) on Transmission Control Protocol (TCP) port 119 for
    standard, unprotected connections, and on TCP port 563 for Secure
    Sockets Layer (SSL) encrypted connections.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul@nospam@needed.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Mon Feb 2 07:14:16 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On Mon, 2/2/2026 4:26 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
    On 2/02/2026 5:04 am, s|b wrote:
    On Sun, 1 Feb 2026 19:21:52 +1100, Daniel70 wrote:

    Cross-posted to Linux and Win-11 NGs

    Why!?

    Because I wanted to hear from UseNet Users in General, NOT just the Windows users, Not just the Linux users.

    I suppose I should have also posted into an Apple/Mac group but I'm not subscribed to one.

    It's not a full-feature social media platform.

    It's the "two tomato tins and piece of string"
    version of social media.

    "Can you hear me now... can you hear me now..."

    Well, pull the string a little tighter.

    I would send you a "bag full of Likes", but
    there is no transport for that. And no where to
    record how many Likes you have accumulated.

    You can see this is a spartan environment.
    I can't send you any pictures of me pouting
    in the bathroom mirror. Somehow this place is
    just not the same that way.

    ASCII art of me pouting in the bathroom mirror.

    +-----------------+
    | xxxxxxx |
    | x O o x |
    | x -^- x |
    | x \\--/\ x |
    | xxxxxxxx |
    +-----------------+

    You see, I'm not entirely unattractive.

    Do you think I'm attractive ? Send me a Like.

    Oh, oh yeah.

    The teenagers will be all over this, once they discover
    all the features.

    |\ _,,,---,,_ ,-. _,---._ __ / \
    ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ / ) .-' `./ / \
    |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' ( ( ,' `/ /|
    '---''(_/--' `-'\_) Sleeping cat \ `-" \'\ / |
    `. , \ \ / |
    /`. ,'-`----Y |
    ( ; | '
    Curious | ,-. ,-' | /
    Cat | | ( | | /
    ) | \ `.___________|/
    `--' `--'
    Paul
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul@nospam@needed.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Mon Feb 2 08:54:22 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On Mon, 2/2/2026 6:39 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    In the subject of winmodems, I bought one by mistake. At that time I
    double booted to Linux, and that blasted thing would not work in Linux at all.
    I think I resold it to a friend what was a happy Windows user.

    Modems were never a lot of fun at the best of times.

    I had two modems with datapumps, one each from the different
    modem factions. If I was "dialing into a Livingston front end",
    there was a modem for that, and there was another modem
    for the other flavors of front ends (modem pool).

    I think if you mixed the wrong modem types together,
    there would be a spiral of death, where the datarate
    would drop, until the datarate dropped so low, it would
    do a disconnect. And this is because if conditions improve,
    the bins that weren't being used, would not be recommissioned.
    And thus, a connection could only go downhill.

    My modems may have been flashed once or twice. I needed to
    flash them, for them to run at 56K. And I think a typical
    good day with the modem, was 43.3 or so. The line to the
    CO was likely too long, to support more than that. They used
    to connect a tank of dry nitrogen to our "wire bundle"
    in the manhole, and leave the gas running for a couple
    days, to "dry the lines". And this would help bring my line
    back to 43.3K again. I would occasionally have it drop all
    the way to 33.6K because of line conditions.

    I had to disconnect the household phone wiring, drill a wire up
    through the computer room floor, and run a brand new phone wire
    up into the computer room. And that's how I got the ability
    to run at 43.3 . You had to fight every inch of
    the way with that crap.

    My manager at work, when he had to debug his damn modem,
    there was corrosion in some phone wires where they passed
    through the foundation wall.

    "Good riddance, to bad rubbish."

    I don't recollect anyone lamenting that their modem was
    in the junk room now :-)

    Paul
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Mon Feb 2 15:51:29 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On 2026-02-02 14:54, Paul wrote:
    On Mon, 2/2/2026 6:39 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    In the subject of winmodems, I bought one by mistake. At that time I
    double booted to Linux, and that blasted thing would not work in Linux at all.
    I think I resold it to a friend what was a happy Windows user.

    Modems were never a lot of fun at the best of times.

    I had two modems with datapumps, one each from the different
    modem factions. If I was "dialing into a Livingston front end",
    there was a modem for that, and there was another modem
    for the other flavors of front ends (modem pool).

    I think if you mixed the wrong modem types together,
    there would be a spiral of death, where the datarate
    would drop, until the datarate dropped so low, it would
    do a disconnect. And this is because if conditions improve,
    the bins that weren't being used, would not be recommissioned.
    And thus, a connection could only go downhill.

    My modems may have been flashed once or twice. I needed to
    flash them, for them to run at 56K. And I think a typical
    good day with the modem, was 43.3 or so. The line to the
    CO was likely too long, to support more than that. They used
    to connect a tank of dry nitrogen to our "wire bundle"
    in the manhole, and leave the gas running for a couple
    days, to "dry the lines". And this would help bring my line
    back to 43.3K again. I would occasionally have it drop all
    the way to 33.6K because of line conditions.

    I had to disconnect the household phone wiring, drill a wire up
    through the computer room floor, and run a brand new phone wire
    up into the computer room. And that's how I got the ability
    to run at 43.3 . You had to fight every inch of
    the way with that crap.

    My manager at work, when he had to debug his damn modem,
    there was corrosion in some phone wires where they passed
    through the foundation wall.

    "Good riddance, to bad rubbish."

    I don't recollect anyone lamenting that their modem was
    in the junk room now :-)

    I had two lost battles that I remember. One was that I got a win-modem
    that would not work in Linux, except at a low speed. 9600? Then I
    learned that I needed an external modem to be sure it had the whole
    hardware.

    Later I had another trouble with a modem of about 30000 or 40000 bps.
    The box said compatible with certain protocol that I have forgotten the
    name. Compatible, ie, not included. I had to buy another modem.

    Finally, I got an V90 modem. Worked fine. I never improved it to V92.
    I'm not sure I got the numbers right.


    Oh, and here we had (have?) to pay local phone calls, so we tried to
    make our calls to Fidonet or Internet as short as possible.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Frank Slootweg@this@ddress.is.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Mon Feb 2 15:11:11 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    On 2/02/2026 12:33 am, Frank Slootweg wrote:
    Mr. Man-wai Chang <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 2/1/2026 4:21 PM, Daniel70 wrote:

    Whilst I doubt there were many under-16's using UseNet, I have
    heard some suggest that it is a "Social Media".

    Facebook ... Sure!
    X ... Sure!
    Instagram .... Sure!
    Youtube .... Some would suggest it is "Social Media", too.

    ... and there are probably others I can't think of or have Never
    heard of.

    But is UseNet "Social Media"??

    Usenet is "fully duplex", so it's social media because you can
    communicate with each others. :)

    The same goes to Fidonet BBS.

    The History section of Wikipedia's 'Social media' page starts with
    the PLATO system and later says

    "Usenet, conceived by Tom Truscott and Jim Ellis in 1979 at the
    University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and Duke University, was
    the first open social media app, established in 1980."

    So I guess that settles it once and for all! :-)

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_media#History>

    I thought UseNet was just an outsourcing/spreading of the D.A.R.P.A.
    projects into the Common peoples environments!!

    D.A.R.P.A. apparently started back in Feb 1958.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARPA

    No, as far I know there is no link between Usenet and DARPA. Yes,
    DARPA had ties with some universtities for some projects, but not with
    these universities for Usenet.

    Anyway, as I mentioned, Usenet *predates* Internet and probably
    predates any substantial work DARPA did in pre-Internet phases.

    The ARPANET article indicates that ARPANET did not really open up to universities, etc. via CSNET (Computer Science Network) till 1981, i.e.
    after Usenet was created.

    Also note that TCP/IP was not really adopted until 1985. Without
    TCP/IP, no Internet and no NNTP.

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPANET>

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_protocol_suite#Adoption>
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Anssi Saari@anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Mon Feb 2 17:49:39 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> writes:

    For some strange reason, Fidonet continued working in Rusia after it
    stopped in Europe. They took over the development of software, too.

    I still see people post to Usenet from Fidonet on occasion.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?=@ldo@nz.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Mon Feb 2 21:57:49 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On Mon, 2 Feb 2026 08:54:22 -0500, Paul wrote:

    I don't recollect anyone lamenting that their modem was in the junk
    room now :-)

    Faxing via modem was fun. This was because standalone fax machines had
    bloody awful scanners that pushed the contrast to maximum on
    everything which, while fine for regular text, turned photographic
    imagery into a murky, blobby mess.

    Whereas if the fax data was generated on a computer, you had access to
    nice dithering algorithms that did a creditable job of reproducing
    gradations of tone (at least in greyscale). And this still looked
    pretty good on the receiving fax machine.

    I loved the oohs and ahs and “How did you do that?” responses. ;)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Mon Feb 2 23:49:50 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On 2026-02-02 22:57, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
    On Mon, 2 Feb 2026 08:54:22 -0500, Paul wrote:

    I don't recollect anyone lamenting that their modem was in the junk
    room now :-)

    Faxing via modem was fun. This was because standalone fax machines had
    bloody awful scanners that pushed the contrast to maximum on
    everything which, while fine for regular text, turned photographic
    imagery into a murky, blobby mess.

    Whereas if the fax data was generated on a computer, you had access to
    nice dithering algorithms that did a creditable job of reproducing
    gradations of tone (at least in greyscale). And this still looked
    pretty good on the receiving fax machine.

    I loved the oohs and ahs and “How did you do that?” responses. ;)

    Indeed. It was my job at some time to write reports and fax them. I used
    the computer fax card, on an ISDN lines, instead of the fax machine, and
    I got those oohs and ahs.

    Oh, and in Linux there was hylafax, a server that could centralize all
    faxes for a company. Wonderful software. Free and gratis.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Mon Feb 2 23:50:42 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On 2026-02-02 16:49, Anssi Saari wrote:
    "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> writes:

    For some strange reason, Fidonet continued working in Rusia after it
    stopped in Europe. They took over the development of software, too.

    I still see people post to Usenet from Fidonet on occasion.

    There is a number of Fidonet groups available on Usenet, but I don't
    know how they work.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Steve Hayes@hayesstw@telkomsa.net to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Tue Feb 3 05:52:40 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On Mon, 2 Feb 2026 15:51:29 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    Oh, and here we had (have?) to pay local phone calls, so we tried to
    make our calls to Fidonet or Internet as short as possible.

    There was a point at which all of South Africa's internetional
    internet traffic was on a 9600 bps dial-up line via Fidonet, between a
    BBS at Rhodes University in Grahamstown and Randy Bush's BBS in Oregon
    USA. When TCP/IP connections became more widely available, it was the
    other way round -- Fidonet packets were exchanged over the Internet by
    FTP.

    That was also the time of the distinction between the Internet
    (TCP/IP) and the internet, which included Fidonet technology networks.

    Fido techniology was developed after uucp, and was more sophisticated:
    in nested replies it would show the initials of who had posted what,
    so it was easier to follow conversations. I miss echomail for that
    reason. And yes, there wqas a lot of social chitchat, so FTNs were, at
    least in part, social networks.
    --
    Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
    Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
    Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
    E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Steve Hayes@hayesstw@telkomsa.net to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Tue Feb 3 05:59:00 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On Mon, 2 Feb 2026 12:45:57 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    On 2026-02-02 05:36, Steve Hayes wrote:
    On Sun, 1 Feb 2026 22:54:39 +0800, "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 2/1/2026 9:33 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:


    "Usenet, conceived by Tom Truscott and Jim Ellis in 1979 at the
    University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and Duke University, was >>>> the first open social media app, established in 1980."

    So I guess that settles it once and for all! :-)


    "social media app"? Usenet was an "app"? I think it's a mistake. :)

    A newsreader is an app (app is an abbreviation for "application
    program").

    Windows 11 will have one set of apps to a\ccess Usenet, and Linux
    another.

    But Usenet itself is not an app. What is it?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet

    A long but not very useful answer.

    Perhaps I should reword my question: Usenet can't be called an "app",
    so what DO you call it?
    --
    Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
    Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
    Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
    E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mr. Man-wai Chang@toylet.toylet@gmail.com to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Tue Feb 3 12:47:40 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On 2/2/2026 12:36 PM, Steve Hayes wrote:
    an "app"? I think it's a mistake. :)

    A newsreader is an app (app is an abbreviation for "application
    program").

    Windows 11 will have one set of apps to a\ccess Usenet, and Linux
    another.

    But Usenet itself is not an app. What is it?
    Usnet is a service, a 2-way messaging network! Defintely not an "app" as
    we understand today!! Newsreaders, like Thunderbird, are surely "app"s.

    Read the quoted paragraph again:

    "Usenet, conceived by .... University, was the first open social media
    app, established in 1980."
    --
    @~@ Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
    / v \ May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
    /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^ https://github.com/changmw/changmw
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mr. Man-wai Chang@toylet.toylet@gmail.com to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Tue Feb 3 12:50:28 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On 2/2/2026 11:49 PM, Anssi Saari wrote:
    "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> writes:

    For some strange reason, Fidonet continued working in Rusia after it
    stopped in Europe. They took over the development of software, too.

    I still see people post to Usenet from Fidonet on occasion.

    There was a bridging program that could sync a Usenet newsgroup to an
    Echomail group back then. :)

    And Echomail has offline readers, allowing you to post as well.
    --
    @~@ Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
    / v \ May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
    /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^ https://github.com/changmw/changmw
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mr. Man-wai Chang@toylet.toylet@gmail.com to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Tue Feb 3 12:52:08 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On 2/2/2026 12:24 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:

    I normally also object to back-dating the use of the term 'app' by
    several decades, but if you substitute 'app' by 'program' (or
    'application', etc.), then for all intents and purposes, for the user,
    Usenet *was* a program, which read/posted articles from/to the *local* 'spool'. A client program, reading/posting directly from/to a remote
    news server came only much later. Remember, NetNews/Usenet *predates*
    the Internet by quite a number of years.

    I disagree! Usenet is a service network, in which apps and programs like newsreaders can use it. Usenet itself is NOT an app nor a program.
    --
    @~@ Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
    / v \ May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
    /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^ https://github.com/changmw/changmw
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mr. Man-wai Chang@toylet.toylet@gmail.com to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Tue Feb 3 12:54:13 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On 2/2/2026 5:08 PM, Daniel70 wrote:

    I thought UseNet was just an outsourcing/spreading of the D.A.R.P.A.
    projects into the Common peoples environments!!

    D.A.R.P.A. apparently started back in Feb 1958.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARPA

    I believe DARPA-net became internet. Usenet is a separate messaging
    network, speaking NNTP not HTTP, nor FTP.
    --
    @~@ Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
    / v \ May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
    /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^ https://github.com/changmw/changmw
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Tue Feb 3 13:20:38 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On 2026-02-03 04:52, Steve Hayes wrote:
    On Mon, 2 Feb 2026 15:51:29 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    Oh, and here we had (have?) to pay local phone calls, so we tried to
    make our calls to Fidonet or Internet as short as possible.

    There was a point at which all of South Africa's internetional
    internet traffic was on a 9600 bps dial-up line via Fidonet, between a
    BBS at Rhodes University in Grahamstown and Randy Bush's BBS in Oregon
    USA. When TCP/IP connections became more widely available, it was the
    other way round -- Fidonet packets were exchanged over the Internet by
    FTP.

    That was also the time of the distinction between the Internet
    (TCP/IP) and the internet, which included Fidonet technology networks.

    Fido techniology was developed after uucp, and was more sophisticated:
    in nested replies it would show the initials of who had posted what,
    so it was easier to follow conversations. I miss echomail for that
    reason. And yes, there wqas a lot of social chitchat, so FTNs were, at
    least in part, social networks.

    Yes, I also miss the initials in the quotes. I have seen some people do
    that now, but it is a mess because current mail clients (or usenet) like Thunderbird do not support it.

    I also miss that all groups were moderated. There was no spam. Every
    person was real.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.linux on Tue Feb 3 13:30:33 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

    On 2026-02-03 04:59, Steve Hayes wrote:
    On Mon, 2 Feb 2026 12:45:57 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    On 2026-02-02 05:36, Steve Hayes wrote:
    On Sun, 1 Feb 2026 22:54:39 +0800, "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 2/1/2026 9:33 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:


    "Usenet, conceived by Tom Truscott and Jim Ellis in 1979 at the
    University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and Duke University, was >>>>> the first open social media app, established in 1980."

    So I guess that settles it once and for all! :-)


    "social media app"? Usenet was an "app"? I think it's a mistake. :)

    A newsreader is an app (app is an abbreviation for "application
    program").

    Windows 11 will have one set of apps to a\ccess Usenet, and Linux
    another.

    But Usenet itself is not an app. What is it?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet

    A long but not very useful answer.

    Perhaps I should reword my question: Usenet can't be called an "app",
    so what DO you call it?

    Usenet, a portmanteau of User's Network, is a worldwide distributed
    discussion system available on computers.

    The first phrase. The wikipedia has usually being subject to a lot of discussion.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2