From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

I love the banter between the dozen or so people that make up most of
these chats, but it seriously clutters up comp.os.linux.misc and alt.comp.os.windows-11 to the point that they are practically unusable
for the technical questions that they are supposed to serve, and for
which I also do occasionally need them.

I *really* wish people would move all the wildly off-topic chatter to alt.unix.geeks *as soon as they go off-topic. I also with they would
change the subject line when the follow-up becomes completely unrelated
to what the subject line says.

If you don't know how to do it:

Start a followup. Change the subject line to what you want it to be.
Add a "Followup-To: alt.unix.geeks" header.

I occasionally try to move a thread over, but usually I don't find such
a thread until 20+ messages down, and by then it seems to be too late to
move it, because it has already split into 5 or more branches.
--
Lars Poulsen - the old geek who found alt.unix.geeks, and hopes to
revive it
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

[Followup to alt.unix.geeks ignored.]

Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> wrote:

I love the banter between the dozen or so people that make up most of
these chats, but it seriously clutters up comp.os.linux.misc and alt.comp.os.windows-11 to the point that they are practically unusable
for the technical questions that they are supposed to serve, and for
which I also do occasionally need them.

I *really* wish people would move all the wildly off-topic chatter to alt.unix.geeks *as soon as they go off-topic. I also with they would
change the subject line when the follow-up becomes completely unrelated
to what the subject line says.

I think it's not logical if Windows users, who are a part of said
audience, have to move to a Unix group.

Anyway, moving threads to another group hardly ever - if ever - works.

I think it would be better to just mark the offending (sub-)threads
with the standard '[OT]' tag at the start of the Subject: line.

If you don't know how to do it:

Start a followup. Change the subject line to what you want it to be.
Add a "Followup-To: alt.unix.geeks" header.

And *say* that you did that!

I occasionally try to move a thread over, but usually I don't find such
a thread until 20+ messages down, and by then it seems to be too late to move it, because it has already split into 5 or more branches.

I don't think either of the above methods will work, because it needs
more discipline than most users are willing (able?) to practice.

FWIW, I 'just' filter the stuff, by (part) of the Subject, Newsgroups,
From, etc., etc., often with a timed filter, so that I don't lose the 'offending' posters in on-topic threads.

BTW, now we're 'complaining', *my* pet peeve is people quoting endless cumulative sections of previous text - often tens and tens to some
hundred lines - without commenting on the text they quote and then
adding only a few lines of new text.
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

[snip]

BTW, now we're 'complaining', *my* pet peeve is people quoting endless cumulative sections of previous text - often tens and tens to some
hundred lines - without commenting on the text they quote and then
adding only a few lines of new text.

Serious undersnippage, which I find much worse than top-posting.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"They laughed at Einstein. They laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they
also laughed at Bozo the Clown." -- Carl Sagan (1934-1996)
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 4/3/26 5:31 AM, Lars Poulsen wrote:

I love the banter between the dozen or so people that make up most of
these chats, but it seriously clutters up comp.os.linux.misc and >alt.comp.os.windows-11 to the point that they are practically unusable
for the technical questions that they are supposed to serve, and for
which I also do occasionally need them.

I *really* wish people would move all the wildly off-topic chatter to >alt.unix.geeks *as soon as they go off-topic. I also with they would
change the subject line when the follow-up becomes completely unrelated
to what the subject line says.

If you don't know how to do it:

Start a followup. Change the subject line to what you want it to be.
Add a "Followup-To: alt.unix.geeks" header.

I occasionally try to move a thread over, but usually I don't find such
a thread until 20+ messages down, and by then it seems to be too late to >move it, because it has already split into 5 or more branches.

I only monitor 2 groups, Windows and Android, and both have been a bit dead
recently. IMO any discussion in these groups is better than no discussion
(a dead group). Perhaps label it OT to make it semi-legal? Anyway Lars,
thanks for the OT post...


--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 4/3/2026 8:31 PM, Lars Poulsen wrote:

I *really* wish people would move all the wildly off-topic chatter to alt.unix.geeks *as soon as they go off-topic. I also with they would
change the subject line when the follow-up becomes completely unrelated
to what the subject line says.

New comers will not know about alt.unix.geeks, and instead head to Linux advocacy groups. Even old-timers might forget. :)
--

@~@ Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
/ v \ May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
/( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
^ ^ https://github.com/changmw/changmw
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 2026-04-03, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

BTW, now we're 'complaining', *my* pet peeve is people quoting endless cumulative sections of previous text - often tens and tens to some
hundred lines - without commenting on the text they quote and then
adding only a few lines of new text.

And then using that as a justification for top-posting. Grrr...
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 4/3/26 12:05, Mark Lloyd wrote:

[snip]

BTW, now we're 'complaining', *my* pet peeve is people quoting endless
cumulative sections of previous text - often tens and tens to some
hundred lines - without commenting on the text they quote and then
adding only a few lines of new text.

Serious undersnippage, which I find much worse than top-posting.

But if you DO trim then the OP will scream about
you undermining their "context", what they see as
relevant info :-)

Sorry, no pleasing everyone.

--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11


{Note Followups-To} ==== means ====> do not post on comp.os.linux.misc
or alt.comp.os.windows-1*

On 2026-04-03 18:28, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:

On 4/3/2026 8:31 PM, Lars Poulsen wrote:

I *really* wish people would move all the wildly off-topic chatter to
alt.unix.geeks *as soon as they go off-topic. I also with they would
change the subject line when the follow-up becomes completely unrelated
to what the subject line says.

New comers will not know about alt.unix.geeks, and instead head to Linux advocacy groups. Even old-timers might forget. :)

Not if you do what I just did
--
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:

On 4/3/26 12:05, Mark Lloyd wrote:

[snip]

BTW, now we're 'complaining', *my* pet peeve is people quoting endless >> cumulative sections of previous text - often tens and tens to some
hundred lines - without commenting on the text they quote and then
adding only a few lines of new text.

Serious undersnippage, which I find much worse than top-posting.

But if you DO trim then the OP will scream about
you undermining their "context", what they see as
relevant info :-)

Note that I was (mostly) complaining about *cumulative* quotes, often
many levels 'deep'.

As to people screaming about snipping relevant info: Yes, that kind of snipping happens and IME is often intentional and hence dishonest. A
dead giveaway is often that they don't mark what they snipped, resulting
in misrepresenation and lying by ommision.

I always use snip marks ('[...]') and as you can see, Mark did the
same.

Moral: One *can* behave responsibly and honestly on Usenet.

Sorry, no pleasing everyone.

But one can please (the majority of) the Good Guys and Girls.
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 4/3/26 14:29, Frank Slootweg wrote:

c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:

On 4/3/26 12:05, Mark Lloyd wrote:

[snip]

BTW, now we're 'complaining', *my* pet peeve is people quoting endless >>>> cumulative sections of previous text - often tens and tens to some
hundred lines - without commenting on the text they quote and then
adding only a few lines of new text.

Serious undersnippage, which I find much worse than top-posting.

But if you DO trim then the OP will scream about
you undermining their "context", what they see as
relevant info :-)

Note that I was (mostly) complaining about *cumulative* quotes, often
many levels 'deep'.

As to people screaming about snipping relevant info: Yes, that kind of snipping happens and IME is often intentional and hence dishonest. A
dead giveaway is often that they don't mark what they snipped, resulting
in misrepresenation and lying by ommision.

I always use snip marks ('[...]') and as you can see, Mark did the
same.

Moral: One *can* behave responsibly and honestly on Usenet.

Sorry, no pleasing everyone.

But one can please (the majority of) the Good Guys and Girls.

I don't post often, but when I do I quote the portion I am replying to.
In this case, all of the above ;-)

Rinaldi
--
Cogito, ergo dubito
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 2026-04-03 16:45, Frank Slootweg wrote:

[Followup to alt.unix.geeks ignored.]

Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> wrote:

I love the banter between the dozen or so people that make up most of
these chats, but it seriously clutters up comp.os.linux.misc and
alt.comp.os.windows-11 to the point that they are practically unusable
for the technical questions that they are supposed to serve, and for
which I also do occasionally need them.

I *really* wish people would move all the wildly off-topic chatter to
alt.unix.geeks *as soon as they go off-topic. I also with they would
change the subject line when the follow-up becomes completely unrelated
to what the subject line says.

I think it's not logical if Windows users, who are a part of said audience, have to move to a Unix group.

It is an empty group, there were no messages there for years. Just a convenient place by agreement, instead of creating a new group.

Anyway, moving threads to another group hardly ever - if ever - works.

It does, albeit slowly :-)

...
--
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

In comp.os.linux.misc Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2026-04-03 16:45, Frank Slootweg wrote:

[Followup to alt.unix.geeks ignored.]
Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> wrote:

I love the banter between the dozen or so people that make up most of
these chats, but it seriously clutters up comp.os.linux.misc and
alt.comp.os.windows-11 to the point that they are practically unusable
for the technical questions that they are supposed to serve, and for
which I also do occasionally need them.

I *really* wish people would move all the wildly off-topic chatter to
alt.unix.geeks *as soon as they go off-topic. I also with they would
change the subject line when the follow-up becomes completely unrelated
to what the subject line says.

I think it's not logical if Windows users, who are a part of said
audience, have to move to a Unix group.

It is an empty group, there were no messages there for years. Just a convenient place by agreement, instead of creating a new group.

The sad thing is occasionally I peek into the huge threads in comp.os.linux.misc that I start always marking as read once
they go too OT, and discover about 500 posts down people have
actually started talking about something I'm interested in. Often
I'm subscribed to a group dedicated to that topic which has been
dead for years, but here people _are_ talking about it in a place
I'm unlikely to find, and where I won't reply because it only
commits me to wading through hundreds more OT posts later to find
the responses (plus it's just contributing to the problem for other
people).

At least it would be more organised if such talk was separated from
Linux questions, but it'd be real nice if people actually started
using groups relevent to the topics again. A hopeless dream, I
know.

Anyway, moving threads to another group hardly ever - if ever - works.

It does, albeit slowly :-)

Although cross-posts from comp.os.linux.misc to the Linux advocacy
group a little while back only added a whole lot more noise coming
back in the other direction for a time, from my perspective. At
least an empty group is low-risk for that, although expecting
Windows 11 users to post to a Unix group seems like quite a
stretch.
--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

AJL wrote:

I only monitor 2 groups, Windows and Android, and both have been a bit dead
recently.

I also monitor misc.phone.mobile.iphone, but what we do when it's a bit off topic for iOS is use comp.sys.mac.advocacy (much like the Linux advocacy
group, I suspect, although I don't monitor the linux advocay group myself).

Note that it's off topic for iOS but we use mac advocacy becuase it's Apple
but there is no ios advocacy group (that I know of) but there are
mac-specific groups such as comp.sys.mac.system & comp.sys.mac.apps too.

Carlos E.R. wrote:

New comers will not know about alt.unix.geeks, and instead head to Linux
advocacy groups. Even old-timers might forget. :)

Not if you do what I just did

Newsgroups: alt.unix.geeks,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-11
--
On Usenet, old men with vast experience voluntarily share that knowledge.
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 2026-04-03, Frank Slootweg wrote:

[Followup to alt.unix.geeks ignored.]

Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> wrote:

I love the banter between the dozen or so people that make up most of
these chats, but it seriously clutters up comp.os.linux.misc and
alt.comp.os.windows-11 to the point that they are practically unusable
for the technical questions that they are supposed to serve, and for
which I also do occasionally need them.

I *really* wish people would move all the wildly off-topic chatter to
alt.unix.geeks *as soon as they go off-topic. I also with they would
change the subject line when the follow-up becomes completely unrelated
to what the subject line says.

I think it's not logical if Windows users, who are a part of said
audience, have to move to a Unix group.

I can't help but recall that Windows NT does (or at least did) come out
of the box with a partial POSIX subsystem :-P
--
Nuno Silva
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 3 Apr 2026 14:45:38 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
wrote:

[Followup to alt.unix.geeks ignored.]

<<snipped>>

pee

<<snipped>>

Yeah, and then there's those who don't quote enough of the previous
post, or who don't quote *any* of it so you have to retrieve it,
sometimes using their Headers to find out *which* post their reply is
referring to.

Then they rant on and on for aeons. Or, even worse, make extremely
short, terse, curt comments that mean absolutely nothing without
context.

That's bad, too.

Also, "top posters". Top posters are just evil.

But, as I said in a.c.o.win-10, I'm not commenting any more. So I
never said that. :)

J.
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 4/04/2026 8:16 am, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:

In comp.os.linux.misc Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2026-04-03 16:45, Frank Slootweg wrote:

<Snip>

I think it's not logical if Windows users, who are a part of said
audience, have to move to a Unix group.

It is an empty group, there were no messages there for years. Just a
convenient place by agreement, instead of creating a new group.

The sad thing is occasionally I peek into the huge threads in comp.os.linux.misc that I start always marking as read once
they go too OT, and discover about 500 posts down people have
actually started talking about something I'm interested in. Often
I'm subscribed to a group dedicated to that topic which has been
dead for years, but here people _are_ talking about it in a place
I'm unlikely to find, and where I won't reply because it only
commits me to wading through hundreds more OT posts later to find
the responses (plus it's just contributing to the problem for other
people).

At least it would be more organised if such talk was separated from
Linux questions, but it'd be real nice if people actually started
using groups relevent to the topics again. A hopeless dream, I
know.

"A hopeless dream' .... as long as no one tries to MAKE IT happen!!

Sure, you're NOT everyone's keeper but you ARE one persons keeper!!
--
Daniel70
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 4/04/2026 7:54 pm, John wrote:

On 3 Apr 2026 14:45:38 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
wrote:

[Followup to alt.unix.geeks ignored.]

<<snipped>>

pee

<<snipped>>

Yeah, and then there's those who don't quote enough of the previous
post, or who don't quote *any* of it so you have to retrieve it,
sometimes using their Headers to find out *which* post their reply
is referring to.

Then they rant on and on for aeons. Or, even worse, make extremely
short, terse, curt comments that mean absolutely nothing without
context.

That's bad, too.

Also, "top posters". Top posters are just evil.

But, as I said in a.c.o.win-10, I'm not commenting any more. So I
never said that. :)

Ah!! Well, then it will not matter if I snip the lot, then!! ;-P
--
Daniel70
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 04/04/2026 11:12, Daniel70 wrote:

At least it would be more organised if such talk was separated from
Linux questions, but it'd be real nice if people actually started
using groups relevent to the topics again. A hopeless dream, I
know.

"A hopeless dream' .... as long as no one tries to MAKE IT happen!!

Sure, you're NOT everyone's keeper but you ARE one persons keeper!!

In my 40 years of Usenet, the number of people who have tried to make it
match their wants by forcing other people to amend their behaviour,
rather than just getting on with life comfortably exceeds those whose
posts are so rubbish I have to killfile them, or the thread.

Let's face it mostly of you have a problem its more likely to be solved
by a web search than positing here.

It's random chat by linux geeks. Get used it it or move on.
--
Renewable energy: Expensive solutions that don't work to a problem that doesn't exist instituted by self legalising protection rackets that
don't protect, masquerading as public servants who don't serve the public.


--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 2026-04-03 11:10, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

On 2026-04-03, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

BTW, now we're 'complaining', *my* pet peeve is people quoting endless
cumulative sections of previous text - often tens and tens to some
hundred lines - without commenting on the text they quote and then
adding only a few lines of new text.

And then using that as a justification for top-posting. Grrr...

TBH, it depends a lot on which newsreader you are using.
ThunderBird makes it easy, /slrn/ makes it next to impossible.

--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

Nuno Silva wrote:

I can't help but recall that Windows NT does (or at least did) come out
of the box with a partial POSIX subsystem :-P

Partial being the operative word ...

<https://youtu.be/BOeku3hDzrM>

--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> wrote:

On 2026-04-03 11:10, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

On 2026-04-03, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

BTW, now we're 'complaining', *my* pet peeve is people quoting endless >> cumulative sections of previous text - often tens and tens to some
hundred lines - without commenting on the text they quote and then
adding only a few lines of new text.

And then using that as a justification for top-posting. Grrr...

TBH, it depends a lot on which newsreader you are using.
ThunderBird makes it easy, /slrn/ makes it next to impossible.

It doesn't matter if it's easy/easier or hard for the multitude of
(human) readers, the *poster* should spent the effort to make it easy
for *all* readers. Why should umpteen readers suffer, just because a
poster (i.e. *one* person) can't be bothered to do the right thing?
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:

On 3 Apr 2026 14:45:38 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
wrote:

[Followup to alt.unix.geeks ignored.]

<<snipped>>

pee

<<snipped>>

Yeah, and then there's those who don't quote enough of the previous
post, or who don't quote *any* of it so you have to retrieve it,
sometimes using their Headers to find out *which* post their reply is referring to.

Well, those people should get a *real* newsreader! :-)

BTW, I didn't know that Forte Agent doesn't have a 'go to parent'
function! In my newsreader (tin), I just press 'u' (up the thread) to
display the parent post.

[...]

Also, "top posters". Top posters are just evil.

As has been mentioned, *bottom* posters are the most evil of them all.

But, as I said in a.c.o.win-10, I'm not commenting any more. So I
never said that. :)

Of course you didn't.
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

In article <10qrd58.1dig.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>,
Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> wrote:

On 2026-04-03 11:10, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

On 2026-04-03, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

BTW, now we're 'complaining', *my* pet peeve is people quoting endless >> >> cumulative sections of previous text - often tens and tens to some
hundred lines - without commenting on the text they quote and then
adding only a few lines of new text.

And then using that as a justification for top-posting. Grrr...

TBH, it depends a lot on which newsreader you are using.

Just to clarify, the "it" in the previous sentence is referring to the
practice of not top posting.

And yes, most "modern" (and/or GUI) newsreaders default to MS style (i.e.,
top posting).

ThunderBird makes it easy, /slrn/ makes it next to impossible.

This surprises me. I'd have thought exactly the opposite would be true,
but I've never used either one.

It doesn't matter if it's easy/easier or hard for the multitude of
(human) readers, the *poster* should spent the effort to make it easy
for *all* readers. Why should umpteen readers suffer, just because a
poster (i.e. *one* person) can't be bothered to do the right thing?

I think you lost the thread here. I don't see how the previous poster's
words could be interpreted as having to do with the ease of reading.

Of course, we are talking about the ease of posting. And, of course, if software makes it difficult (or impossible) to do something, users of that software will shy away from (and not make any effort to correct the
problem) using that functionality. It is just the way the world works.
--
The randomly chosen signature file that would have appeared here is more than 4 lines long. As such, it violates one or more Usenet RFCs. In order to remain in compliance with said RFCs, the actual sig can be found at the following URL:
http://user.xmission.com/~gazelle/Sigs/Pedantic
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 2026-04-04, Kenny McCormack <gazelle@shell.xmission.com> wrote:

In article <10qrd58.1dig.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>,
Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> wrote:

On 2026-04-03 11:10, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

On 2026-04-03, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

BTW, now we're 'complaining', *my* pet peeve is people quoting endless
cumulative sections of previous text - often tens and tens to some
hundred lines - without commenting on the text they quote and then
adding only a few lines of new text.

And then using that as a justification for top-posting. Grrr...

TBH, it depends a lot on which newsreader you are using.

Just to clarify, the "it" in the previous sentence is referring to the practice of not top posting.

And yes, most "modern" (and/or GUI) newsreaders default to MS style (i.e., top posting).

ThunderBird makes it easy, /slrn/ makes it next to impossible.

This surprises me. I'd have thought exactly the opposite would be true,
but I've never used either one.

In the slrn.rc(configuration) file, this will set the cursor at the
bottom of messages... set editor_command "vim -c %d '%s'"
Next to impossible ;)

It doesn't matter if it's easy/easier or hard for the multitude of >>(human) readers, the *poster* should spent the effort to make it easy
for *all* readers. Why should umpteen readers suffer, just because a
poster (i.e. *one* person) can't be bothered to do the right thing?

I think you lost the thread here. I don't see how the previous poster's words could be interpreted as having to do with the ease of reading.

Of course, we are talking about the ease of posting. And, of course, if software makes it difficult (or impossible) to do something, users of that software will shy away from (and not make any effort to correct the
problem) using that functionality. It is just the way the world works.

--
End Transmission
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11


Restoring groups.

On 2026-04-04 16:19, Frank Slootweg wrote:

John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:

On 3 Apr 2026 14:45:38 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
wrote:

[Followup to alt.unix.geeks ignored.]

<<snipped>>

pee

<<snipped>>

Yeah, and then there's those who don't quote enough of the previous
post, or who don't quote *any* of it so you have to retrieve it,
sometimes using their Headers to find out *which* post their reply is
referring to.

Well, those people should get a *real* newsreader! :-)

BTW, I didn't know that Forte Agent doesn't have a 'go to parent' function! In my newsreader (tin), I just press 'u' (up the thread) to
display the parent post.

Thunderbird doesn't have a button or key to do that. You have to
visually find it in threaded mode. And if the thread is big, it is
impossible (the lines are out of the window). You have to examine post
by post, going backwards.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

Carlos E.R. wrote:

Frank Slootweg wrote:

I didn't know that Forte Agent doesn't have a 'go to parent'
function! In my newsreader (tin), I just press 'u' (up the thread) to
display the parent post.

Thunderbird doesn't have a button or key to do that. You have to
visually find it in threaded mode. And if the thread is big, it is impossible (the lines are out of the window). You have to examine post
by post, going backwards.

There *is* a way ...

If you have Compact Headers add-on, you need to expand the twisty, so
you can see the References: header

Then click the rightmost reference link, which is always the parent.

--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 4 Apr 2026 14:19:23 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

[snip]

Also, "top posters". Top posters are just evil.

As has been mentioned, *bottom* posters are the most evil of them all.

The WORST being bottom-posters who don't snip, requiring the reader to
scroll down several hundred lines to find ANY original material.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

Christianity is not a religion; it's an industry.
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On Sat, 4 Apr 2026 05:55:07 -0700, Lars Poulsen wrote:

On 2026-04-03 11:10, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

On 2026-04-03, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

BTW, now we're 'complaining', *my* pet peeve is people quoting
endless
cumulative sections of previous text - often tens and tens to some
hundred lines - without commenting on the text they quote and then
adding only a few lines of new text.

And then using that as a justification for top-posting. Grrr...

TBH, it depends a lot on which newsreader you are using. ThunderBird
makes it easy, /slrn/ makes it next to impossible.

When I use slrn the editor is gVim. G puts you at the bottom of the page.
Next to impossible?
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> wrote:

On 4 Apr 2026 14:19:23 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

[snip]

Also, "top posters". Top posters are just evil.

As has been mentioned, *bottom* posters are the most evil of them all.

The WORST being bottom-posters who don't snip, requiring the reader to scroll down several hundred lines to find ANY original material.

Yes, that's what's commonly considered to be bottom posters, people
who do not snip at all and who post only at the bottom of very long
quoted text.

And when one criticizes that bad behaviour, they say it's easy to jump
over the quoted text - which indeed some pagers can do -, but they
'forget' that the (human) reader can't possibly know if (s)he should
jump to the end of the quoted text or page through it, looking for
interspersed new test. I.e., they assume that others are as ill-mannered
as they are, so there's no problem! :-(
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11



On 4/4/26 09:52, Carlos E.R. wrote:

Restoring groups.

On 2026-04-04 16:19, Frank Slootweg wrote:

John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:

On 3 Apr 2026 14:45:38 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
wrote:

[Followup to alt.unix.geeks ignored.]

<<snipped>>

pee

<<snipped>>

  Yeah, and then there's those who don't quote enough of the previous
post, or who don't quote *any* of it so you have to retrieve it,
sometimes using their Headers to find out *which* post their reply is
referring to.

   Well, those people should get a *real* newsreader! :-)

   BTW, I didn't know that Forte Agent doesn't have a 'go to parent'
function! In my newsreader (tin), I just press 'u' (up the thread) to
display the parent post.

Thunderbird doesn't have a button or key to do that. You have to
visually find it in threaded mode. And if the thread is big, it is impossible (the lines are out of the window). You have to examine post
by post, going backwards.

I had a problem the other night with Tb and an overly long thread.
I shut off the 'return to previous session' choice in my Desktop Manager
and that fixed it very well. Then having fixed the problem I turned it
back on after rebooting.

It is very big PIA and I hope that Thunderbird coders to which it was reported by its own software can fix it.

bliss- Dell Precision 7730- PCLOS 2026.03- Linux 6.12.80 pclos1- KDE
Plasma 6.6.3
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 2026-04-04 19:10, Andy Burns wrote:

Carlos E.R. wrote:

Frank Slootweg wrote:

I didn't know that Forte Agent doesn't have a 'go to parent'
function! In my newsreader (tin), I just press 'u' (up the thread) to
display the parent post.

Thunderbird doesn't have a button or key to do that. You have to
visually find it in threaded mode. And if the thread is big, it is
impossible (the lines are out of the window). You have to examine post
by post, going backwards.

There *is* a way ...

If you have Compact Headers add-on, you need to expand the twisty, so
you can see the References: header

Then click the rightmost reference link, which is always the parent.

Ah.


Alt-View-Headers → All.

In your message, there is an "In reply to" header. Click on it.

Or "References", show all, go to the last one, click on it.


Always learning new things... :-)
--
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> writes:

The WORST being bottom-posters who don't snip, requiring the reader to scroll down several hundred lines to find ANY original material.

Generally, if I don't see any fresh input in the first two screenfuls of
text, I press n to move to the next article.
Anybody worth reading don't quote two screenfuls before commenting it.
--
Jukka Lahtinen
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 2026-04-04 08:57, Adison Vohn Caterson wrote:

On 2026-04-04, Kenny McCormack <gazelle@shell.xmission.com> wrote:

In article <10qrd58.1dig.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>,
Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> wrote:

On 2026-04-03 11:10, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

On 2026-04-03, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

BTW, now we're 'complaining', *my* pet peeve is people quoting endless
cumulative sections of previous text - often tens and tens to some >>>>>> hundred lines - without commenting on the text they quote and then >>>>>> adding only a few lines of new text.

And then using that as a justification for top-posting. Grrr...

TBH, it depends a lot on which newsreader you are using.

Just to clarify, the "it" in the previous sentence is referring to the
practice of not top posting.

And yes, most "modern" (and/or GUI) newsreaders default to MS style (i.e., >> top posting).

ThunderBird makes it easy, /slrn/ makes it next to impossible.

This surprises me. I'd have thought exactly the opposite would be true,
but I've never used either one.

In the slrn.rc(configuration) file, this will set the cursor at the
bottom of messages... set editor_command "vim -c %d '%s'"
Next to impossible ;)

It doesn't matter if it's easy/easier or hard for the multitude of
(human) readers, the *poster* should spent the effort to make it easy
for *all* readers. Why should umpteen readers suffer, just because a
poster (i.e. *one* person) can't be bothered to do the right thing?

I think you lost the thread here. I don't see how the previous poster's
words could be interpreted as having to do with the ease of reading.

Of course, we are talking about the ease of posting. And, of course, if
software makes it difficult (or impossible) to do something, users of that >> software will shy away from (and not make any effort to correct the
problem) using that functionality. It is just the way the world works.

My testimony was not addressing the ease of top-posting versus bottom-
posting, but the ease of looking up an earlier post in the thread if
that level of "previous" had been snipped.

/slrn/ (because it runs on a TTY socket) does not allow you to click
through via a "References: " header, nor indeed via *any* embedded URL.

The second of these can be remedied via the features of the terminal
program on the user end (highlight, copy and then paste into a browser
address line) but the "References:" has no easy solution.

I was using /slrn/ for a long time, because I wanted to be able to read
News from desktop PCs at several different locations (using SSH to get
into my Linux desktop). I have now resigned myself to only read when I
am at my desktop at home.
--
Lars Poulsen - an old geek in Santa Barbara, California
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On Sat, 4 Apr 2026 14:00:54 -0700, Lars Poulsen wrote:

I was using /slrn/ for a long time, because I wanted to be able to
read News from desktop PCs at several different locations (using SSH
to get into my Linux desktop). I have now resigned myself to only
read when I am at my desktop at home.

Other possibilities would be screen/tmux (for remote non-GUI access)
or VNC or RDP (for remote GUI access) or like that.
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 2026-04-04 23:00, Lars Poulsen wrote:

On 2026-04-04 08:57, Adison Vohn Caterson wrote:

On 2026-04-04, Kenny McCormack <gazelle@shell.xmission.com> wrote:

My testimony was not addressing the ease of top-posting versus bottom- posting, but the ease of looking up an earlier post in the thread if
that level of "previous" had been snipped.

/slrn/ (because it runs on a TTY socket) does not allow you to click
through via a "References: " header, nor indeed via *any* embedded URL.

Terminal clients like Alpine allow "clicking" on an URL (actually,
pressing [enter] on it), and then call a terminal web browser to display it.

The second of these can be remedied via the features of the terminal
program on the user end (highlight, copy and then paste into a browser address line) but the "References:" has no easy solution.

I was using /slrn/ for a long time, because I wanted to be able to read
News from desktop PCs at several different locations (using SSH to get
into my Linux desktop). I have now resigned myself to only read when I
am at my desktop at home.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 2026-04-05, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2026-04-04 23:00, Lars Poulsen wrote:

On 2026-04-04 08:57, Adison Vohn Caterson wrote:

On 2026-04-04, Kenny McCormack <gazelle@shell.xmission.com> wrote:

My testimony was not addressing the ease of top-posting versus bottom-
posting, but the ease of looking up an earlier post in the thread if
that level of "previous" had been snipped.

/slrn/ (because it runs on a TTY socket) does not allow you to click
through via a "References: " header, nor indeed via *any* embedded
URL.

Terminal clients like Alpine allow "clicking" on an URL (actually,
pressing [enter] on it), and then call a terminal web browser to
display it.

The second of these can be remedied via the features of the terminal
program on the user end (highlight, copy and then paste into a
browser address line) but the "References:" has no easy solution.

I was using /slrn/ for a long time, because I wanted to be able to
read News from desktop PCs at several different locations (using SSH
to get into my Linux desktop). I have now resigned myself to only
read when I am at my desktop at home.

GNU Emacs (which might not be desirable, as I see people were discussing
other text editor(s)) does have the advantage it could run both under
X11 and a terminal or terminal emulator, meaning you could get X11
features locally or over X11 forwarding and at the same time be able to
use it in a tty-like device; also server-mode makes it easier to open
separate Emacs instances all on the same "Emacs session".
--
Nuno Silva
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

On 5/04/2026 1:19 am, Frank Slootweg wrote:

John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:

On 3 Apr 2026 14:45:38 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
wrote:

[Followup to alt.unix.geeks ignored.]

<<snipped>>

pee

<<snipped>>

Yeah, and then there's those who don't quote enough of the previous
post, or who don't quote *any* of it so you have to retrieve it,
sometimes using their Headers to find out *which* post their reply is
referring to.

Well, those people should get a *real* newsreader! :-)

BTW, I didn't know that Forte Agent doesn't have a 'go to parent' function! In my newsreader (tin), I just press 'u' (up the thread) to
display the parent post.

[...]

Also, "top posters". Top posters are just evil.

As has been mentioned, *bottom* posters are the most evil of them all.

Sorry! WHAT?? "top posters" are just evil!! But "bottom posters" are the
most evil!! .... so "interspersed posters" should be *most correct* .
And that *IS* what you do when you bottom post .... as long as you've
got nothing to say about the upper portions of the post!! ;-)
--
Daniel70
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

On 5/04/2026 1:19 am, Frank Slootweg wrote:

John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:

On 3 Apr 2026 14:45:38 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
wrote:

[...]

Also, "top posters". Top posters are just evil.

As has been mentioned, *bottom* posters are the most evil of them all.

Sorry! WHAT?? "top posters" are just evil!! But "bottom posters" are the most evil!! .... so "interspersed posters" should be *most correct* .
And that *IS* what you do when you bottom post .... as long as you've
got nothing to say about the upper portions of the post!! ;-)

*If* "you've got nothing to say about the upper portions of the post",
you should *snip* those portions (unless they are relevant as context
for the part which you are responding to).

And the context of my comment is essential: John (intentionally and humorously) snipped my:


BTW, now we're 'complaining', *my* pet peeve is people quoting endless cumulative sections of previous text - often tens and tens to some
hundred lines - without commenting on the text they quote and then
adding only a few lines of new text.
</me>

So it's about bottom posting below "endless cumulative sections of
previous text - often tens and tens to some hundred lines...". *That*
kind of bottomposting is "the most evil of them all".
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

[Newsgroups restored. Sigh! No, not your fault, Jukka.]

Jukka Lahtinen <jtfjdehf@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote:

Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> writes:

The WORST being bottom-posters who don't snip, requiring the reader to scroll down several hundred lines to find ANY original material.

Generally, if I don't see any fresh input in the first two screenfuls of text, I press n to move to the next article.
Anybody worth reading don't quote two screenfuls before commenting it.

Well, alt.comp.os.windows-11 has several posters "worth reading", who
rather regularly commit said offense, while they *do* know The Right Way
(TM), because they often do it that way.
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> wrote:
[...]

My testimony was not addressing the ease of top-posting versus bottom- posting, but the ease of looking up an earlier post in the thread if
that level of "previous" had been snipped.

/slrn/ (because it runs on a TTY socket) does not allow you to click
through via a "References: " header, nor indeed via *any* embedded URL.

Doesn't slrn have a (keyboard key) *command* to display the parent
article?

In my newsreader - tin -, I just press the 'u' key ('u'p the thread)
to display the parent article. (I would be surprised if slrn doesn't
offer similar functionality.)

The second of these can be remedied via the features of the terminal
program on the user end (highlight, copy and then paste into a browser address line) but the "References:" has no easy solution.

As a workaround/hack, you could append the message-id from the
References; header to https://newsgrouper.org/ in your brwowser, i.e.
for your article:

https://newsgrouper.org/<10qru66$v684$2@dont-email.me>

which your browser will turn into:

https://newsgrouper.org/%3C10qru66$v684$2@dont-email.me%3E

N.B. newsgrouper.org is an alternative for the no longer functioning
(or at least not functioning very well) http://al.howardknight.net/
site.

I was using /slrn/ for a long time, because I wanted to be able to read
News from desktop PCs at several different locations (using SSH to get
into my Linux desktop). I have now resigned myself to only read when I
am at my desktop at home.

--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

[ moving this to alt.unix.geeks ]

On 2026-04-04 15:17, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

On Sat, 4 Apr 2026 14:00:54 -0700, Lars Poulsen wrote:

I was using /slrn/ for a long time, because I wanted to be able to
read News from desktop PCs at several different locations (using SSH
to get into my Linux desktop). I have now resigned myself to only
read when I am at my desktop at home.

Other possibilities would be screen/tmux (for remote non-GUI access)
or VNC or RDP (for remote GUI access) or like that.

Thank you all for "revealing" the "u" (upstream) keystroke.
I still find Thunderbird much nicer to work with; despite the difficulty
of getting to an identical newsreader from 3 different desktops.

I used to share the Linux box's desktop with TigerVNC. It worked well
for years, but broke (actually disappeared) around the time of a version upgrade that turned into a re-install on new hardware; I think this was related to the X11-to-Wayland transition, but when re-installing
TigerVNC server, it no longer generated the systemd service module
template, and I have not had the patience to track down what the new
best way to share the desktop. It may well be that RDP is the way to go nowadays. Is there an easy "howto" for getting that up both on Linux
(Fedora) and Windows-11? Does Windows Home edition have an RDP client?
A server? Or is that strictly a Pro feature?
--
Lars Poulsen - an old geek in Santa Barbara, California
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11

In article <10qu6td$1i99t$1@dont-email.me>,
Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> wrote:
...

I used to share the Linux box's desktop with TigerVNC. It worked well
for years, but broke (actually disappeared) around the time of a version >upgrade that turned into a re-install on new hardware; I think this was >related to the X11-to-Wayland transition, but when re-installing
TigerVNC server, it no longer generated the systemd service module
template, and I have not had the patience to track down what the new
best way to share the desktop.

The easiest thing to do is just to switch the server box back to X11.
(Assuming you have the necessary privs and authority to do so)

Over in Raspberry Pi Land, there is lots of wailing and gnashing of teeth
over this issue, with Wayland breaking pretty much everything. One of the first things people noticed is that VNC no longer worked, but that was
quickly fixed by somebody putting together a WayVNC server. You might
check to see if that is available in your Linux environment.

I would not bother with RDP - that's an MS thing.
--
"We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be
white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides."

- Saint Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556) Founder of the Jesuit Order -
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-11


You are expecting everyone to be able to read your mind!!! 🙂

Setup a guidance website to preach about these hints! And make sure that everyone knows about that website.
--

@~@ Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
/ v \ May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
/( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
^ ^ https://github.com/changmw/changmw
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2