From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

I went to visit a friend in NJ and someone in his family brought up
Google Docs, and recommended it for him I thought the major feature of
Google Docs was that files were stored in the cloud but the wikip
article doesn't even mention that (or barely if I missed it). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Docs

Okay "while collaborating with users in real-time." implies that it's
online, at least during editing.

Doesn't one have to learn at least a few things about google docs to use
it. My friend, 83 yo, can learn new things, but doesn't really want to.
If someone only works at home or at work or when he takes his laptop
with him, and when none of that is true, he wants to be "on vacation"
and free of computer chores, there is no point to google docs, is there?
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On Sat, 3/14/2026 12:25 PM, micky wrote:

I went to visit a friend in NJ and someone in his family brought up
Google Docs, and recommended it for him I thought the major feature of Google Docs was that files were stored in the cloud but the wikip
article doesn't even mention that (or barely if I missed it). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Docs

Okay "while collaborating with users in real-time." implies that it's
online, at least during editing.

Doesn't one have to learn at least a few things about google docs to use
it. My friend, 83 yo, can learn new things, but doesn't really want to.
If someone only works at home or at work or when he takes his laptop
with him, and when none of that is true, he wants to be "on vacation"
and free of computer chores, there is no point to google docs, is there?

This is popular with university students, as they can submit an assignment
to a professor who is also on Google Drive.

Microsoft has a thing like this too. This is likely to store the
document on OneDrive, so the user MSA account is involved.
The free version of OneDrive has limited storage, but for casual
Word document usage, you aren't likely to run out. If you were
a university student, you might well run out of space.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/microsoft-365/free-office-online-for-the-web

You can edit documents locally with Libreoffice.

All of these things require some knowledge of how to do
WYSIWYG Desktop Publishing. Setting Fonts. Paragraph styles.
Heads and Footers. Index. Table of Contents. And finally,
getting the Printer interface to make a good paper print.
You get the idea. They have continuing education programs
for things like that.

Paul
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 2026-03-14 17:25, micky wrote:

I went to visit a friend in NJ and someone in his family brought up
Google Docs, and recommended it for him I thought the major feature of Google Docs was that files were stored in the cloud but the wikip
article doesn't even mention that (or barely if I missed it). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Docs

Okay "while collaborating with users in real-time." implies that it's
online, at least during editing.

Doesn't one have to learn at least a few things about google docs to use
it. My friend, 83 yo, can learn new things, but doesn't really want to.
If someone only works at home or at work or when he takes his laptop
with him, and when none of that is true, he wants to be "on vacation"
and free of computer chores, there is no point to google docs, is there?

I use google docs solely for one purpose: documents that I want to
access on my phone. Like a spreadsheet of car expenses. I also access
the same docs on the computer.

Once I used a text document, a list of things to do, me in Europe, my
cousin in Canada. It was curious when we both were writing, we could
chat using it.

You can export the file to local storage, too.

For normal usage on the computer, I use Libre Office alone.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

In alt.comp.os.windows-11, on Sat, 14 Mar 2026 22:56:33 +0100, "Carlos
E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2026-03-14 17:25, micky wrote:

I went to visit a friend in NJ and someone in his family brought up
Google Docs, and recommended it for him I thought the major feature of
Google Docs was that files were stored in the cloud but the wikip
article doesn't even mention that (or barely if I missed it).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Docs

Okay "while collaborating with users in real-time." implies that it's
online, at least during editing.

Doesn't one have to learn at least a few things about google docs to use
it. My friend, 83 yo, can learn new things, but doesn't really want to.

IIRC he hasn't wanted to for 10 or 20 years, so it's not just that he's
old now.

If someone only works at home or at work or when he takes his laptop
with him, and when none of that is true, he wants to be "on vacation"
and free of computer chores, there is no point to google docs, is there?

I use google docs solely for one purpose: documents that I want to
access on my phone. Like a spreadsheet of car expenses. I also access
the same docs on the computer.

I thought that's the sort of thing it was good for.

Once I used a text document, a list of things to do, me in Europe, my
cousin in Canada. It was curious when we both were writing, we could
chat using it.

You can export the file to local storage, too.

For normal usage on the computer, I use Libre Office alone.

I've been copying my friend's old hard drive to a flash drive and his
own files are mostly .docx . I think that is the default for Word, but
I don't know if his new computer includes Word. If he has to buy it, he
won't be happy. Maybe he will switch to Libreoffice.

I rarely care if something looks nice, but when I do, I use Libreoffice
too.

Not a pending problem, just FYI: I've copied about 35,000 files that he
wrote, he downloaded, or which have a user extension, and every one of
35,000 copied fine on the first try except the only two .doc files,
which, strangely enough, worked fine when I clicked on them on his
harddrive (which I removed from the laptop with the broken screen). (He
wrote those two files too, with the same name, found in a directory and
its sub-directory, only 4 short lines long.)
I am curious what would make a file NOT copy with XXCopy (which I
think uses Xcopy for the actual copy step), whether or not it could
actually be read, especially since it could be read with no problem.

--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

In alt.comp.os.windows-11, on Sat, 14 Mar 2026 13:18:24 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

On Sat, 3/14/2026 12:25 PM, micky wrote:

I went to visit a friend in NJ and someone in his family brought up
Google Docs, and recommended it for him I thought the major feature of
Google Docs was that files were stored in the cloud but the wikip
article doesn't even mention that (or barely if I missed it).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Docs

Okay "while collaborating with users in real-time." implies that it's
online, at least during editing.

Doesn't one have to learn at least a few things about google docs to use
it. My friend, 83 yo, can learn new things, but doesn't really want to.
If someone only works at home or at work or when he takes his laptop
with him, and when none of that is true, he wants to be "on vacation"
and free of computer chores, there is no point to google docs, is there?

This is popular with university students, as they can submit an assignment
to a professor who is also on Google Drive.

Hmmm. My friend is 83, not in school anymore.

Microsoft has a thing like this too. This is likely to store the
document on OneDrive, so the user MSA account is involved.
The free version of OneDrive has limited storage, but for casual
Word document usage, you aren't likely to run out. If you were
a university student, you might well run out of space.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/microsoft-365/free-office-online-for-the-web

MS has such silly names and IMO this is another one of them MS 365. Are
they saying you should use it every day? Any program you use a lot you
might use any day. MS Office, that made sense.

You can edit documents locally with Libreoffice.

All of these things require some knowledge of how to do
WYSIWYG Desktop Publishing. Setting Fonts. Paragraph styles.
Heads and Footers. Index. Table of Contents. And finally,
getting the Printer interface to make a good paper print.

I'm worn out just reading the list.

It reminds me that my stepfather thought my mother would be better off
if she moved her record keeping to a computer. She'd been doing it on
paper for 20 years since my father died, had it down to a science, and I
know a computer would have taken more effort not less. But my SF was
just trying to be helpful. He didn't have a computer either (this was
before 1996.)

You get the idea. They have continuing education programs
for things like that.

They can't just play a recording while you're sleeping?

Paul

--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On Sat, 3/14/2026 6:56 PM, micky wrote:

<<snippage>>

Not a pending problem, just FYI: I've copied about 35,000 files that he wrote, he downloaded, or which have a user extension, and every one of
35,000 copied fine on the first try except the only two .doc files,
which, strangely enough, worked fine when I clicked on them on his
harddrive (which I removed from the laptop with the broken screen). (He
wrote those two files too, with the same name, found in a directory and
its sub-directory, only 4 short lines long.)
I am curious what would make a file NOT copy with XXCopy (which I
think uses Xcopy for the actual copy step), whether or not it could
actually be read, especially since it could be read with no problem.

Windows is case insensitive. However, you can flip that and make
it case sensitive. Then note.txt and NOTE.txt can be stored in
the same directory, in case sensitive mode.

Some tools may be old enough, they may not be "aware" programmatically,
that case sensitivity is ON.

Normally, you would suspect a file ownership or permissions issue,
prevents copying. Try copying the System Volume Information folder
on the root of a disk. How did that go ? Was that fun ?

When you copy files from one C:\users\micky\Downloads to another C:\users\micky\Downloads , and you're not in a domain or anything,
those files would benefit from different SIDs (Security ID). Each home
user OS has a custom SID number for "Micky".
You can get some flavor of what a SID is, from the identifiers
you may have seen that are associated with the Recycle Bin.
Doing a Takeown allows assigning a new SID to a thing.
It might even remove that accursed green bar from File Explorer :-)

*******

One way I can do a copy here is:

1) Do a Macrium backup of Old_C:
2) Bring the Macrium MRIMG file to my pen drive preparation machine.
(On your current setup, there would be "nothing to do to achieve this".)
Use the Macrium Explore function and mount the MRIMG C: as K:
and "remove restrictions" tick box in the interface of the mounting dialog.
Now, you are working with a copy of the goods and not the original goods.
3) Then, if you xxcopy K:\users\micky\Downloads to P:\your-recovered-files\
there would be no problem with the permissions. The permissions and
SID of the person doing the xxcopy would likely be the only possible
assignment.

The OS is capable of doing implicit Takeown (and presumably when you are
a member of the administrator group -- don't assume that unelevated
users like the LowBoy account I use for test on machines, would be able
to do this). The itsmine.cmd shows an explicit way of doing ownership,
but do not be applying this to the entire C: drive, or there will be
"severe tire wear" :-/

The itsmine.cmd file is two lines only:

takeown /f %1 /r /d y
icacls %1 /grant administrators:F /t

*******

When designing a "best practices" way of copying a friends
files, you have to be aware that the disk could be on its
last legs. Your first step is doing a low-stress forensic backup
without unintentionally overheating the drive (keeping it
in an insulated place with no airflow). A "dd.exe" run
can do this for you. If the "dd.exe" finishes, it means
there were no CRC errors during the run. If the drive were
to later croak on you and stop responding, the dd output file
is your copy of the goods.

A dd.exe copy can copy a dirty partition, a partition in
need of a chkdsk.

Since chkdsk /f is potentially destructive, you don't
run one of those, until you have your dd.exe disk image made.

I could add more steps, but you get the basic idea. You use
low stress methods that check for trouble and make a forensic
copy first. Then, if you have a "handling accident" while working,
your goose is not cooked, and you have alternatives.

Rather than change the recipes you are comfortable with, I
would add steps for insurance purposes.

Most of the time chkdsk /f is safe. But it can and has
completely and utterly destroyed a partition, so as your
insurance agent, I would say to you "you could use some insurance".

Paul
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 15/03/2026 9:56 am, micky wrote:

In alt.comp.os.windows-11, on Sat, 14 Mar 2026 22:56:33 +0100, "Carlos
E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2026-03-14 17:25, micky wrote:

I went to visit a friend in NJ and someone in his family brought up
Google Docs, and recommended it for him I thought the major feature of
Google Docs was that files were stored in the cloud but the wikip
article doesn't even mention that (or barely if I missed it).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Docs

Okay "while collaborating with users in real-time." implies that it's
online, at least during editing.

Doesn't one have to learn at least a few things about google docs to use >>> it. My friend, 83 yo, can learn new things, but doesn't really want to.

IIRC he hasn't wanted to for 10 or 20 years, so it's not just that he's
old now.

If someone only works at home or at work or when he takes his laptop
with him, and when none of that is true, he wants to be "on vacation"
and free of computer chores, there is no point to google docs, is there?

I use google docs solely for one purpose: documents that I want to
access on my phone. Like a spreadsheet of car expenses. I also access
the same docs on the computer.

I thought that's the sort of thing it was good for.

Once I used a text document, a list of things to do, me in Europe, my
cousin in Canada. It was curious when we both were writing, we could
chat using it.

You can export the file to local storage, too.

For normal usage on the computer, I use Libre Office alone.

I've been copying my friend's old hard drive to a flash drive and his
own files are mostly .docx . I think that is the default for Word, but
I don't know if his new computer includes Word. If he has to buy it, he won't be happy. Maybe he will switch to Libreoffice.

I rarely care if something looks nice, but when I do, I use Libreoffice
too.

Not a pending problem, just FYI: I've copied about 35,000 files that he wrote, he downloaded, or which have a user extension, and every one of
35,000 copied fine on the first try except the only two .doc files,
which, strangely enough, worked fine when I clicked on them on his
harddrive (which I removed from the laptop with the broken screen). (He
wrote those two files too, with the same name, found in a directory and
its sub-directory, only 4 short lines long.)
I am curious what would make a file NOT copy with XXCopy (which I
think uses Xcopy for the actual copy step), whether or not it could
actually be read, especially since it could be read with no problem.

My thoughts about using Google Docs would centre around the fact that
once Google has your Docs, Google HAS your Docs.

Mind you, that's just MY assumption (and you know what they say about
people who ASSUME!!).
--
Daniel70
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

In alt.comp.os.windows-10 micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

I've been copying my friend's old hard drive to a flash drive...

Not a pending problem, just FYI: I've copied about 35,000 files that he wrote, he downloaded, or which have a user extension, and every one of
35,000 copied fine on the first try except the only two .doc files,
which, strangely enough, worked fine when I clicked on them on his
harddrive (which I removed from the laptop with the broken screen)...

What was the flash drive formatted with? My guess would be copying from
NTFS to FAT, and finding different restrictions between them. There's a
pile of file naming issues that can confuse tools (are you comfortable
sharing file names?)

- M
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

In alt.comp.os.windows-11, on Sun, 15 Mar 2026 18:07:29 -0000 (UTC),
malxau <invalid@invalid.net> wrote:

In alt.comp.os.windows-10 micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

I've been copying my friend's old hard drive to a flash drive...

Not a pending problem, just FYI: I've copied about 35,000 files that he
wrote, he downloaded, or which have a user extension, and every one of
35,000 copied fine on the first try except the only two .doc files,
which, strangely enough, worked fine when I clicked on them on his
harddrive (which I removed from the laptop with the broken screen)...

What was the flash drive formatted with? My guess would be copying from
NTFS to FAT,

You're right!

and finding different restrictions between them. There's a
pile of file naming issues that can confuse tools (are you comfortable >sharing file names?)

The two files in the source drive are
"F:\06_04_2019\..Parsha & P sheets\B'raishees.doc" and
"F:\06_04_2019\..Parsha & P sheets\5777\B'raishees.doc"

Both of them are 26,112 bytes but when opened, Libreffice counts 105 characters. Talk about overhead!!

Both contain an apostrophe??, but he has a bunch of other files that
copied fine whose names also have an apostrophe (the same one? Does it matter?). He also has a bunch of .docx files in that subdirectory that
all got copied.

FWIW, these two have the same date and time, to the minute

I presume the dots are in the folder name so it will sort first.



YOu can ignore the next paragraph. I realize I was not copying Hidden
or System files and the file below is both. I almost always use /clone
that copies all files, but for these copies I did not and the default is
not to copy hidden or system files. Do I need to go back and get
them...I don't think he needs them and I doubt there are any others.
I see there was a third .doc file,with a time one minute later,
Hidden and System, that didn't get copied and didn't get an error
either. That is, XXCopy did't try to copy it!!
"F:\06_04_2019\..Parsha & P sheets\5777\~$raishees.doc"
It doesn't like the tilde? Or the dollar sign? It doesn't like that
LO would later say that it is corrupt? Would XCopy have this problem
or did the author of XXCopy introduce it. (Kan Yabumoto. He died at a
fairly young age, or I would ask him.) NONE OF THESE. It's a hidden
file.
LIbreoffice says about it: The file '~$raishees.doc' is corrupt and therefore cannot be opened. LibreOffice can try to repair the file.
The corruption could be the result of document manipulation or of
structural document damage due to data transmission.
We recommend that you do not trust the content of the repaired document. Execution of macros is disabled for this document.
Should LibreOffice repair the file?

I say Yes, but: The file '~$raishees.doc' could not be repaired and
therefore cannot be opened.
The file itself couldn't be important. It was proably some temp file
for a file that is only 105 bytes long.

- M

--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

In alt.comp.os.windows-11, on Sun, 15 Mar 2026 18:07:29 -0000 (UTC),
malxau <invalid@invalid.net> wrote:

In alt.comp.os.windows-10 micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

I've been copying my friend's old hard drive to a flash drive...

Not a pending problem, just FYI: I've copied about 35,000 files that he
wrote, he downloaded, or which have a user extension, and every one of
35,000 copied fine on the first try except the only two .doc files,
which, strangely enough, worked fine when I clicked on them on his
harddrive (which I removed from the laptop with the broken screen)...

What was the flash drive formatted with? My guess would be copying from
NTFS to FAT,

You're right!

and finding different restrictions between them. There's a
pile of file naming issues that can confuse tools (are you comfortable >sharing file names?)

The two files in the source drive are
"F:\06_04_2019\..Parsha & P sheets\B'raishees.doc" and
"F:\06_04_2019\..Parsha & P sheets\5777\B'raishees.doc"

Both of them are 26,112 bytes but when opened, Libreffice counts 105 characters. Talk about overhead!!

Both contain an apostrophe??, but he has a bunch of other files that
copied fine whose names also have an apostrophe (the same one? Does it matter?). He also has a bunch of .docx files in that subdirectory that
all got copied.

FWIW, these two have the same date and time, to the minute

I presume the dots are in the folder name so it will sort first.



YOu can ignore the next paragraph. I realize I was not copying Hidden
or System files and the file below is both. I almost always use /clone
that copies all files, but for these copies I did not and the default is
not to copy hidden or system files. Do I need to go back and get
them...I don't think he needs them and I doubt there are any others.
I see there was a third .doc file,with a time one minute later,
Hidden and System, that didn't get copied and didn't get an error
either. That is, XXCopy did't try to copy it!!
"F:\06_04_2019\..Parsha & P sheets\5777\~$raishees.doc"
It doesn't like the tilde? Or the dollar sign? It doesn't like that
LO would later say that it is corrupt? Would XCopy have this problem
or did the author of XXCopy introduce it. (Kan Yabumoto. He died at a
fairly young age, or I would ask him.) NONE OF THESE. It's a hidden
file.
LIbreoffice says about it: The file '~$raishees.doc' is corrupt and therefore cannot be opened. LibreOffice can try to repair the file.
The corruption could be the result of document manipulation or of
structural document damage due to data transmission.
We recommend that you do not trust the content of the repaired document. Execution of macros is disabled for this document.
Should LibreOffice repair the file?

I say Yes, but: The file '~$raishees.doc' could not be repaired and
therefore cannot be opened.
The file itself couldn't be important. It was proably some temp file
for a file that is only 105 bytes long.

- M

--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

In alt.comp.os.windows-11, on Sun, 15 Mar 2026 22:46:01 +1100, Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

My thoughts about using Google Docs would centre around the fact that
once Google has your Docs, Google HAS your Docs.

I think it was a grandchild who suggested google docs. They are too
young to be suspicious. Until after something goes wrong.

Mind you, that's just MY assumption (and you know what they say about
people who ASSUME!!).

Yes, I do.

--
Daniel70

--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 03/15/2026 3:34 PM, micky wrote:

In alt.comp.os.windows-11, on Sun, 15 Mar 2026 22:46:01 +1100, Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

My thoughts about using Google Docs would centre around the fact that
once Google has your Docs, Google HAS your Docs.

I think it was a grandchild who suggested google docs. They are too
young to be suspicious. Until after something goes wrong.

Mind you, that's just MY assumption (and you know what they say about
people who ASSUME!!).

Yes, I do.

--
Daniel70

I would second the previously made suggestion of the free Libre Office.

In my experience it is completely compatible with MS office documents.

It is simpler to use than both MS Office and Google Docs. I takes a
lot to save a Google doc to your personal drive. If you send a
document to some one, you have to do a lot of playing with the file to
be able to read it. (I only use Google Docs if my grandson send one to me.)

The menu of Libreoffice is a lot easier to use that the labyrinth that
MS calls a menu. With Libreoffice, if you search for the function it
shows you where the function is located in the menu. With MS Office it
gives you an active link to the functions. Great for one time use, but
the searching becomes burdensome in you are using the function all in
the document
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 3/15/2026 3:53 PM, knuttle wrote:

The menu of Libreoffice is a lot easier to use that the labyrinth that
MS calls a menu.  With Libreoffice, if you search for the function it
shows you where the function is located in the menu.  With MS Office it gives you an active link to the functions.  Great for one time use, but
the searching becomes burdensome in you are using the function all in
the document

it should be right at the top of the list if your category selected is
"Most Recently Used"
--
Science Doesn’t Support Darwin. Scientists Do

--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 16/03/2026 7:53 am, knuttle wrote:

On 03/15/2026 3:34 PM, micky wrote:

In alt.comp.os.windows-11, on Sun, 15 Mar 2026 22:46:01 +1100, Daniel70
<daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

My thoughts about using Google Docs would centre around the fact that
once Google has your Docs, Google HAS your Docs.

I think it was a grandchild who suggested google docs.  They are too
young to be suspicious.   Until after something goes wrong.

Mind you, that's just MY assumption (and you know what they say about
people who ASSUME!!).

Yes, I do.

I would second the previously made suggestion of the free Libre Office.

In my experience it is completely compatible with MS office documents.

.... as long as you alter the saved documents trailing bit. LibreOffice
wants to save its documents as something like 'Document.odt' or some such.
--
Daniel70
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

knuttle <keith_nuttle@yahoo.com> wrote:

On 03/15/2026 3:34 PM, micky wrote:

In alt.comp.os.windows-11, on Sun, 15 Mar 2026 22:46:01 +1100, Daniel70
<daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

My thoughts about using Google Docs would centre around the fact that
once Google has your Docs, Google HAS your Docs.

I think it was a grandchild who suggested google docs. They are too
young to be suspicious. Until after something goes wrong.

Mind you, that's just MY assumption (and you know what they say about
people who ASSUME!!).

Yes, I do.

--
Daniel70

I would second the previously made suggestion of the free Libre Office.

In my experience it is completely compatible with MS office documents.

Only the simplest text documents or spreadsheets. Any special formatting is difficult to maintain between office and libreoffice. Excel macros often
don't work at all.

Powerpoint compatibility is just terrible.

It is simpler to use than both MS Office and Google Docs. I takes a
lot to save a Google doc to your personal drive. If you send a
document to some one, you have to do a lot of playing with the file to
be able to read it. (I only use Google Docs if my grandson send one to me.)

Obviously, using an unfamiliar system may seem complicated especially if
you force it to work in not the best way.

Googledocs aren't meant to be "sent" to people, but rather shared via
google. No saving nor playing required. The permissions can be a bit
fiddly, mind.

If you do want to save the file then you can save it as native Libre Office format pretty simply. Not sure what you mean by "lots of playing".

The menu of Libreoffice is a lot easier to use that the labyrinth that
MS calls a menu. With Libreoffice, if you search for the function it
shows you where the function is located in the menu. With MS Office it gives you an active link to the functions. Great for one time use, but
the searching becomes burdensome in you are using the function all in
the document

--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 2026/3/17 10:34:2, Chris wrote:

knuttle <keith_nuttle@yahoo.com> wrote:

[]

I would second the previously made suggestion of the free Libre Office.

In my experience it is completely compatible with MS office documents.

Only the simplest text documents or spreadsheets. Any special formatting is difficult to maintain between office and libreoffice. Excel macros often don't work at all.

Powerpoint compatibility is just terrible.

It is simpler to use than both MS Office and Google Docs. I takes a
lot to save a Google doc to your personal drive. If you send a
document to some one, you have to do a lot of playing with the file to
be able to read it. (I only use Google Docs if my grandson send one to me.)

Obviously, using an unfamiliar system may seem complicated especially if
you force it to work in not the best way.

Agreed; trying to use something other than what you're used to always
seems other than simple. I have "muscle memory" for Word 2003 and
earlier - meaning I can do things without thinking of how I do them.
Even the change to the "ribbon" interface in Word (2007 on I think)
confuses me, let alone trying LibreOffice or any of the alternatives. (I
think of .doc as a de fact standard [I've certainly not encountered any
real case where .docx, or any other format, would actually give me
something extra I'd actually use] - YMMV.)

Googledocs aren't meant to be "sent" to people, but rather shared via
google. No saving nor playing required. The permissions can be a bit
fiddly, mind.

If you do want to save the file then you can save it as native Libre Office format pretty simply. Not sure what you mean by "lots of playing".

The menu of Libreoffice is a lot easier to use that the labyrinth that
MS calls a menu. With Libreoffice, if you search for the function it
shows you where the function is located in the menu. With MS Office it
gives you an active link to the functions. Great for one time use, but
the searching becomes burdensome in you are using the function all in
the document

That does sound a better design. (Though for anything other than simple
things like "bold", you have to hope that the "help" creator anticipated
the term you might search for, such as "alignment" rather than
"justification" or vice versa.)


--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Where [other presenters] tackle the world with a box of watercolours,
he takes a spanner. - David Butcher (on Guy Martin), RT 2015/1/31-2/6
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

In alt.comp.os.windows-11, on Sun, 15 Mar 2026 16:53:59 -0400, knuttle <keith_nuttle@yahoo.com> wrote:

On 03/15/2026 3:34 PM, micky wrote:

In alt.comp.os.windows-11, on Sun, 15 Mar 2026 22:46:01 +1100, Daniel70
<daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

My thoughts about using Google Docs would centre around the fact that
once Google has your Docs, Google HAS your Docs.

I think it was a grandchild who suggested google docs. They are too
young to be suspicious. Until after something goes wrong.

Mind you, that's just MY assumption (and you know what they say about
people who ASSUME!!).

Yes, I do.

--
Daniel70

I would second the previously made suggestion of the free Libre Office.

In my experience it is completely compatible with MS office documents.

When it asks me if I want to save a document as .odt or .docx, I'm not
sure what to do If I leave it as .odt will the person I send it to who
only has Word be able to read an .odt? With no special efforts on his
part, just click on it?

Becasue I was not sure the answer above is Yes, I've saving files as
.docx or .doc, whatever LO suggest in that box, but then it warns me
that special features from LO may not be carried over. I don't use
special features, except maybe Bold and colored tex. These seem old and
pretty basic. Surely these would be carried over to MS Office, right???

It is simpler to use than both MS Office and Google Docs. I takes a
lot to save a Google doc to your personal drive. If you send a
document to some one, you have to do a lot of playing with the file to
be able to read it. (I only use Google Docs if my grandson send one to me.)

The menu of Libreoffice is a lot easier to use that the labyrinth that
MS calls a menu. With Libreoffice, if you search for the function it
shows you where the function is located in the menu. With MS Office it

I'll have to check that out. I really should use LO more often instead
of notepad or ++. Plus-plus has a really wierd method of new lines, paragraphs, etc.

gives you an active link to the functions. Great for one time use, but
the searching becomes burdensome in you are using the function all in
the document

--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 2026/3/18 19:39:57, micky wrote:
[]

When it asks me if I want to save a document as .odt or .docx, I'm not
sure what to do If I leave it as .odt will the person I send it to who
only has Word be able to read an .odt? With no special efforts on his
part, just click on it?

I would always save as .doc; that can be read by old versions of Word,
new versions of Word, LibreOffice, and most other WPs (not sure about WordPerfect, if that still exists).

Becasue I was not sure the answer above is Yes, I've saving files as
.docx or .doc, whatever LO suggest in that box, but then it warns me
that special features from LO may not be carried over. I don't use
special features, except maybe Bold and colored tex. These seem old and pretty basic. Surely these would be carried over to MS Office, right???

Bold and coloured text have been part of anything other than plain text
editors for decades - I'm pretty sure they're there in Wordpad, even
Write (from Windows 3.x).

I have used WPs that not only tell you that certain features may be
lost, but actually tell you which ones in the current document they are.
At least, I think I have. But even if not, I think it's unlikely you
_are_ using any such facilities without knowing.
[]

I'll have to check that out. I really should use LO more often instead
of notepad or ++. Plus-plus has a really wierd method of new lines, paragraphs, etc.

notepad (with one or two +s) is really intended for plain text, or maybe
source code (where the + ones can pre-colour certain aspects of many
common programming languages); they're not really appropriate for word-processing, e. g. with fonts that have variable-width characters
(e. g. i narrow, w wide). Equally, I _wouldn't_ use Word (or LO, Write, WordPad, WordPerfect, ...) for such "documents" (texts).
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Never make the same mistake twice...there are so many new ones to make!
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On Wed, 3/18/2026 3:39 PM, micky wrote:

In alt.comp.os.windows-11, on Sun, 15 Mar 2026 16:53:59 -0400, knuttle <keith_nuttle@yahoo.com> wrote:

On 03/15/2026 3:34 PM, micky wrote:

In alt.comp.os.windows-11, on Sun, 15 Mar 2026 22:46:01 +1100, Daniel70
<daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

My thoughts about using Google Docs would centre around the fact that
once Google has your Docs, Google HAS your Docs.

I think it was a grandchild who suggested google docs. They are too
young to be suspicious. Until after something goes wrong.

Mind you, that's just MY assumption (and you know what they say about
people who ASSUME!!).

Yes, I do.

--
Daniel70

I would second the previously made suggestion of the free Libre Office.

In my experience it is completely compatible with MS office documents.

When it asks me if I want to save a document as .odt or .docx, I'm not
sure what to do If I leave it as .odt will the person I send it to who
only has Word be able to read an .odt? With no special efforts on his
part, just click on it?

Becasue I was not sure the answer above is Yes, I've saving files as
.docx or .doc, whatever LO suggest in that box, but then it warns me
that special features from LO may not be carried over. I don't use
special features, except maybe Bold and colored tex. These seem old and pretty basic. Surely these would be carried over to MS Office, right???

It is simpler to use than both MS Office and Google Docs. I takes a
lot to save a Google doc to your personal drive. If you send a
document to some one, you have to do a lot of playing with the file to
be able to read it. (I only use Google Docs if my grandson send one to me.) >>
The menu of Libreoffice is a lot easier to use that the labyrinth that
MS calls a menu. With Libreoffice, if you search for the function it
shows you where the function is located in the menu. With MS Office it

I'll have to check that out. I really should use LO more often instead
of notepad or ++. Plus-plus has a really wierd method of new lines, paragraphs, etc.

gives you an active link to the functions. Great for one time use, but
the searching becomes burdensome in you are using the function all in
the document

Microsoft offers some comparisons between .odt and .docx

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/differences-between-the-opendocument-text-odt-format-and-the-word-docx-format-d9d51a92-56d1-4794-8b68-5efb57aebfdc

For the communications part of documents (formatted text, inserted images)
it shouldn't make much difference if you are writing "marketing documents"
to send to a client.

It's only if you get super-fancy, that you're likely to get caught in
one of the little traps.

If you are writing book style documents, five hundred pages with a
lot of generated metadata (TOC, Appendix, Blbliography), you might run
into a rough edge or two.

But if you were communicating with John and his .doc capability,
then you would avoid showing off your desktop publishing prowess
and just stick with basics.

For the tool we used at work, you could construct things that
would cause pain for other tools, and that is why some of
those sorts of documents were called "benchmarks" by their
creator. Our IT department could break just about anything.

Paul
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

On 2026/3/18 19:39:57, micky wrote:
[]

When it asks me if I want to save a document as .odt or .docx, I'm not
sure what to do If I leave it as .odt will the person I send it to who
only has Word be able to read an .odt? With no special efforts on his
part, just click on it?

I would always save as .doc; that can be read by old versions of Word,
new versions of Word, LibreOffice, and most other WPs (not sure about WordPerfect, if that still exists).

I wouldn't. .doc is a dead proprietary format that has been reverse
engineered. There's no guarantee of interoperability between different versions. Plus it can be vector for malware . Microsoft, for example, is dropping support for it.

.docx is an open standard which is readable by pretty much all applications that need to.

--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

In alt.comp.os.windows-11, on Sun, 15 Mar 2026 16:53:59 -0400, knuttle <keith_nuttle@yahoo.com> wrote:

On 03/15/2026 3:34 PM, micky wrote:

In alt.comp.os.windows-11, on Sun, 15 Mar 2026 22:46:01 +1100, Daniel70
<daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

My thoughts about using Google Docs would centre around the fact that
once Google has your Docs, Google HAS your Docs.

I think it was a grandchild who suggested google docs. They are too
young to be suspicious. Until after something goes wrong.

Mind you, that's just MY assumption (and you know what they say about
people who ASSUME!!).

Yes, I do.

--
Daniel70

I would second the previously made suggestion of the free Libre Office.

In my experience it is completely compatible with MS office documents.

When it asks me if I want to save a document as .odt or .docx, I'm not
sure what to do If I leave it as .odt will the person I send it to who
only has Word be able to read an .odt? With no special efforts on his
part, just click on it?

In theory, newer versions of Word can read .odt format files.

Becasue I was not sure the answer above is Yes, I've saving files as
.docx or .doc, whatever LO suggest in that box, but then it warns me
that special features from LO may not be carried over. I don't use
special features, except maybe Bold and colored tex. These seem old and pretty basic. Surely these would be carried over to MS Office, right???

Yes. Don't worry about that. You can set LO to save files as .docx by
default if you want.

--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On Thu, 3/19/2026 3:51 AM, Chris wrote:

J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

On 2026/3/18 19:39:57, micky wrote:
[]

When it asks me if I want to save a document as .odt or .docx, I'm not
sure what to do If I leave it as .odt will the person I send it to who
only has Word be able to read an .odt? With no special efforts on his
part, just click on it?

I would always save as .doc; that can be read by old versions of Word,
new versions of Word, LibreOffice, and most other WPs (not sure about
WordPerfect, if that still exists).

I wouldn't. .doc is a dead proprietary format that has been reverse engineered. There's no guarantee of interoperability between different versions. Plus it can be vector for malware . Microsoft, for example, is dropping support for it.

.docx is an open standard which is readable by pretty much all applications that need to.

There are two five hundred page documents that cover office.

One of them was used by Sun Microsystems, to build the framework
for opening Office documents. LibreOffice fork, continues with
the "fleshing out" of the <cough> "minor details". That's why
the document opening step worked at all, in the FOSS side of
the ecosystem. That wasn't reverse engineering. There's a document.

If you know what the attack surface is on a document type
(executable macros), you can shut that off. Even a PDF
document contains an attack surface, and one of the first
things you do when installing Reader is you shut that off.

It's the source of a document that matters as much as
the attack surfaces or potential attack surfaces.

How a .docx differs, is it uses a ZIP container for
a series of files. But the one file that contains
the DTP core of the document, that and the .doc need
to have similar information inside. That doesn't mean
that the documents are "divergent on intent". They do
the same things, and plus or minus, there's no reason
for the content portion of .doc and .docx to be different.

Microsoft seldom removes attack surfaces, no matter
what the consequences. Notice how widgets appeared,
disappeared, and appeared again. Once they get an idea
in their heads, it can take "basic exhaustion" of an
idea, to get rid of it again. Common sense won't remove it :-)

Paul


--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 2026/3/19 7:51:25, Chris wrote:

J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

On 2026/3/18 19:39:57, micky wrote:
[]

When it asks me if I want to save a document as .odt or .docx, I'm not
sure what to do If I leave it as .odt will the person I send it to who
only has Word be able to read an .odt? With no special efforts on his
part, just click on it?

I would always save as .doc; that can be read by old versions of Word,
new versions of Word, LibreOffice, and most other WPs (not sure about
WordPerfect, if that still exists).

I wouldn't. .doc is a dead proprietary format that has been reverse engineered. There's no guarantee of interoperability between different versions. Plus it can be vector for malware . Microsoft, for example, is dropping support for it.

Oh, typical Microsoft.

.docx is an open standard which is readable by pretty much all applications that need to.

Except older versions of Word. Yes, there are patches (now harder to
find) for at least Word/Office 2003 (not sure about earlier) that will
let them read (not sure about save) the *x versions.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Mike Jackson |\ _,,,---,,_
and Squeak /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Shame there's no snooze button
[1998] |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'- on a cat who wants breakfast
zzz '---''(_/--' `-'\_)
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

On 2026/3/19 7:51:25, Chris wrote:

J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

On 2026/3/18 19:39:57, micky wrote:
[]

When it asks me if I want to save a document as .odt or .docx, I'm not >>>> sure what to do If I leave it as .odt will the person I send it to who >>>> only has Word be able to read an .odt? With no special efforts on his >>>> part, just click on it?

I would always save as .doc; that can be read by old versions of Word,
new versions of Word, LibreOffice, and most other WPs (not sure about
WordPerfect, if that still exists).

I wouldn't. .doc is a dead proprietary format that has been reverse
engineered. There's no guarantee of interoperability between different
versions. Plus it can be vector for malware . Microsoft, for example, is
dropping support for it.

Oh, typical Microsoft.

It's quite funny because in order to read older word docs you need to use Libreoffice.

.docx is an open standard which is readable by pretty much all applications >> that need to.

Except older versions of Word. Yes, there are patches (now harder to
find) for at least Word/Office 2003 (not sure about earlier) that will
let them read (not sure about save) the *x versions.

You can't expect legacy software to be forwards compatible with standards
that post date them.

As I said above just use LibreOffice. Why bother with such an old version
of word at all?

--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

On Thu, 3/19/2026 3:51 AM, Chris wrote:

J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

On 2026/3/18 19:39:57, micky wrote:
[]

When it asks me if I want to save a document as .odt or .docx, I'm not >>>> sure what to do If I leave it as .odt will the person I send it to who >>>> only has Word be able to read an .odt? With no special efforts on his >>>> part, just click on it?

I would always save as .doc; that can be read by old versions of Word,
new versions of Word, LibreOffice, and most other WPs (not sure about
WordPerfect, if that still exists).

I wouldn't. .doc is a dead proprietary format that has been reverse
engineered. There's no guarantee of interoperability between different
versions. Plus it can be vector for malware . Microsoft, for example, is
dropping support for it.

.docx is an open standard which is readable by pretty much all applications >> that need to.

There are two five hundred page documents that cover office.

One of them was used by Sun Microsystems, to build the framework
for opening Office documents. LibreOffice fork, continues with
the "fleshing out" of the <cough> "minor details". That's why
the document opening step worked at all, in the FOSS side of
the ecosystem. That wasn't reverse engineering. There's a document.

Not everything was documented. Some things were incorporated as opaque
binary blobs, which handled arbitrarily. Round-tripping a file via
openoffice sometimes meant those things disappeared. Think things like mathematical formula objects.

If you know what the attack surface is on a document type
(executable macros), you can shut that off.

That's a big if. Legacy code can be dropped over time and the attack vector reopens.

That's why Microsoft are dropping .doc; they don't want the overhead of maintaining an unnecessary and potentially risky capability.

Even a PDF

document contains an attack surface, and one of the first
things you do when installing Reader is you shut that off.

It's the source of a document that matters as much as
the attack surfaces or potential attack surfaces.

How a .docx differs, is it uses a ZIP container for
a series of files. But the one file that contains
the DTP core of the document, that and the .doc need
to have similar information inside. That doesn't mean
that the documents are "divergent on intent". They do
the same things, and plus or minus, there's no reason
for the content portion of .doc and .docx to be different.

Microsoft seldom removes attack surfaces, no matter
what the consequences. Notice how widgets appeared,
disappeared, and appeared again. Once they get an idea
in their heads, it can take "basic exhaustion" of an
idea, to get rid of it again. Common sense won't remove it :-)

Paul

--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 2026/3/19 15:0:4, Chris wrote:

J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

On 2026/3/19 7:51:25, Chris wrote:

[]

versions. Plus it can be vector for malware . Microsoft, for example, is >>> dropping support for it.

Oh, typical Microsoft.

It's quite funny because in order to read older word docs you need to use Libreoffice.

Or, old word :-)

.docx is an open standard which is readable by pretty much all applications >>> that need to.

Except older versions of Word. Yes, there are patches (now harder to
find) for at least Word/Office 2003 (not sure about earlier) that will
let them read (not sure about save) the *x versions.

You can't expect legacy software to be forwards compatible with standards that post date them.

I don't (though the *x reader patches _are_ useful). I don't _expect_
anything at all; what I'd _like_ is _backwards_ compatibility. I do
accept progress - just; I wonder what proportion of .docx/.odt/whatever documents currently being produced actually _use_ anything that wasn't
in .doc .

As I said above just use LibreOffice. Why bother with such an old version
of word at all?

Because I'm used to it. I drove a car that operates on
suck-squeeze-bang-blow (is that called the Otto cycle?) that's a century
or more old; sure, it has lots of modern things that have been added to
it, but ... seriously, I _don't_ expect modern users to stick with (what
to them are) ancient standards, I just wish _more_ attention could be
paid to backwards compatibility - or, at least, less carelessness in the introduction of new features. But I know it'll never be; just call me a dinosaur.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Cumulatively, however, they do get my goat, on my wick and up my nose,
to the extent I am angry enough to stick a wick up a goat's nose and to
hell with the consequences. - Eddie Mair, RT 2016/2/27-3/4
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2